phaeton Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Okay. Some of you might notice my lack of participation on all the political threads, and the debates of pro-war/anti-war. Seems a lot of people have a lot to say and argue about this. I understand that. It's an important topic, and probably something that needs to be talked about. So I'll give my piece, whether it is welcome or not. This will soon drop off the first page, and that is ok, because hopefully i'll feel better just by having my say for now. I was born in the United States. I have lived here my whole life. Technically, i spose that would make me "an American". There are a lot of people that were born here, and lived thier whole lives here, and they are called "Americans" too. There are even some that were born in other countries and have come to live here. Some of them are now "Americans", sometimes with thier country of origin hyphenated into it, like "Mexican-Americans", or "British-Americans". George W. Bush was born in the United States and has lived here his whole life too. I guess we can call George W. Bush an "American". But I'm not George W. Bush, and George W. Bush is not me. I am not accountable for the actions of George W. Bush. Sure, in the United States (where i live) I, just like all the other "Americans" that i spoke about above, can cast a vote periodically to decide who they want to be the President. Whether I voted for George W. Bush, voted against George W. Bush, or didn't vote at all, still does not make me accountable for what he does or does not do. And besides, George W. Bush is only a figurehead of a giant Political Machine. We've got the Senate, we've got State and Local Governments. And even more importantly, we've got all these departments like the CIA, DOD, IRS, and other parts of government, like the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines. I'm sure i don't need to go over who controls who in this gig. But I have no control over any of them. Please do not judge me as a person, by the actions of The United States Government. Please do not judge me as a person, by what is carried out by The United States Armed Forces. Sure, there seems to be a lot of people in other countries (these are not "Americans") that are in a huge snit over the atrocities acted against them by The United States Government. Or at least this is what they say. Sorry, I wasn't there, so i don't know. There also seem to be a lot of people (we call them "Americans") in this country (where i live too) that also say The United States Government has done some pretty ugly stuff to people that live in other countries. Maybe they were there. I didn't ask, though. There's also a lot of people that say that is all wrong, and that many of these people in other countries are mislead by thier Governments (yes, other countries have them too, but they are different than The United States Government). Some will even say that those other governments, or those other people are very bad people and governments, and that they've done awful things to other people. Never been to those places, so i can't ask those people firsthand. Sorry. Then there's the Media in The United States. Some of it agrees with different points listed above, some of it disagrees. There's also media in other countries (yes, they have media too). Some of it agrees with the points above, some of it disagrees. Well... once again, I've never been to those places, I've never had an opportunity to ask those people in that Media if they were there either. Or how they found this out. Quite frankly, I don't know who to believe. I wish i knew, but i really don't. I'm actually a fairly intelligent person, or so i like to believe. I think i could decide who is right or who is wrong in all this, or maybe who is more right and who is more wrong. But "i can't tell who's real and who's fakin'.... everyone's just shoutin' out loud." I quoted that from some nice British guys who said that 32 years ago. But this is how i feel now. Here in The United States Of America. I can't make sense of what's going on, but if it is a bunch of bad stuff, i don't want to be part of it. I'm not up to speed on World Events. Some people might call me "Ignorant". And that is what I am. Some people might call me "Stupid", but i don't think that is what i am. I don't think i'm a bad person, either. I don't go out at night and bash mailboxes. I don't slash tires. I've never broken into someone's house and stolen anything. Or done anything to hurt someone on purpose. I've never gone to other countries and starved thier children. Or thrust American Pop Culture in thier faces. Or built a chemical plant that later blew up and killed almost an entire city. I've never built and sent rockets careening into populated areas. I've never flown a plane or helicopter over any distant lands and shot at anything. People say the United States Government has done these things, but i don't know. I wasn't there. It wasn't me who did it, or anyone that i've ever spoken to. I stay home at night. I surf the web. I play my guitar. I help people in a Linux Support Channel on IRC. When it snows, i help my landlady shovel the sidewalks, because she's in her 70s. I try to walk lightly in my second floor apartment, because i'm trying to be nice to the lady that lives below me. I keep my music turned down to a respectable level. I say "please" and "thankyou" when appropriate. I don't think i'm a bad person. My IRC channel is a global