gcerq Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Here's the dilemma: Today I went to two music shops and tried a Yamaha AES1500, Fender Strat Custom Shop and a Cort Larry Corriel model. They set me up with a Peavey Valve amp in one shop and a Fender valve amp on the other. The guitars all had nice tone of course (despite being different, specially the strat) but as I played and played I couldn't find where the $1500 + price tag could be justified. I mean, the Fender costs $3500!! Then I got home and played my trusted guitar (Washburn SB30, two humbuckers, PRS like shape, cost me $600 ten years ago) plugged into my old Peavey amp and I couldn't find an excuse to fork out that kind of money! Sounds just as good, sustainy, fat bottom... If I play the guitar through my Zoom 9000 processor it just sucks! Horrible synthetic tone this thing has. Plugged directly to the amp it sounds sweet. So the dillema is what should I buy to improve my tone? Thus far I have come to the conclusion that the Zoom is definetely crap and is out of the equation, same for my Jim Dunlop Wha pedal which is too noisy. If I had a crap guitar there would be no question and a better axe would be the option but.... I'm more inclined to buy a good FX processor and maybe a decent valve amp. The two would both still cost me at least $500 less than buying a new guitar, and I get to keep my current guitar and my Yamaha APX accoustic I would have to sell to buy one of the guitars I mentioned above. Don't get me wrong, someday I will have the money to buy a second guitar and then I will buy a dream axe. I'm taking my time and doing a lot of shop/web research so I would also like to have your oppinions on this.... Cheers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickerman Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Hey, if your guitar sounds good and more importantly FEELS good, by all means, go for a tube amp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 I can't help but think that a lot of guitars today are made for collectors and not players. I once was trying a pre amp in a store and the guy asked me what sort of pickups I had on my guitar and I said EMG actives. He handed me this super custom Jackson thing with EMGs and a $2400.00 price tag. It played okay, but no where near as good as an over 2 grand guitar should in my book. Just gotta find what works for you. -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManInTheBox Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 In my opinion, if I were you, and you like the way the guitar sounds, then get the Peavey Classic. It sounds as good as many more expensive amps, I just don't see any reason to spend more than that. It's loud enough, to handle most situations. As far as guitars go, You do understand of course that Americans demand alot for their time. A handbuilt American guitar is going to cost you a shit load. They have to feed their families too. So when companies like Fender or Jackson ask for two grand for a handbuilt custom, I have no problem with that. I won't buy it, but I hope someone will. I definitely wouldn't spend $3500 on a custom if I don't get a say-so in how it is built. Now Gibson and PRS wanting $2500 for a mass produced guitar is something else. I saw a beautiful Standard at a guitar shop a few weeks ago, they wanted $2300. I will not find another that looks like that one anywhere, but it won't make me a better player. I do agree that a Les Paul has a unique tone, but is it worth twice the price of a strat? I don't think so. If the tone is in the wood, then any mahogany bodied guitar with a maple cap should get you in the ballpark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 If the tone is in the wood, then any mahogany bodied guitar with a maple cap should get you in the ballpark. With guitars, there's definitely a law of diminishing returns when it comes to price/quality. A $400 guitar probably IS 100% better than a $200 guitar. However a $2000 guitar is not necessarily 100% better than a $1000 ax. You may pay a lot of money for marginally better materials and worksmanship (not to mention cosmetics). That being said, when you spend $2000+ on a guitar, you're buying (or at least should be) a guitar with no flaws - one that stays in tune no matter what, has perfect fretwork, sounds great at all volumes, etc. When you play it, you get to forget about it - the tool becomes invisible. So while a mahogony guitar with a maple cap might get you a Les Paul sound, it may still have some buzzing frets, dead spots, and a 3rd string that keeps slipping. My PRS was expensive but it's also the only guitar that I haven't modified and after 10 years has had no problems. In the end though, whatever works and feels comfortable is what you should use. gcerq: Get a good tube amp before you