timrocker Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Hi All, I was just looking at the Jackson website and noticing some things about their guitars. For one, many of their more popular designs have 24 frets. I've been getting by with 22 on both of my electrics. I'm curious-who on this forum has a 24 fret guitar and how often do you use those extra two notes? I guess, counting bends, that's 4+ extra notes. What songs call for those notes? I'm just curious. Another thing I noticed is that on some of the models on Jackson's site, they seem to have moved the neck pickup closer to the bridge (away from the fretboard) to make room for those frets. Is this the case? And does that change things? I mean, doesn't the neck pickup need to be placed at a certain point on the string (a harmonic?). Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak Lander Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 You only really need one, in front of your fingers. Our Joint "When you come slam bang up against trouble, it never looks half as bad if you face up to it." The Duke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O'Shite Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Exactly twenty-three frets would be perfect, in my book... ! The neck-pickup needs only to be placed wherever you like the way it sounds; Leo Fender, Steve Morse, myself, and loads of other folks like it right about where an imaginary 24th fret would live, just fine! Some prefer the added range for lotsa lead playing up high, though I feel that you're approaching the upper limits of the useful range of the instrument. (Don't forget that Les Paul, Tommy Tedesco, and many other pros, have referred to the 1st through 3rd frets as the money position, and the like!) Many see- make that hear- the difference as minimal, or nonexistent, and thus a fair trade for more upward mobility. The late virtuoso jazz fingerstylist Joe Pass had an Ibanez signature production model endorsement once, probably a better axe than the later Epiphone model, which had one pickup located somewhere in the area between where one would often find a neck and a middle pickup. He, and Ibanez, spent a bit of time figuring out exactly where to place the pickup to get the exact tonal balance he wanted to hear. My Les Paul with P-90 "soapbar" single-coils has the neck pickup located so that the polepieces align just a little south of this imaginary 24th fret line, due to the shape and size of the P-90's and the fingerboard and cutaway. It sounds fatter and saucier than the slightly hollowed and percussive "bell" tone that a Strat has in the neck pickup; I would bet that a little tiny but noticeable extra bit of Strattiness would come through if the poles lined up with that invisible 24th fret! It's really all relative and subjective, and many other factors (scale length, materials, overall design, types of pickups, styles of playing and music) will come into play from one instrument design and player to another! -k Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Soloway Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 I don't think I've played anything above the 15th fret in years. www.solowayguitars.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O'Shite Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 -k Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Soloway Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Originally posted by CaevanO'Shite: -kTrue. I guess my guitars really go down to the -7th fret. www.solowayguitars.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 If you like to start on a low string and end up on a high note without a lot of jumping up the fretboard, it can be useful. Actually those last few notes are an important thing to test for when buying a guitar-they tend to disappear tonally on a lot of electrics. I wish there was a site for Dragonfly guitars-they make them up to `32 scale. Now that`s some extra frets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O'Shite Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 In response to Jim Soloway's post above on "the -7th fret" Heavy! (Must be you tune to a low "A"?) -k Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talk Box Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 I've noticed that between my strat and my ibanez saber I use whatever I have. If a guitar has 22 frets then I am glad with that. 24 and I am still happy . I just go with what the instrument has to offer. as far as neck pickup tone...I couldnt give you a comparison because I am comparing a single coil to a humbucker anyways, I think that you will find out that an extended range really isnt a big deal. -talk box If I was talking to the ice cream, I would be eating you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O'Shite Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 By the way, timrocker- you should do a search on this forum for this topic. There's been a lot of discussion on this matter in guitar design and pickup location before. Or was that on the Melancon forum? -k Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hariseldon Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Have any of you ever played the 24th or even the 22th in the 6th or 5th strings. I haven't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 22 frets on my Strat works. 24 would be cool on that guitar, but I can't see 24 frets on a PRS or LesPaul or other short scale length guitar. There would not be enough room for your fingers. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abnorm Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 The highest frets that I've seen in guitar tablature just take you to the 22nd fret. Like Pink Floyd's "Money" goes to 22, and Heart's "Straight On" goes to 22. Fortunately, my strat goes to 22, so I'm happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMcGuitar Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 I've got 21 frets on my strat (MIJ), and I occasionally wish I had a couple more. I rarely play above the 17th fret, but every once in a while it would be nice ... I'm not sure I would know what to do with a full 24 however May all your thoughts be random! - Neil www.McFaddenArts.com www.MikesGarageRocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Back in the late-80s, Washburn sold a guitar with 36 frets! I like 22. I have a couple guitars with 24 frets and the 24th is where the pole peices of the neck pickup should be IMHO. I think the neck pickup sounds a LOT better when located in that position. The neck pickup on the 24 fret guitars don't sound quite right to me. "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMcGuitar Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Check out this guitar (from Caevan's recent post) - 49 frets!! http://www.boazguitars.com/create_something_different.htm May all your thoughts be random! - Neil www.McFaddenArts.com www.MikesGarageRocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanner Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 some famous studio guitar guy once said "there are NO hit records above the 5th fret". i think he meant the 3rd fret tho'... s AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O'Shite Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Gabriel E.