Recording a Marshall Stack...

[adz]

I've been trying to record a JCM900 50W head through a Marshall 4x12 cab for a local punk/pop band. I've tried the standard SM57 on the best sounding speaker and it sounds ok but it doesn't have any "balls" to the sound. It just sounds thin . We've played around a lot with the sounds on the amp but he's not too good with his amp and i have fairly limited knowledge of getting a good sound out of this sort of amp.

I'm recording to protools through 888's using the preamps on and otari status. I don't really have the option of hiring any other preamps/converters.

 

The mics i have access to include: SM57's, SM58's, Beyer M201, D112, ATM25, C3000, Neumann TLM193's, Rode Classic, Rode NT2, Beyer M88.

 

It would be greatly appreciated if any one can help with either the recording side or the amp setup side.

 

Cheers,

Adz

[signal1000]

It's tricky getting a good guitar sound when recording digitally. Not sure if you know any of this already, but I'll just add a couple of points. It takes skill and a lot of practice to get the right kind of compression and EQing on a guitar track when you record it digitally. I'd prepare for a few hours of tweaking with a compressor and an EQ to try to get the sound that you heard the amp making really come through on the recording. I have a good friend who just records his guitar parts through his Marshall to a 4 track, then zips it to ProTools on his computer. The tape adds a natural compression so it's really easy to get a great guitar sound on analog equipment.

[snoz65]

I noticed the same thing when I record on my PC. If I master down to cassette the guitar sounds much warmer. Now I use T-racks software and the result is good. A bit of tape compression certainly helps.

[Stan_Frenchie]

Hi,

 

My two cents ...

You surely thought about that already but just in case ... Have you tried different mic positions (on/off axis, near/far from the speaker) as it may come from phase cancelation. What about using one of the other mic. as an ambience one ? Putting the amp in a corner of the room to emphasize bass response ?

 

Hope this helps.

 

Bests.

 

Stan.

[Frank Frombach]

I'd use the 57 or try the C3000 if it can take the SPL.

Then try taking a feed off the main channel through/off the insert jacks (plug in an insert cable halfway and feed the signal to the next adjacent channel), or by copying the channel over (I think you can do this on the Status). Pan the main channel up center, the next adjacent channel to the left and another one to the right. Then EQ to taste for a bigger, spread-out sound. I've used this trick to fatten elec, acoustic tracks, & piano. Have fun, they dont call it playing for nuthin.

[Emperator]

Try adding a second mic. Varying distances and place. Start about 6 to 10 feet away in front. Use a large condenser like the TLM193. That will help get the ambient character. Move it or check for phase with a phase switch. Better to try just moving at first. Try listening for a good spot that sounds nice with your ear first. If it's you just you setting up the mic's try listening with headphones. If you have somebody there that can move the mic while you listen on the control room monitors that is very helpful. Ambient room mics are quite often a good idea in your recordings. Sometimes in the strangest places like bouncing off of a live wall. Usually require a high quality mic like a condenser. Because it really needs to pick up a lot of fine detail. Not the solution by itself but it helps fill in the ambience of detail for the close up mic.

On the amp side if you can have him set up and play and get a balance with the band before you record his sound. Then recording his amp without their sound you would get the best of both worlds sonic balance of the band perspective with seperation. That's why Rhythm tracks played and recorded with seperation all at once has always been proven to be so effective. You get a group perspective where the sounds and performance are done in relationship to each other. Even their act of balancing their playing and levels through headphones will go a long way towards doing the mix work for you in advance. Seperation with gobos and baffling or other rooms allow for clearer recording with a reduction of phase problems between mics and sources. IMO.

[gtrmac]

Does the amp sound good in the room? This is the place I would start.

 

I read that Jimi Hendrix often recorded his Marshall with one condenser mic about 8 feet away from the amp. For whatever that's worth.

 

I would put up several mics and try combinations of two at a time and see if I came up with something. I would definately use a 57 and I have been wanting to use an M-88 for a long time but I can't get my hands on one. I would definately put a Neumann in the room maybe with the C-3000 and see which one works better. Hell, I would even put the D-112 up close and see if that worked because I always put an EV RE-20 up close if I have one and this is another mic that has good low end. I usually have three or four mics on a guitar amp and I mix 'em until I hear something I like. Try a compresser on the ambient mic if you want to bring out the room more too.

 

Of course this is all just in the way of tossing out some ideas without having any idea what's actually going on with the song and how the guy sounds, the room, etc.

[DC]

The Beyer should warm things up. Try it on the best sounding speaker up close. Remember that moving from center to the outside edge of the speaker can make huge tonal differences.