get an fx processor. It will go a lot further towards giving you a happening tone. I'll even go so far as to say that the amp is more important than the guitar towards getting a good sound. The Peavey Classic 30s are good unless they break (they're notoriously difficult to service). Fender makes a lot of nice tube amps in different price ranges and I've heard a lot of great things about the Reverend Hellhound. Good luck. "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManInTheBox Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a genuine Gibson Les Paul, Just can't Swing it right now. One day. Another thing, I started playing Fender and Fender copies, so a Les Paul feels kinda awkward to me. My Flying V on the hand feels like an old girlfriend (the tele is like my wife). I also believe more of your sound is going to be in your amp, more than your guitar. While it is common for a guitar player to use different guitars on stage, it is less common to see them swap amps. Not saying it doesn't happen. I can't think of Jimi using anything other than a Marshall, but I've seen pictures of him with Es335s, Flying Vs etc. ZakkWylde uses marshalls exclusively, so does Slash. Marty Friedman(from Megadeath) dumped Marshall in favor of Crate BluesVoodoos(yeah). He could have jus incorporated it into his sound, but he got rid of it all together. Joe Satriani, exclusively Marshall, Steve Vai exclusively Carvin,Eddie Exclusively Peavey, etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Eric Johnson likes to have an A/B amp setup, both on record and live. For the kind of money you`re talking about ($2,000+), you should and can have a guitar hand built, from scratch. If you want the universality (for parts, etc.) of a mass-market brand, that`s your choice. But I know a great site where you can check out handmade electrics and acoustics from around the world. If you`re interested in a temporary measure before researching tube amps, I would suggest the valvuator from VHT. It`s a buffered preamp that`s designed to maintain signal integrity against the squashing normally encountered with effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 I say, just forget about all the FX. for a while. Until you, the guitar, and the amp are in blissful communion. Then add FX and see how fast your tone dies! Or not- those FX are the keepers, those rarities. If you really dig the guitar, look to the amp next. I'm really loving these low wattage tube amps where you can floor the thing and bathe in power amp tone without going deaf. You'll be the most popular guitarist around! I'm loving a tricked out Gibson Goldtone, and that Univalve thing Myles is hyping seems like the right approach. A/B amp setup is an obvious one for clean to gain switching with an A/B box. I mostly just work what I have, wrestling all kinds of tone out of it, within it's limits. I'm OK with limits. It doesn't have to do everything, just be a solid musical partner. My two bits. A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcerq Posted July 2, 2002 Author Share Posted July 2, 2002 I must confess i'm trying to be rational but i'm more and more inclined to buy the Yamaha guitar. I love it! I think about it at night... beautiful finish, tone, looks... If I buy it I think I cannot go past it whithout picking it up and play a little (and the shop will sell it for $1400). Besides I think it's a nice balance between a mass produced guitar and a custom made one (which should cost a fortune). It's very hard to come by one and it's a numbered guitar. After all, 20 years down the road it will still be as good as ever (same for the amp). As for the FX 3, 4 years and it's time to change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylver Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 I agree with what Gabriel said about diminishing returns.(He really knows his shit, btw. One of the most knowledgable about guitar equipment here on this forum) Shelling out more than $1000 on any guitar or amp if your budget is tight is unecessary. But hey, if you are having wet dreams about a guitar, I guess you need to pick it up. I also agree with Ted, who said that A tube amp is a better investment than fx. A guitar into a nice tube amp(Peavy, Carvin and Fender all make quality products in the sub $500 range) makes all the difference in your tone. Use that as a building block and add effects sparinngly, have a specific reason for using them, and pick good ones. I think that pure guitar tone is about to come back in vogue in a big way in all genres of music. But, Gabriel, Ted and I are all tone snobs (each in our different ways), so take it with a grain of salt. I really don't know what to put here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboDog Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 My