- Weren't those the crackle-finish jobbies with the "Stephen's Extended Cutaway" super pooper scooper cavernous neck-joint and cutaways? I remember that Hondo put out a "copy" of the old Danelectro Guitarlin back in the eighties, I think those both had thirty-six frets, as well. Eeewwwgh, can you imagine the "quality" of the fret-work on a thirty-six fret Hondo cheapie?!? -k Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Weren't those the crackle-finish jobbies with the "Stephen's Extended Cutaway" super pooper scooper cavernous neck-joint and cutaways? Yeah. They were neck-through. Some had a handle like the Ibanez Jem. If I find one in a pawn shop I'll grab it for sure. "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timrocker Posted June 14, 2003 Author Share Posted June 14, 2003 Yeah, that's what struck me about the whole More Frets issue. I don't know offhand of any song anywhere that uses those notes (23rd and 24th frets). And if you give up the right pickup position (and the clearance between the pickups too) to get notes you never need/use, then what the heck is the point? When I look at those models (24 frets) and see the two 'buckers squeezed together it makes me feel claustrophobic, knowing that there's less room to pick freely. And if (as several people have said) that position on the string is the best place for a pickup, not a fret, then it's an idea whose time has came and went. Jackson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O'Shite Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 Timrocker- note the fact that PRS offers some models in 22- and 24-fret versions, like the Custom-22 and -24, with the pickup location being different as well, for just those reasons: some folks, particularly pros, prefer the tone of the 22-fret/neck poles at the "24th" design, whereas others want those extra few notes to squeeze, tweeze, hammer, and bend... Hey, Gabriel E.- Originally posted by Gabriel E.: " ...Some had a handle like the Ibanez Jem. If I find one in a pawn shop I'll grab it for sure."YEAH! Grab[/] that toboggan by the handle!! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolead Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 Cool. I guess I'm the only jackass here that demands 24 frets. I wouldn't say demands, but prefers. I play alot of shred/heavy metal, so basically its fast, heavyly distorted, and technically involving. Not always soulful, but defintely involving. Anyways, a Strat is fine by any means for 22 frets, so is a Les Paul. They are generally used as multi-purpose guitars and can get away with shorter necks and fewer frets. The strings are easier to bend, so they are especially better for blues, jazz, and anything involving a lot of soul and expression. But when you want blantant speed and agression - have you ever tried a 32nd note bend at the 22nd fret up a whole step to get that extra octave? Its next to impossible in that time frame. My point is, people who play fast, loud (don't we all?), and hard need that extra 2 frets. It allows for the full two octaves. Look at who uses them: John Petrucci Steve Vai Although some insanely fast players don't: Kirk Hammett Yngwie Malmsteem Joe Satriani I find myself using the 24th fret often, but not a lot. I could easily get away w/ 22, but I prefer 24, which is why both my 1977 Epi Scroll 550 (A Les Paul with a shredder neck and slightly different design) and my Jackson have 24 frets. Shut up and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O'Shite Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 Who says yer a jackass, revolead? Let's kick'em to tha curb! -If I gave the impression that I was snubbing those who don't see and hear it the same way as I do, I didn't mean it quite that way! For me, the imaginary 23-fretster will reign supreme! I just love that tone too much, and I play more riddim an' fills, anyways. But, for those who prefer otherwise, vive la differans! Who am I to argue with Steve Vai? Or Steve Morse? Hey, cool guitar... I betcha don't see many other folks with the same thing playing out, now, do ya?!? Post us a pic, and a bit or a byte of your music! -k Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timrocker Posted June 15, 2003 Author Share Posted June 15, 2003 Originally posted by revolead: Cool. I guess I'm the only jackass here that demands 24 frets. I wouldn't say demands, but prefers. I play alot of shred/heavy metal, so basically its fast, heavyly distorted, and technically involving. Not always soulful, but defintely involving. Anyways, a Strat is fine by any means for 22 frets, so is a Les Paul. They are generally used as multi-purpose guitars and can get away with shorter necks and fewer frets. The strings are easier to bend, so they are especially better for blues, jazz, and anything involving a lot of soul and expression. But when you want blantant speed and agression - have you ever tried a 32nd note bend at the 22nd fret up a whole step to get that extra octave? Its next to impossible in that time frame. My point is, people who play fast, loud (don't we all?), and hard need that extra 2 frets. It allows for the full two octaves. Look at who uses them: John Petrucci Steve Vai Although some insanely fast players don't: Kirk Hammett Yngwie Malmsteem Joe Satriani I find myself using the 24th fret often, but not a lot. I could easily get away w/ 22, but I prefer 24, which is why both my 1977 Epi Scroll 550 (A Les Paul with a shredder neck and slightly different design) and my Jackson have 24 frets.I sure didn't mean to imply any jackassed-ness about 24-fretting, revo. Sorry if I gave that impression. I guess another thought I was having was, well, what am I missing? I see what you mean about how you use your 2 more frets: of course it would take much longer to bend to get that note if you had to. Which Jackson do you have? I used to drool over the SL-4 when my Musicians Friend catalog came, but it seems to be discontinued. Thanks for speaking up with an "up" for the extra frets crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James-Italy Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 I'm having a lot of trouble with the first 17.... maybe someday I'll get up there to the others. My Gear My Attempts at Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 I'm with the folks that say that "I haven't got a clue as to what's going on with what is already there"... but...seriously, two octaves is kinda nice. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Strat Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 I can't live with anything less than 19 frets. Anything more is icing on the cake. BlueStrat a.k.a. "El Guapo" ...Better fuzz through science... http://geocities.com/teleman28056/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave da Dude Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 bluestrat, A piece of advice, keep the books. You don't get nearly what they're worth (it sounds like you've learned this part); and you'll eventually want to refer to (almost) all of them. Honestly! Dave Gotta' geetar... got the amp. There must be SOMEthing else I... "need". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolead Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Hey guys, the jackass thing was just a joke. I only felt different from you guys, not inferior. Kev - BTW I have an Ebony Scroll 550. The one at the top of the page is natural. Shut up and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timrocker Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 Dang, look at the frets on the acrylic Iceman in bluestrat's post! Yow! DRoolll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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