channel. Sometimes i do get to talk to people from other countries. A man in Canada said once: "It's funny watching you Capitalist Pigs run around like chickens with your heads cut off. I enjoyed your so-called `terrorist attack' last month. In my office, we watched those towers crash and burn live, and we cheered. You fuckers deserved everything you got." A man from France once said: "It is about time the Americans were shaken up. I hope this turns into a war for them, and i hope it is a long, bloody one with many of thier lives wasted in vain." A different man from Canada once said: "I'm very happy about what your ignorant oppression around the world has bought you." A man from United Arab Emerites once said: "You prance around the world causing suffering where you go. Eventually someone will sneak up behind you. A death to all your fathers, and a dread to all your children. Praise Allah." A man from Korea said: "Your time is over. Your Empire has caused enough sorrow, and it must be stopped. This is a taste of the bitterness we feel every day because of you." Most of this followed shortly after the date of 9/11/01. Some of it did not. I don't believe that all of the people in UAE feel like that man from UAE did. I don't believe that all of the people in Canada feel like those two men in Canada do. I don't believe that all the people in France feel the same way that man from France does. I don't believe that all the people in Korea feel the same way as that man from Korea did. But i've never been to those places, so i don't know for sure. I didn't ask these people if they've ever been to The United States, so i don't know if they have or not. But i also don't like to be judged by what the United States Government does. If the United States Government is doing nefarious things around the world, i am not proud about it. If the United States Government is causing unprovoked grief for other people, i am sorry. I don't know those people, and i do not wish them grief. I am proud of the good things that The United States of America stands for in the history books. But the history books are slanted, some people say. One-sided even. I am proud to be an "American" sometimes when i see the U.S. National Guard helping clean up after an earthquake in Mexico, or help put out brush fires in Australia. But some people say the Media is slanted. One-sided even. and...... Sometimes i'm apprehensive to admit where I am from, when I'm on IRC. I am tired of the debates it causes. I am not George W. Bush. I don't feel i should have to explain his actions. I don't feel i need to discuss what the United States Government is doing, because i am not The United States Government. I am very sorry when someone says people are dying in thier country because of the United States Government. I am also sorry that i didn't know about it. I have never been there. And I am not The United States Government. I once told one man that i did not care if people were dying in his country. This was a very wrong thing to say. This man told me i should care. I told this man that i could go get in my truck, and drive it headlong into the side of a train at 80mph. Even faster if i could, to ensure that i would die. So that i would give up my "most precious asset" as some people believe. I explained to this man that there isn't anyone in his country, or even in my country that will care if i died. This man said it was different, because "Americans" should die. I do not understand what he means by that. I think this is why some people call me "Stupid". Sometimes i am not proud to be an "American". Sometimes i am not happy that I am "Ignorant", or that i am "Stupid". Sometimes people say the three go hand-in-hand. I've never asked these people if they have ever been to The United States, so i don't know. This is America. Love it, or Leave it(tm). At least that is what some "Americans" in The United States say. Some of these people say that i am "UnAmerican". I will agree that sometimes i don't want to be an "American" anymore. But i don't know where else i would go. I don't know of other countries that are not The United States Of America that i would be welcome in. Sometimes i think about driving my truck into the side of a train. I thought about it most of the day today. And I thought about it yesterday too. I also thought about it some over this last weekend. I did not think about it last week, because instead i was thinking about razor blades. Part of the week i was thinking about a pipe bomb. But only "Sissy Americans" use razor blades, and only "Terrorists" use bombs, right? I am not a bad person. Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper . WWND? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addix Metzatricity Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Wow... I don't know what to say other than I'm glad I took the time to read it. "Bass isn't just for breakfast anymore..." http://www.mp3.com/Addix_Metzatricity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix_dup1 Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 As a rule, I don't reply to political threads. ...Until Now. This one deserves to stay on page one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stranger Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 :thu: :thu: Skip the violence and head straight to propoganda bombing!!! I keep telling everybody this is a war of information. The media cartel is working for the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_dont_fret Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 phaeton, I gotta hand it to you. That was a work of poetry. Publish that. Get it copyrighted (if our government will let you), and print out a bunch of copies and distribute them. That was truly beautiful, man. Many :thu: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Wow... ..I mean... wow. