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SUSTAIN????


GRAMMY

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What is the basic process if i want a big sustain,i have a fender strato,,,,,a marshall amp,,,,,,,effects,,,,,,i need a specific compressor,,,,,,,,,,teell me what are different processes at home and in the studio,

 

THANKS GUYS :P:wave:

NI SI,,,,,NI NO,,,,,,SINO TODO LO CONTRARIO...............
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Yeah, sheer volume will make your guitar sympathetically feed back some, and lots of gain will also contribute to sustain. But, you are also right that a compressor can help you there.

 

Work a note with fretting-hand vibrato, and/or the whammy-bar (the "tremolo"). This will help a note sustain, too.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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First of all- what gear do you have now GRAMMY? Maybe someone could help you with your existing setup if you share with us.

 

My Formula for Sustain

-Hot tube amp cranked up (preferably THD Univalve through a Marshall JTM) - guitar - guitar cord - pick and you should be able to get about as much sustain as you want.

 

If you can't go that route, a compressor will probably do it for you. The PodXT can yield a nice "processed" sustain, also.

 

It's probably gonna sound strange, but my best sustaining guitar IMO is the Les Paul with P-90's. You just gotta be careful with P-90's because a few inches of distance from the amp makes all the difference between "Sustain" and "Feedback". Man, if you whale on a power chord that guitar will go on for minutes- literally.

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Seriously, I wouldn't recommend a compressor to get sustain.

 

A hot tube amp will yeild plenty of sustain but you will still need to work on your technique to get the most out of it. Caevan had some good suggestions. A compressor will be too easy and may become a crutch - you never want to rely on a particular peice of gear to get your sound.

 

Carlos Santana and Jeff Beck both get tons of sustain without the aid of compressors.

"You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer
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Originally posted by Gabriel E.:

you never want to rely on a particular peice of gear to get your sound.

True, but sometimes you just need to use something. I mean, you wouldn't deny slide players their fave tools, would ya? It's the abundance of tools available for the guitar that continues to make it one of the most popular instruments around. Yeah, I agree with folks when sometimes too many tools can be a crutch, but sometimes the right ones do help.

 

On that note, check out these video demos for the Sustainer. Especially notable is the one where Steve Hunter does a clean toned run with a 7 string. Beautiful.

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Thank you guys,,,,,,i play guitar 6 years continoulsy when i began at 14,i;m 25,,,,,,,i;m post-pro engineer and i agree with you,,,,,th guitar,,the gauge of the strings and the amp contribute to the sustain,i mean like carlos santana or the solo in nothing else matters metallica,,,,i want to have a big sustain ,not a feedback,,,,,this is acomplished with a great guitar only?,,,,,,i have a strato and a VALVESTATE MARSHALL AMP,,,,,with the disto of it,in lead solos i don;t have the sustain i need,,,,,i have prottols and many outboard comps,,,,,,,,i think there is not a magic sustainer,,,,i have to have another guitar isn;t it???????? THANK YOU GUYS
NI SI,,,,,NI NO,,,,,,SINO TODO LO CONTRARIO...............
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Not another guitar, another amp .

 

The Strat is fine (works for Beck). Problem is probably the Valvestate. My experience with those is that they are buzzy and thin sounding.

 

What you want is an all-tube amp that you can really crank up. This means something 50 watts or less.

 

Before you go out and buy a new amp though, you might try a distortion pedal. An Ibanez Tube Screamer or Pro Co Rat might help the amp along a bit.

"You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer
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Yeah, the Valvestate amps ain't all they're supposed to be.

 

I've been getting good sustain with nice low-volume feedback from a Squier Standard Stratocaster into a Fender Princeton Reverb II (with an old Lafayette 2x12 extension cab). Long as I'm standing reasonably close to the amp, it works great.

I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist.

