Do you work with keyboardists?

[shniggens]

I don't like the word "pianist"

 

Hello,

 

I am currently working in an amatuer band trying to get our chops down. I really like our guitarist and we do some great stuff together . . . sometimes.

 

Is there something that you guitarists that DO work with keys like to hear, or couldn't get by without from a keyboard player (because you like it so much)?

 

I know it seems like a very broad and vague question. Let me try to explain the best I can our dilemma:

 

- We both have a heavy chorded style, I think we make things too muddy together sometimes.

 

How do you work this out/communicate with your key player?

 

- I consider myself a piano player. I simply love the piano, and have played it as my sole instrument. I can add textures, play rhythm, play solos . . . I feel very comfortable with the sound and feel of a piano. I'm just getting in to other sounds - B3, Rhodes, etc (I don't do strings too much), so I'm getting better at applying those sounds.

 

What kind of sounds do you like accompanying or otherwise in your situation?

 

- Communication. I'm not trying to be cocky, snobbish, , but I do understand musical theory much more than our guitarist. I think this is the case with most piano players/guitarists. Keys get the theory down first, guitarists get their improv on first. I'm not saying either way is right or wrong. But I tend to communicate by either chord structures or scales. IE - go to the V chord here, or run down the g pentatonic there. He doesn't quite understand that.

 

Any suggestions on how we can improve our communication?

 

That's all I can think of now. Anything else you would like to add would be much appreciated. I know alot of guitarist don't believe keys can fit in well with a rock band - I think they do - so don't give me "piano doesn't work well in our Slayer cover band"

 

Thanks!

[michael saulnier]

Any time you have two instruments that are sharing the same sonic space, in terms of pitch and timbre...

 

If you're both playing a "heavy chorded style" you're probably duplicating a number of the same notes...

 

I've found that it can work better to divide up the sonic space... This probably means fewer "complex" chords...

 

There are many "heavy" bands that have keyboard players, listen to how the guitarists and keyboard players interact, and find the chord ideas they use...

 

This probably means some give and take on both sides... good luck.

 

guitplayer

[AlChuck]

To avoid harmonic mush, the typical things a savvy guitarist will do with a keyboardist on board is:

 

Lay out, just play the heads and ensemble lines.

 

Play simple, sparse chords in the middle of the guitar -- two-note figures of thirds and sevenths, usually with a rhythmic stabbing kind of approach, usually work well. Let the keyboardist do all the color notes (the extensions).

 

Otherwise, taking the time to work out complementary voicings is about all you can do.

 

It's a simple fact that a keyboardist can typically be much more harmonically and rhthmically interesting than a guitarist can, so guitarists almost always are relegated to playing sparsely to add mostly drive and rhythmic color in a band that includes a keyboardist.

 

But hey, that can be fun. I love the sound of those little rhythmic guitar accents adding some drive to what the keyboardist is doing. Listen to Pat Martino when he plays with a pianist for a good example of what works...

[Stan_Frenchie]

Hi,

 

Just my two cents : have your guitarist listen to Count Basie records, where Freddie Greene just

play 2 or 3 notes chords (and even 1 note chords !), but still keep the whole band

swinging ...

 

As it is very difficult to tame a guitar player an other option could be to put a sheet of music

in front of him

 

Good luck !

 

Stan.

[knunchucksammy]

Frankly,

 

don't do what you said you do.... To much chorded style is bad on the ears. Muddy is bad on the ears. It may be an obstacle tough to overcome but in the end you will only be better musicians.

 

You should share the chord style and share the solo style. If you are not that great at soloing then you allready know what you need to improve. Also, you asked what we liked about your situation: I like it when the two instruments compliment eachother rather than stomp on eachother. Don't compete. Complete.

 

Matt

[nonfcomm]

I will forewarn you I am a jazz guy. Often if you both lighten up your chord density, as in you both only playing 3-4 voice chords at most, you can create amazing harmonies between the instruments. Often what a jazz band will do is have the bass player play the root, the guitarist play the chord built from the third, and the keyboardist play the root, seventh, and upper extensions. So here is a small diagram of a Gmin(b9):

 

Chord: G Bb D F Ab

 

Bass: G

 

Guitar: Bb maj chord

 

Keyboard: G F Ab (so a good chord might be Fmin9)

F Ab © (Eb) G

 

That is one example of how you can build chords between the instrument. This was a technique used by Count Basie (hence the small Freddie Green chords) to add some clarity to the big band sound, without having to be stuck on triads and the occasional seventh.

 

Dan

[ben blackmore]

I play a lot with hammond organists. My tactic is to comp a bit when they are soloing as they need a bit of harmony if they are playing bass with one hand and soloing with the other. Otherwise I stay out of the way.

 

The hardest thing for a guitar player to do? To shut up once in a while....Give the music a bit of space, let it breathe. As Jim Hall puts it: don't just say something, stand there!

 

www.benjblackmore.co.uk