Is This Guitar Neccessary?

freelance · May 20, 2003

whitefang,

While I agree that the guitars I mentioned are somewhat interchangable - and while DC has a very good point that guys in cover bands have to reproduce any number of sounds useing one axe, there are differences in the sound of something like a semi-hollow body with duel Humbuckers (like a DOT) vs. a Tele with single coils.

Perhaps my over simplistic categorization Tele = Country, Strat = Blues, etc. was too limited. I chose the four guitars (Tele, Strat, SG & DOT) because I felt they would in one way or another cover any sound I needed.

I did not choose a Tele (or Strat, etc) because any special player used a Tele. When I decided to develop country chops (since most of the songwriters I work with in my project studio write country) I watched what axe many players used and I talked to players who I respected to determine why they used a Tele for country. The same with the SG, the Strat & the DOT.

As DC indicates tone is in the fingers and the amp (as much as the guitar). In truth, I'm not a good guitar player. I'm a very good drummer, a pretty decent keyboard player and an average to fair guitar player. However, I have not mastered guitar tone the way a good guitarist has, so I find certain guitars get me closer to the tones I need for various songs/styles.

Back to your original question, I agree a good guitarist should only need one axe to get whatever tone is needed - but having a few options isn't a bad thing.

michael saulnier · May 20, 2003

Originally posted by dougsthang':
We all have known these guys...the ones who got into music for the chicks only (think Poison)..The guitar had to match the outfit and the hair....

I tend to stick with the classic's, a Les Paul, A couple of Strat's, A Tele, and a hollow body...not for style of music but for proven quailty and flexabilty.

Any guitar with sharp points on it is not screaming versatility....

Some guitars are just meant to be played and also define the sound of the player. I really don't think BB could get that hollow bell tone from a Strat...his tone is Lucille...

I hear where you're coming from... but I think it's more "in the fingers" than you give it credit for.

MY BET is that if you gave BB King a strat it would sound WAY like BB King. It's just the way he plays. And if you handed that guitar to EVH, or Jimi, or Clapton, or you or me... it would sound like US...

Maybe a slighly "different" version of us, but us nonetheless.

I would HATE to think that someone could sound just like me by simply playing the same guitar and amp... no matter HOW much the guitar and amp makers want us to believe it.

guitplayer

Blue Strat · May 20, 2003

Originally posted by freelance:
I agree a good guitarist should only need one axe to get whatever tone is needed - but having a few options isn't a bad thing.

I think that getting every tone from country to metal to jazz to blues is damn near impossible, unless it's one hell of a guitar! I mean, for a Strat to cover all of that territory, compromises in the electronics have to be made. Billy Corgan couldn't get the tones he gets out of a stock Strat. The amount of distortion he uses would just become a squealing mess with a Strat's single coils!

I've got a Tele for clean to mildly overdriven stuff, my Strat for slightly dirty to heavy distortion, and a Epiphone Del Rey for heavy stuff (and oddly enough, clean rock-a-billy). I guess all three of these could do a close approximation of what the others do, but the nuances of what each guitar brings to the table would be lost. The Tele is a great guitar, but it doesn't have the Chuck Berry vibe that the Del Rey has for old-school rock & roll. All of them are good for blues, but one bites, one sings, and one moans.

dougsthang · May 20, 2003

[/qb]

I hear where you're coming from... but I think it's more "in the fingers" than you give it credit for.

MY BET is that if you gave BB King a strat it would sound WAY like BB King. It's just the way he plays. And if you handed that guitar to EVH, or Jimi, or Clapton, or you or me... it would sound like US...

Maybe a slighly "different" version of us, but us nonetheless.

I would HATE to think that someone could sound just like me by simply playing the same guitar and amp... no matter HOW much the guitar and amp makers want us to believe it.

guitplayer[/QB]

Good point, BB would sound like BB because of his hands but his tone would be slightly different, it would have to be.. If you blind tested one note on Lucille with BB (that little octave jump note he does with his little finger to end a phrase) bam you'd know it was BB. If I heard it on a Strat I'd think it was someone trying to sound like BB..

revolead · May 20, 2003

I actually just bought a new Jackson. A lot of you guys might not like it because, it is a "shredders" guitar, but I love the thing. It was one of those impulse buys. I already own a 1977 Epi Scroll 550, which has a VERY broad range of sounds, so I'm not worried about "filling" a whole in my guitar collection. When I found the Jackson, it was in great shape. Its a cherry sunburst finish and was screaming "buy me." I picked it up and it played well, and sounded only okay plugged in. Nonetheless it has been my experience that products never sound great in the store, no matter how good they are, so for $279, I took her home.

Now that I have had it for a few days, I'm falling in love with it. It sounds better then my Epiphone distorted, which is a lot of what I play, and for my fast, yet artful and melodic style of playing its perfect. Once again I know what its like to be in love.

To answer your question, the guitar doesn't have to be necessary, but an altered quote from Field of Dreams:

"If you buy it, the music will come."

whitefang · May 21, 2003

OK, freelance. So, WHY do those country pickers mostly use Telecasters? For that "country" sound?