 

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I said compressor because as an example 6 years ago,i see a dod sustainer,,,i play it in the store and i move the knobs and obviously i didn;t hear any sustain with a clean guitar,,,,,right know i think there was an autocompressor,,,,,,,,i'm talking about a sutain by itself,the resonance,not the feedback,,,,,as an example my problem is with 12 fret notes to 24 freets,,,, and in the first string i want big sustains,,,,,you answer me many questions guys,only i want to add these thoughts,,regards all :wave:
NI SI,,,,,NI NO,,,,,,SINO TODO LO CONTRARIO...............
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I think Caevan touched on the key issue: Finger pressure, working the note with vibrato. You can have all the gear in the world but if the note isn't ringing at the source there's nothing for it to work with.This is especially true in the higher registers where there is less energy stored in the shorter string legnth.

Try seeing how much sustain you can squeeze out of the guitar un-plugged - it all starts with the fingers.

J.

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Originally posted by Jamesian:

I think Caevan touched on the key issue: Finger pressure, working the note with vibrato. You can have all the gear in the world but if the note isn't ringing at the source there's nothing for it to work with.This is especially true in the higher registers where there is less energy stored in the shorter string legnth.

Try seeing how much sustain you can squeeze out of the guitar un-plugged - it all starts with the fingers.

J.

I certainly wouldn't dispute this. I just restrung my Ibanez RG560 today, and redid the action a little. You can't have the strings too low... yeah, I tried to get it shredder low with a set of .010's. Didn't work for me (too buzzy), though I did manage to lower it a bit from the high action I previously used, with just a hint of buzz when digging in with the chords, and get some relief in the neck. Not easy when the fretboard's got a 15 degree radius.

 

The natural sustain is present, so no problem there. Just made sure the pickups (esp. the single coils) weren't magnetically "choking" the sustain from notes played above the 12th fret.

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Tazzola, you've hit upon something there that should've been obvious to all of us: set-up!

 

If sustain is important to you, Grammy, then perhaps a little set-up adjustment is due.

 

I recommend a medium- to medium/low-action, with a slight amount of neck relief. (Very slight on a Strat, next to having the pickups too high, a bowed-neck is one of the most common and least often addressed problems with Strats; they need as straight of a neck as possible.) If you can hang with'em, go one "set" higher in gauge for your strings, and totally redo the intonation, action, and relief. If you've been using .009s, try .010s; if you've been using .010s, try .011s.

 

Make sure that your pickups are not too high, as the magnetic pole-pieces on Strat pickups can pull the vibrating string out of tune, and rob you of sustain.

 

Wrap a little bit of teflon tape, like plumbers use, over the threads of the tremolo arm, where it screws in; just enough to snug it up a bit, and keep it from rattling. Make sure all hardware is snug, but don't overtighten.

 

Crank it up, and get down with some soulfull vibrato! Also, the "feedback" that I mentioned before doesn't always sound like sirens and Jimi at Woodstock; when the guitar resonates with the amplified sound, the notes you play will sustain longer.

 

On that note, if your amp uses a 12AT7, 12AU7, or a 12AX7, etc. for the driver/phase-inverter before the output section, a "balanced" tube for this position can actually make a big difference in sustain and tone. These tubes use a dual-triode design- that is, they are like two tubes in one glass bottle- and in that particular application, using a tube that has been tested and found to be well balanced and matched between the two triodes inside will minimize phase cancelations that fight and kill sustain and tonal balance. See Myles Rose for more info on these.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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All of you have amazing replys,,i have to analyze them,,thanks all guys,,,,,i have a new idea around guitars,,,all of you open my mind,,sincerely thanks,,,,,,,It's right,,my forst string and above 12 frett decays a lot with only the humbucker tht is near the tremolo bridge,,,,,,,,as first place,,,i use .09 strong,,,what do you recommend,,,,,,,,a lot of solos,,,,metal kind :eek:
NI SI,,,,,NI NO,,,,,,SINO TODO LO CONTRARIO...............
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Grammy,

 

Since you were asking about compressors...

