Long hair in Corporate America?

[Dave da Dude]

I received a revelation yesterday. Not all revelations are good.

 

My brother-in-law (whom I work for) explained to me very patiently (he's ten years younger than I am) that as the CEO of a small company he must formally follow the rules of the land (i.e. Federal Law), but, the reality of it is that he can manage his company any way that he likes.

 

The bottom line, long hair and a long beard are a no-no in his company. But only in reality, not in his (the company's) formal (compliance) to the law.

 

I thought this had all been resolved in the 60's. How naive I have been!

 

Any comments?

[Tedster]

It surely depends on what sort of business you're in. If you're trying to sell to a large segment of the public, you are expected to maintain a "generic" appearance...in other words, business-like. You have to know your market, and, no matter what, neatness will count. That's not to say long hair and beards should be a no no at all, just well-kept long hair and beards in certain circumstances. If you own a Harley dealership, longer hair and a beard would probably be a plus. If you own a Lexus dealership, it may be a minus...and ultimately, it's the company who stands to lose if a Lexus salesman looks like Jerry Garcia, or the Harley Salesman looks like Herb Tarlek (Sp) from WKRP in Cincinnati.

 

Then, there are other areas where facial hair is always a no no. Any occupation where safety regulations require that you may have to wear an oxygen mask or respirator at any time may not allow beards (fireman, airline pilot, chemical plant worker).

 

That said...if there are instances where people (who have no direct contact with the public) are forced to look a certain way just because the company owner wants to be an asshole...that unfortunately happens, too.

[Franknputer]

Some people still subscribe to that nonsense. Hell, I was getting compliments for my hair from corporate people 10 years ago - and they had to follow the same stupid rule.

 

What an idiotic non-issue. It only encourages snap character judgements - if I look "right" then I must be O.K - regardless of how I'll end up treating you in the end.

[strat0124]

I work in a business environment, and I know for a fact that having long hair impedes promotions. I cut mine each time I went up for a new job, but refuse to now. I feel like if its clean, and well groomed, any style appropriate for the position should be acceptable, and be protected by law. Obviously super long hair and a full beard my hinder you to safely execute your responsibilites in some cases, but for the most part, shouldn't. Women have long hair, and do their jobs, so it shouldn't be a factor. I guess if I had multiple facial peircings and/or tatoos that couldn't be hidden, that would be a factor, but I'm pretty regular, just with long hair.

[The Bear Jew]

A word from the resident freak:

I work for a big-ass, corporate-as-fuck company. I'm typing on one of their computers right now. As some of the regulars of this forum know... I have very long dreadlocks and a long beard. Yes... I have been mistaken Rob Zombie and Al Jourgenson. I got this job through the Internet. I applied online, and I sent in a resume before I did the in-person interview. When I came for the face-to-face, I wore a suit. I made sure my long beard was neat and had no animals living in it. I tied my hair back. I shook hands. I looked people in the eye. I answered questions and smiled.

 

I got the job.

 

However...

I found out after I had been here for about two months that my appearance was a major sticking point before I was actually hired. Apparently the big boss didn't want me here because, as a representative of the company, I might give peers in the industry "the wrong impression." He was worried what they might think of my appearance and the comnpany by proxy. Luckily for me, I was (if I may say so myself) VERY qualified for this job, so even though the guy didn't like the way I look, he couldn't argue with my work or my qualifications. So I got the gig, but it's pretty fucking clear that I will not be sent to any industry functions for fear that I will contaminate the corporate image of this company. Interesting, huh? I can work for the company and speak to major players in the industry on a regular basis (by phone and the Internet), but I can't meet any of them in person.

 

In spite of my appearance, the big boss seems to like me anyway. He has praised my work numerous times, and he frequently stops at my desk to speak with me. I think he's waiting for me to "straighten up" so that he can introduce me around. Welllllll... he'll be holding his breath for a long time. I like him, and I like my job, but I ain't changing for anyone. He'll have to live with my appearance just as he has to live with the Black Sabbah, Guitar Wolf, Elvis, Lemmy and Fu Manchu posters in my office.