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 You know Phaeton, I think one of the [b]hardest[/b] things for a human being to do is just to say "I don't know", so I salute you for saying that and I'll say it myself "I don't know". I don't have enough information to make an intelligent decision, and I don't trust the sources of information that are available to me about a lot of things. I don't know. Great Post, Phaeton, you touched me, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosh Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 My respect! Boosh - Netherlands Fan, nu pissar jag taggtråd igen. Jag skulle inte satt på räpan. http://www.bushcollectors.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymar Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 quote: [b]This is America. Love it, or Leave it(tm). At least that is what some "Americans" in The United States say.[/b] You can love it, leave it, or better yet - change it. [b]Some of these people say that i am "UnAmerican". I will agree that sometimes i don't want to be an "American" anymore. But i don't know where else i would go. I don't know of other countries that are not The United States Of America that i would be welcome in.[/b] At the rate were going the whole world might be America so you'll need another planet. [b]Sometimes i think about driving my truck into the side of a train. I thought about it most of the day today. And I thought about it yesterday too. I also thought about it some over this last weekend.[/b] Violence to yourself or a trainload of people doesn't solve anything. [b]I did not think about it last week, because instead i was thinking about razor blades. Part of the week i was thinking about a pipe bomb. But only "Sissy Americans" use razor blades, and only "Terrorists" use bombs, right?[/b] I know you're outraged like alot of people all over the world but if you stick around you might be able to make some changes, maybe with music! You shouldn't chase after the past or pin your hopes on the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_dont_fret Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]You know Phaeton, I think one of the [b]hardest[/b] things for a human being to do is just to say "I don't know", so I salute you for saying that and I'll say it myself "I don't know". I don't have enough information to make an intelligent decision, and I don't trust the sources of information that are available to me about a lot of things. I don't know. Great Post, Phaeton, you touched me, man.[/b][/quote]Wewus, I say that to every question ever asked to me...so, where's my salute? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 I got your salute right here. [img]http://www.inquiry.net/images/bbr017_small.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Excellent. Simply excellent. Can't top it, and can't dispute. And you know what? I wouldn't be surprised if there were at least ONE person in each of the other countries that felt the same. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHAN Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 :thu: So Many Drummers. So Little Time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by whitefang: [b]I wouldn't be surprised if there were at least ONE person in each of the other countries that felt the same. [/b][/quote]Here is the Mexican, sharing those feelings... Very emotive, even for non English speakers ! :thu: Músico, Productor, Ingeniero, Tecnólogo Senior Product Manager, América Latina y Caribe - PreSonus at Fender Musical Instruments Company Instagram: guslozada Facebook: Lozada - Música y Tecnología www.guslozada.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mix2much Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 I never reply to political posts either. I read them but often times don't know what I could possibly contribute due to such confusing circumstances that we seem to be in these days in america. Your post was not"political" to me. It was "human", real, poetic even. In an ideal world we would all be looked at as humans rather than americans or mexicans or canadians, etc. But we're just not there yet. It's a shame but people love to put a label on things and other people that are supposedly different from them. I don't feel all that different from the mexicans I talk to and I don't feel all that different from my friends in canada or denmark or turkey, russia, etc. We're all human and we're all connected in some way, yet we lose sight of that so easily...and the miracle of life is taken for granted and often sacrificed. I really don't know wheren i'm headed with all of this but that posts made feel like I wasn't alone in my thoughts on things. Don't plow your truck into a train. I know it's tempting with all the confusion but good people like you are rare in this world, therefore you would be sorely missed. Peace Glenn Halldorson Premiere Radio Networks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydog Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Phaeton, Nice piece of writing! You are clearly not a "stupid" or "ignorant" American. Keep