 

Let me offer the minority opinion... I often use my old dynacomp on electric and a dbx rackmount on acoustic.

 

The original MXR dynacomp is great as is the Ross and the Armstrong orange squeezer. For a new one, check out the Keeley. The clips sound great. For rackmounts, look at the RNC or any number of dbx models.

Roy

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My advice is to look at your setup in this order:

1) technique

2) guitar

3) amp

4) pedal(s)

 

I'm pretty sure that if you've been playing for 6 years that your technique is good, so take a look at your guitar. Is the action too low? Too high? Is there too much neck relief? Is the nut a problem? Are the saddles a problem? Are the pickups too high? Too low? Look at everything in the path of the strings.

 

I get plenty of sustain with .009's and solid state amps, so I'd suspect the guitar. Another thing to look at is the neck pocket of that Strat. Is it clean? Is it tight? Sawdust in the neck socket is a problem that will rob sustain, and so will a loose neck to body joint.

 

I seriously doubt that your amp is the culprit unless it just isn't working properly.

BlueStrat

a.k.a. "El Guapo" ;)

 

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I will tell you one thing: the guitar makes a huge difference. I was trying to get an Albert King sound where he hits one note and it sings (beginning of Stormy Monday w/SRV). I could not get my 63 Strat to do it no matter what I tried. I purchased an Epiphone Flying V Gibson 58 RI, Korina wood. That guitar will make the note sing like on the AK track, through any amp, or even without an amp. It sustains almost like a steel guitar.
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There's no telling what combination will give you sustain. My best sustaining rig was my Gretsch Tennessean through a cheap DOD 505 Distortion pedal into a brown tolex Fender Super (not reverb) Amp (man - I miss that amp! :freak: ). It was amazing what working the Bigsby on that guitar would do for sustaining feedback through that rig. Even without feedback power chords would go forever. :thu: I forgot to mention, high volume is also critical! :D

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Originally posted by GRAMMY:

What is the basic process if i want a big sustain,i have a fender strato,,,,,a marshall amp,,,,,,,effects,,,,,,i need a specific compressor,,,,,,,,,,teell me what are different processes at home and in the studio,

 

THANKS GUYS :P:wave:

I use a Les Paul for sustain. In the studio I have a bunch of old, old amps... 40s 50s and 60s low wattage Silvertones and Fenders mostly. Turn 'em up, and the Les Paul sustains for days. I have a strat, too, but basically I'm a Gibson guy. Still, no pedals needed. Then you really get the tone of the guitar and amp. No faking it with a pointy-headstock guitar and a cheap imitation amp.

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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For years I was after a sort of modified Carlos tone. The first time I found it was sticking an LPB-1 in front of a super twin, but that was a pain because I went through those little Electro Harmonix things like bic lighters.

 

I finally bought a Boogie Mark II and that was it! Just use a humbuck in the bridge on whatever guitar and you'll have sustain and control for days.

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It might help to clarify that there are several apects/means of acheiving sustain.

 

1) inherent instrument sustain. A flawed or poorly setup guitar will not sustain well (test unplugged).

 

2) Sustain via electronic feedback. Most amplifiers (all?) utilize feedback in their circuitry. I think this feedback is disproportionalely stronger at higher gain settings >> high gain = more sustain (generally), but with distortion.

 

If its clean sustain you want, then use a compressor or a cleanish pre-amp.

 

3) Sustain via acoustic feedback. When you crank your amp, it can produce enough acoustic energy to excite your strings, or even the body (acoustic bodies resonate easily, hence are susceptible to excessive acoustic feedback).

 

one problem with this approach is that loud volumes damage your ears and make stage balance more dificult (everyone else has to play louder). Another is that this feedback is dependent on numerous variables (room characteristics, amp type and placement, temp, humidity, what yer fretting at the moment, how and where you are holding your guitar, position of the planets, etc.), so getting consistent results can be dificult.

 

All apporaches are valid cuz people like what they like!

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