[Tedster]

I guess I'm kind of a lucky sort, because I don't care if I've got a crew cut or hair down to my ass. So, on several occasions, I've cut my hair early on, and just let it grow.

 

Fuck 'em all anyway.

[Kevin F]

I agree that it is bullshit to be told how to dress and how you need to look.

 

But I have seen this story go both ways. When I was younger I had to look a certain way for the company I worked for but I was also stereotyped by other musicians. Since I didn't have long hair and 'look the part' (note: this was when big hair was the rage) they wouldn't take me seriously as a musician. They would dismiss me without even hearing me play. Of course my atitude at this was for them to go fuck themselves.

 

So it is bullshit to judge anyone on their appearance. Let them talk/play/whatever and then tell them they are full of shit.

[Gus Lozada]

... well... that's one of the best parts about working for a musical instruments company ...

 

I WAS a corporate dude (when I was working as a Materials manager for an electronics assemblies company). Now my boss is in California and I am in Mexico... I work the entire day in MY studio and I can let him know I play by nights ... it's a cool thing

 

But yes... all those ideas about long hair being a no-no in corporate-shutland, is a sad reality.

[Tedster]

How about age discrimination by musicians? Ya know..."You're over 30...go screw yourself". It's all over the place.

 

I remember when I was a young longhair back in the mid 70s...everyone who could play anything had long hair. And I'm watching some concert show on TV, and this guy with extremely short dorky looking hair wearing pajamas gets up on stage. I'm thinking...this is definitely gonna suck.

 

The guy was John McLaughlin.

 

We all stereotype based on appearance.

[DC]

I just do the 'sensitive pony tail man' thing and wear a hat. It's weird because I've met the 'boss' at X-mass parties and such as my sweetie works for him. I got hired on to repair coffee pots for their coffee service (sorta like a plumber meets electrician meets Emmit's fix it shop) and I'm all on my own in the back of the warehouse. Still have to tow the line a bit though as the boss hates 'long hairs.'

 

Yes, prejudice is alive and well...

[Gus Lozada]

Unfortunately you are certainly right, Tedster.

 

... but I was just talking about that feeling of freedom about working in a non traditional company. I have never used long hair; right now it's just growing a little but I feel good ! It helps to my "artist look" and none cares about it in my office

[D_dup3]

The truth is that a lot of people (even those who might accept earrings, etc., on guys) view long hair negatively...but it sounds like you're being told that some federal law prohibits it & that's a crock.

Then again there are all sorts of laws---legal arrangements, actually---that give companies various business/tax advantages from following governmental "suggestions" (like having you pee in a bottle).

[Dave da Dude]

I was saying that Federal prohibits discrimination beause of long hair. But, in the REAL world the company can do whatever they want and hide it under some made up bullcrap.

 

Dave

[fantasticsound]

To my knowledge, long hair is not protected by any anti-discrimination act. The only way your brother can be sued and lose is if the company discriminates by not applying the same standards to all males or all females. Some personal grooming is protected by anti-discrimination laws, but only when it pertains to another factor, such as freedom of religeon. If your religeon insists you have long hair and/or facial hair, such as in some Orthodox Jewish sects, you cannot be turned down for a job based on your hair.

 

I worked for Opryland USA themepark. Their policy precluded any male's hair from being longer than the nape of the neck, and beards were prohibited. A neat, trimmed moustache was tolerated. The only exceptions were for performers impersonating stars with facial hair. I was shocked to learn, after a year of working in the sound department, that several of the salaried workers had hair down to their butts. All these guys wore ball caps and hid their hair. I still don't know how all 3 of them managed to do so well enough to completely hide any trace of long hair. None of this was, nor is now, illegal.

 

Like it or not, the general look of business is clean shaven and a neat haircut. If you don't like it, that's fine. Start your own business or find one that appreciates you despite your long hair or facial hair. Individuality is wonderful. That doesn't mean a business has to bend to your every whim. If they feel their customers are very conservative and won't appreciate your look, they can choose another candidate for jobs, especially when they involve visual contact with customers.