your head up and keep talking... :thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeon Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 phaeton: I enjoyed reading what you wrote, even if some of it made me think about things that are not so enjoyable...because I felt less alone afterward. I do not think you have to worry about being Stupid or Ignorant, for the stupid and ignorant never consider if they are, much less decide they are...so you are neither. :thu: Go tell someone you love that you love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Maybe I am stupid, maybe I am ignorant, the world is in a BAD place right now and the only thing I know is to give MY government the benefit of the doubt. Some might say that is stupid, but I sure as hell am not going to give my "way of life" to the U.N.. The U.N. will be irrelevant in a month and the world will be different. Will it be a better place? I have no idea, but I WILL NOT put my future in the hands of MR. Annon or Mr. Blix. My vote is for Bush, and YES if al gore WOULD have won then I would be backing him. (as we all know, if gore had won,9-11 would have come and gone by now). [b]I thank god everyday that GWB "stole" the election![/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh Clem Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 a little Deep Purple there? great lyric: http://www.thehighwaystar.com/rosas/lyrics/fireball/fireball07.htm Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mats Olsson. Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Phaeton, thank you. /Mats http://www.lexam.net/peter/carnut/man.gif What do we want? Procrastination! When do we want it? Later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sign Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 No! we're not gonna stop this world and I want you to stay brother!! You know what? I'm gonna sing you an old song: "Come gather around people where ever you roam, and admit that the water around you has grown. And accept it that soon you'll be drenched to the bone. If your time to you is worth saving, then you better start swimming or you'll sink like a stone for the times they are a-changing". Love you man :thu: Peace, Han The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alon Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Apologetic drivel. alon . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sign Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Alon: [b]Apologetic drivel. alon[/b][/quote]Sorry, but I have to disagree. The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alon Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Sign, my comment was not directed towards your post, but towards the opening thread. While it was an amusing read, the first 2 words that came to my mind were Apologetic Drivel. my 2 cents alon . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sign Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 I understand Alon, but I still disagree. The guy has number of good points, he speaks right from the heart and shows some genuine emotion. We as musicians have an obligation you know. Musicians are driven by emotion and have always point to things like injustice in their songs/lyrics remember? The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thrashole Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Phaeton, I loved your post. It pretty much describes my attitude. I don't hate anyone except maybe Canadians or people from Kentucky :D I leave the politics to others, I'm just an audio guy. Reach out and grab a clue. Something Vicious My solo crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botch. Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Great post, Phaeton, thank you for taking the time to write it. :thu: Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midimonk Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Thanks :thu: :thu: I cannot be bought, and I cannot be threatened. But if you put them both together then I'm your man!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuri T. Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 I find myself feeling these things often. I get involved in some of the political posts. I try to make sense of what's going on. I read and study and try to read between the lines to where the truth likely is. I have only the information that is offered and available, most of which is biased by someone. I've listened and bantered with many opinions. Sometimes it seems pretty futile because I still don't know what's real. Perception is everything, almost everything in life is subjective and relative. There are only a couple things I know for sure. Humans in general are much better at destruction than anything else. We have perfected killing. Hate is less work than love. All you need is love and love ain't for keeping. I love music because it can transcend mundane reality if even for a spilt second. I love music because it brings people together to share a feeling or memory. Anything that can do that is priceless in our world of distrust and misunderstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Great post, Phaeton. I think you've nailed a sentiment that many of us could not articulate. I'm so glad you wrote it, and shared. "All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence." The Buddha's Last Words R.I.P. RobT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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