What IS that, exactly? And bear in mind that back in '67, I saw Detroit legend Gino Washington at a local "young adult's" club. He was a rhythm & blues/soul singer. And HIS guitarist played a Tele!

Did NOT sound "country" to me!

WHAT does it all MEAN?

Whitefang

dougsthang · May 21, 2003

Tele is a popular country axe...A buddy of mine owns a studio and he had this band of young kids in there. They had always played these wild shaped guitars and weren't to hip on "guitar history" and other popular guitars. My buddy has this nice natural finish Tele. He asked the kid if he wanted to play it, when he opened the case the kid looked aat the Tele and said "Did you make that in wood shop?"....crack me up, I told my buddy that story who works for Fender and he about gacked a lung he laughed so hard..As for Tele Listen to Mike Stern rip on a tele on "We Want Miles" CD...Say no more

fantasticsound · May 21, 2003

Originally posted by whitefang:
OK, freelance. So, WHY do those country pickers mostly use Telecasters? For that "country" sound?

What IS that, exactly? And bear in mind that back in '67, I saw Detroit legend Gino Washington at a local "young adult's" club. He was a rhythm & blues/soul singer. And HIS guitarist played a Tele!

Did NOT sound "country" to me!

WHAT does it all MEAN?

Whitefang

Actually, Tele's are also associated with electric blues players. Not so much since the 1980's, but several well heeled, celebrity musicians play them.

Caevan O'Shite · May 21, 2003

R&B... Soul... Teles... Hmmmnn...

...Steve Cropper! Tha man! (And tha "chapstick"... ) -k

P.S.- What a fun "dog pile" of a thread! -merry k

James-Italy · May 21, 2003

GUITARS! GUITARS! GOTTA HAVE MORE GUITARS!!!

freelance · May 22, 2003

white fang,

I don't know what it means - what I was looking for (and what I suspect many people refer to when they reference a Tele in country music) is the Chick'n Pick'n sound which is thin, bright high in treble with some slapback delay. More of a single coil pickup sound.

I've already conceeded that more than one (maybe two) guitars probablyare not needed. I agree that too many people buy a guitar because so & so played it. I agree that many rock, blues and R&B cats play Tele's (I'm sure Keith played Tele on most of the Stones songs).

I've also indicated that guitar ain't even my main axe - so it is highly likely my opion of what guitars should sound like is full of crap anyway - so I defer to your original post, your points are all correct and well taken.

fantasticsound · May 22, 2003

Point;

While teles were the choice of Ronnie Dunn and Keith Urban on the ACM awards, the lion's share of guitar pickers had Les Paul's in their hands.

Of course, most of their playing sounded like rock & roll.

Tedster · May 22, 2003

Originally posted by Yes There's Gas In The Car - FS:
Point;

While teles were the choice of Ronnie Dunn and Keith Urban on the ACM awards, the lion's share of guitar pickers had Les Paul's in their hands.

Of course, most of their playing sounded like rock & roll.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000560ES.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Never woulda caught ol' Don dead without his Tele. Of course, I wouldna thought you'd a caught him in that fancy pink suit, either. Hey Neil...didja buy yer shoes from the late great Don Rich?

fantasticsound · May 22, 2003

Yikes!

Teahead · May 22, 2003

Ok, so the overwhelming majority do seem to favour a selection of guitars, where possible, to satisfy their tonal desires. Personally I believe that if you have the means, and can justify the ownership of said instruments, to yourself only, then there is no problem. We all know that feeling when a piece of equipment is wasting away, or being under played. This is the real shame.

If however your guitars are getting played and loved on a regular basis then enjoy it! Envy will visit you regularly, as others question your motives and quiz you on your treasures. Ignore them, enjoy what you have and remember to appease only yourself.

Imagine a world where everyone had a Variax! The legends would still be the legends and we would all know the real reasons why.

LeftyBlues · May 22, 2003

Try being left handed...and poor! Pretty much narrowed my choice to a Mex Strat, but by dumb luck turns out to be a very nice instrument. Would love to get a nice hollow body electric some day too, maybe an Epiphone if I can find one since they seem reasonable in price. I know, I know, a right handed axe can be converted to left handed, but that's like kissing your sister. Just love playing, that's all!

Caevan O'Shite · May 22, 2003

Bruce Downs- Welcome! I love the "My other car is a Strat" line! And, let us kiss your sister! We'll be the judge of what it's like!

You should look into building a lefty from Warmoth necks, bodies, etc. They make some chambered bodies and offer all manner of woods and options for bods'n'necks; I know, a bolt-on chamberd axe isn't quite the same as a set-neck hollowbody, but you should be able to put together a great lefty-axe for far less than you'd pay in a store.

Check'em at http://www.warmoth.com/

Originally posted by Teahead:
"Imagine a world where everyone had a Variax! The legends would still be the legends and we would all know the real reasons why."

-Good point!