[Dave da Dude]

I stand corrected (a long sweeping bow).

[The Thrashole]

It's not just long hair---you pack of hippies!

Us bald guys have the same type of problems. I'm actually lucky where I work now. There is a general feeling that the guys in Tech Support are "a little off".at least here we are pretty much excused because 80% of us are musicians but the rest of the company is very corporate, and clean cut. I have worked in commissioned sales as well and I understand it in those situations but not when safety or customers are concerned.

[TuskBuffer]

Originally posted by Dave th Dude:

I was saying that Federal prohibits discrimination beause of long hair. But, in the REAL world the company can do whatever they want and hide it under some made up bullcrap.

 

Dave

The only way the federal law would prohibit "long hair" discrimination is if it was a part of your religion, national heritage or something like that. I honestly can't stand all the hypocrisy of "political correctness." The ACLU and other special interest groups are just "Jerry Springer goes to Washington!" Sure, it was a good thing when it started--treat everybody with equally and with respect. Who could ask for anything more? Now, though, they're trying to change the rules for everybody based on the few wackos who do nothing but sit around and try to think of something to whine about!

 

Okay, I'll stop. I could write about this for another couple of days, but that would be boring. Now I'm inspired to write a letter to the editor or something. In conclusion, f**k 'em if they can't take a joke!

[Dave da Dude]

TuskBuffer,

 

You must be nearer my age than I thought, or does the ".. f**k 'em if they can't take a joke .." line transcend generations? Unfortunately, the joke is on me!

 

It's not so much whether it's legal or not, I'm just disappointed after all the noise, and political correctness agreement, in the '60's about all types of appearance not affecting who the person really is was all for naught.

 

Oh, BTW re: your "signature", "You've got the best guitar, you've got the best amp, now get the best pick" ; I played w/ the pick I got from you yesterday and I still love it! Not a huge difference, but it IS better. Do you still have a picture of it (# 1057)? Do you keep records of your sales? I'm documenting all my gear with serial numbers and pictures. I guess I still p.o.'d (from two years ago) about the dirty, rotten rat who stole my Ibanez.

 

Perhaps Frenchie can correct my horrendous spelling of the French phrase signalling the demise of my ponytail this coming Saturday, Ou voir.

 

Dave.

[Tedster]

Yeah, TuskBuffer...

 

Do you also make custom ivory nuts and acoustic bridge saddles?

[TuskBuffer]

Originally posted by Dave th Dude:

TuskBuffer,

 

You must be nearer my age than I thought, or does the ".. f**k 'em if they can't take a joke .." line transcend generations? Unfortunately, the joke is on me!

 

Dave.

Yeah, I think the phrase might have originally been coined by Emporer Nero as he played his fiddle....

 

Since you're going to "do the deed" and guillotine your ponytail, there should be some kind of ceremony; and have the person cutting your hair use a sword or axe (not a guitar) to chop it! Whether you do that or not, definitely donate it to someplace where they make wigs for cancer patients. That's what I did a couple years ago, and it gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling inside. It turns your loss into something positive! I'm growing mine long again just so I can donate it again in another couple of years. When people find out about that, suddenly I become "noble," instead of just a long haired freaky person!

[Adamixoye]

I am a grad student; I teach astro labs. Last day of this past semester, my students were shocked to find out I did not do any weed.

 

Why?

 

I'm not 100% sure why, but there are two probable reasons...(a) I can be pretty laid back and 'whatever' at 9 AM and (b) I have shoulder length hair, jaw-length sideburns, and a chin-only goatee.

 

So you could say that my hippie appearance leads to a lot of stereotypes, few of which are true...I am very far from the 'hippie ideal' in most ways.

 

But despite that, I don't have a problem with corporations 'discriminating' on that basis. 'Discrimination' has such a bad connotation, but it only means using some criteria to make a selection. They should be able to hire whoever they want to hire. (See what I mean about not being the 'hippie ideal'?)

 

Obviously, discrimination can be very wrong depending on the criteria; for instance, I can't come up with very many examples where race is a good criteria (choosing an actor to play Al Gore, perhaps?). But desiring a traditionally clean-cut appearance? That is not wrongful discrimination in my book. By having long hair, I know that I am excluding myself from certain things, and I shouldn't complain about that...it's a choice I make.

 

Oh well...it's really not going to matter to me when I chop it all off in a few weeks.

[The Bear Jew]

Adamixoye,

I know EXACTLY what you mean. I've covered this ground here before, but plenty of people assume I'm a Rasta/Hippie/druggie etc. because I have long-ass dreads. In reality, I'm straight-edge -- no drugs, no smoking, no drinking, no promiscuous sex. You wouldn't believe how often I am propositioned for all of these... I usually just laugh.

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by Adamixoye:

...I can't come up with very many examples where race is a good criteria (choosing an actor to play Al Gore, perhaps?)...

This was exactly the situation on SNL after Phil Hartman left the show. The season premiere began with every male cast member auditioning for the part of Bill Clinton. Tim Meadows (who is black, for those who don't know) walked out and began reciting lines, then abruptly cut himself off and asked, "I don't have a chance at getting this, do I?" The offstage reply... "No", of course.

[JohnE]

I work for a large company that has an appearance policy. I don't have a problem with it now that I don't have to wear a tie any more. What a stupid thing, the suit and tie. I can understand looking businesslike, but a tie? What is it? If women were forced to wear this stuff, the laws would have been changed years ago. They wouldn't put up with it. So, I think men just don't really think it's worth fighting over...

 

Anyway, on the subject of you long-haired or pony-tailed or beard-wearing or tattooed or peirced freaks (I'm just teasing, relax! ), I wonder, aren't you trying to make a statement with your appearance? If so, you must expect that different people will respond to that statement, in different ways, don't you? You must realize that people have instinctive reactions to other people. If you accept these realities, then I ask you, why would you be surprised that you could possibly get a negative reaction due to your appearance? Why wouldn't some professional, profit-seeking organizations ask their employees to look as clean-cut as possible?

 

Oh, and if someone can explain the appeal of tattoos and piercing, I would be genuinely interested in understanding it.

 

Thanks. -John

[magicman]

Yes, you can rip-off shareholders, lie to employees, create fraudulent enterprises and escape with a golden parachute equal to the GDP of a small African nation. Just don't have long hair.

 

[D_dup3]

Regarding JohnE's comment about "making a statement":

not necessarily.

It's not really different than parting your hair on one side or the other, is it?

That's not making a statement, is it?

Some people just feel more comfortable with longer hair, the same as others might prefer a buzz cut or any other style.

Reactions to hair length are not instinctive (else long hair would've never been stylish historically)...& in a multi-cultural setting like the modern USA, they're not even cultural, they're subjective.

 

Now tattoos & piercing, I agree with you about ...but those have still been culturally significant in different places---usually when/where people had limited means of dress differentiation...& nowadays it's just teenagers, etc., who find it harder & harder to be rebellious

[Skip_dup1]

I remember walking into Sam Ash to check out some guitars, and seeing one of the sales guys walk past with a nice white office short, a neatly tied necktie-and shoulder length hair. It was really hard not to start laughing. Just the incongruity of it. It always seems strange to me that virtually all insitutuiions seem to have some attitude about it when historically, long hair was the norm for much longer than short hair.

[Skip_dup1]

I remember walking into Sam Ash to check out some guitars, and seeing one of the sales guys walk past with a nice white office short, a neatly tied necktie-and shoulder length hair. It was really hard not to start laughing. Just the incongruity of it. It always seems strange to me that virtually all institutions seem to have some attitude about it when historically, long hair was the norm for much longer than short hair.

[Adamixoye]

I remember this one time when skip double-posted. I made fun of him for it, but all in jest. I don't remember how he reacted.

[Adamixoye]

I remember this one time when skip double-posted. I made fun of him for it, but all in jest. I don't remember how he reacted.