I surely had visions of Duane, Dickie, Jimmy, Billy, Eric, Michael (Bloomfield, kids! Not the one next to Bubbles! ), Jeff, Joe, Joe, Buck, the list of those who made 'Lizzy fat, and many, many others fermenting in my mind for years, and all those maddeningly beautiful sunbursts, gold-tops, "standards" and Deluxes stirring up something akin to testosterone and seratonin in a flaming triple-shot. I definitely longed to be a member in the figured-top Michigan-Maple Club! And, for the first few months of enjoying my Les Pauls, I would occasionly stumble across a bent-note here, and a little-lick there that would remind me of "Duane'n'Dickie at the Fillmore" and definitely sound closer to the "original, genuine-article" than had I been playing a different guitar.

However, I have made little pretense of copying these guys wholesale, though I have integrated those little licks and bent-notes and, more importantly, the "touch" required to make'em sound just-so, into my music and made them my own. Actually, I don't even play much "lead" stuff, more of a bastardised fingerstyle chord-melody approach.

It isn't a case of "the guitar makes the player", but the reverse that is true.

I do want a few other guitars, primarily for tonal and "tactile" reasons. A different guitar can make you play differently. And all of us, to some degree, use the axe as a sort of self-expressive accessory and Linus-like "security blanket" hanging in front of us; why else put "custom" knobs, straps, pickgaurds, etc. on them, but to "fetishise" them? Or worry about how "new" they stay looking, or how "vintage" by clever counterfeitting of years of use? But, I think that a few years down the road, as I grow and mature musically, I will begin to "design" a guitar that will combine some elements of various models, and suit my needs and cover a lot of bases in one axe. -k

P.S.- wasn't the guitar on Never Mind The Bollocks, Here's The Sex Pistols an Alpine-White Gibson Les Paul Custom?

To perfectly nail that, though, don't forget that the guitar was stolen! -k (not ok)

NMcGuitar · May 22, 2003

Originally posted by CaevanO'Shite:

I do want a few other guitars, primarily for tonal and "tactile" reasons. A different guitar can make you play differently.

That is so true! My hands just automatically start doing different things when I play my Les Paul than they do with my Strat. And there is something to the tonal variations - a slightly different sound can give you a creative jolt to do something a little different.

It's true that a great player will sound great on almost any guitar, and no axe in the world will make a lousy player sound good, but the interaction between the instrument and the player really can't be overlooked.

fantasticsound · May 22, 2003

Originally posted by Bruce Downs:
Try being left handed...and poor! Pretty much narrowed my choice to a Mex Strat, but by dumb luck turns out to be a very nice instrument. Would love to get a nice hollow body electric some day too, maybe an Epiphone if I can find one since they seem reasonable in price...

Have you checked out www.southpawguitars.com ? They specialize in lefty instruments, and carry Epiphone and Gibson, as well as many other boutique and mass production guitars.

LeftyBlues · May 22, 2003

To Caevan and Neil: thank you both for the replys!

I'll check out both web sites tonight. It's been 25 years since I had a guitar, so it's all pretty new to me again. Play every night and love every minute of it! I've been trying to learn to play Deacon Blues which is quite a challenge to me, but it's getting there. Thanks again.

Bruce

coyote · May 22, 2003

You know, any reason someone owns a guitar is good enuf for me. Even if it's just to have the right look. Let's face it people, anytime we get up onstage WE ARE IN ***SHOWBIZ*** and we ought proceed accordingly. So if a particular instrument isn't adversely affecting your sound and your playing, there's no particular reason to not use it. And if it helps you get or keep a gig, for whatever reason, it's a plus. Even if it means you have to hew to tradition and do your country pickin' on a Tele and your jazz on an ES175 and your metal on a Flying V. At least til you geet yourself estaablished as a leader; then you can choose any axe you want.

whitefang · May 23, 2003

I can easily concede that different guitars used for various tonal reasons makes it important to sport a lot of them. Especially in a professional venue. One axe might give you a "sound" you think appropriate for a particular song. And especially important if different songs call for some alternate tuning. MUCH easier to switch guitars than to stand there for god knows how long while you re-tune!

I was simply thinking along the lines of those musicians who might choose one of those "avant-garde" shaped instruments based on the "far-out" look rather than considering whether or not a more "traditional" shaped guitar might offer a higher quality of sound and playability. If indeed they do. Or of some other perception.

I think of the line Joe Seneca used on Ralph Macchio in "Crossroads" in referrence to Ralph's old six-string acoustic, "You even probably bought that guitar because you thought it looked beat up!" Alluding to the belief, of course, that to be a "true" bluesman, you gotta have a beat up old guitar. And not even considering the reason those old bluesmen HAD beat up old guitars was that they couldn't afford anything ELSE.

Freelance made referrence to the Telecaster being the country musician's guitar of choice. Well, simple as it looks, no one with any sense of fairness can say it's a cheap-ass, piece'o'shit axe. It'sa a VERY basic guitar that happens to also be an excellent instrument! Which is why, of course, so many musicians from so many different venues have made it their choice. However, I STILL can't help but get the feeling that a certain number of those country artists picked it because it's the popular "country" guitar at the moment. Luckily, it works to their advantage.

And, at least, it's not that "Overtone" guitar I've seen on the late-night infomercials.

Whitefang

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