first question would be... "Why are you buying NEW gear?" Buy USED! You get twice the quality for the same price. Guitars aren't like cars, with thousands of moving mechanical parts and the potential to need thousands of dollars in repair work. The only difference between new and used guitars is aesthetic. If you can handle a few belt scratches or some nicks, you'll save hundreds. Amps too. Although there is certainly a lot more going on inside an amp than a guitar, you can still tell a lot by demo-ing the amp. Let me say this about Peavey tube amps, they are great buys and they have been rock solid for the past several years. A/B amp setups don't only get you clean/dirty or wet/dry options. You can get a "stereo" clean/clean or dirty/real dirty or whatever. Hell, you can get 2 used Peavey Classic 30's for about $550 -$600. A/B them on stage with different settings and tubes and you'll spend months discovering new sounds. My advice would be to try to find a used Rivera R30, R50 or Chubster for around $500. Or a used Mesa Boogie DC-3, DC-5, or Subway Rocket for approx. the same. These amps (to me) are a big step up from Peavey, Fender and Marshall low end tube amps (although the Peavey Delta Blues intrigues me). You can get a ton of tones from these amps. Somebody on this forum once pointed out...You can better tone from a crappy guitar thru a great amp than you can a great guitar through a crappy amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 ""Why are you buying NEW gear?" Buy USED! You get twice the quality for the same price. Guitars aren't like cars, with thousands of moving mechanical parts and the potential to need thousands of dollars in repair work. The only difference between new and used guitars is aesthetic. If you can handle a few belt scratches or some nicks, you'll save hundreds." Yes! And you find out whether it's a player or not (that important intangible) and how it holds up after a year or more- new guitars change, not all of them in the way you want. A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcerq Posted July 2, 2002 Author Share Posted July 2, 2002 I agree, buying used can save you a lot and you get more bang for your buck. Trouble is you can't find these guitars for sale (AES1500). People who have tend to keep them has someone here said. I tend to do a lot of research, get some advice from more seasoned players (as in here) try things out but I guess passion must struck a role here to As for the amp I'll have to buy it later but I've tried the Peavey Classic 50 valve amp I liked it a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboDog Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 If you have pawn shops within reach, visit them frequently. Eventually, you'll find a real nice axe for low dollars. You may find a real nice deal, like an American Hamer for 300-400$ (a friend of mine has a mint one from a pawnshop). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 (In an effort to put in balance my on topic vs. off topic posts...) Originally posted by gcerq: plugged into my old Peavey amp and I couldn't find an excuse to fork out that kind of money! Sounds just as good, sustainy, fat bottom... So the dillema is what should I buy to improve my tone? In order of "Effectiveness in Changing Your Tone": 1) Amp 2) Speakers 3) Pickups 4) Guitar 5) Strings 6) Picks 7) Cabling (only if you use more than about 18' worth) I spent my money first on getting the amp set up I wanted, which I now have (I've got 1 of basically everything I want except an AC30; which is partially covered by other amps I have). Speakers - Vintage 30's imo, except Greenbacks for some things. Guitar - John Suhr or Tom Anderson, there's no point in wasting your money on anything else. Pickups - Suhr's PAF. Strings - DR, D'Addario otherwise. Picks - depends on the type of sound you want. Cables - doesn't matter unless you run a lot of them, then George L's definitely sounds better. You're only part of the way there if you don't have the whole thing taken care of IMO. Which is very annoying. Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcerq Posted July 5, 2002 Author Share Posted July 5, 2002 I got share this! Bought my baby today! Can´t put it down now. Yamaha AES1500... sounds sweet even through a crappy zoom 9000 and my solid state Peavey Express. Wonderful sound unplugged... Next step: a tube amp! Also got to think about some effects pedals. I think the following are crucial: 1 - Compressor 2 - Delay 3 - Chorus and/or Flanger But wouldn't 3 pedals cost as much as a FX processor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc taz Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Oh man... Am I ever happy with my stuff! Though I'd like to get a new electric (preferably a Les Paul-type guitar; my current one is a 1992 Ibanez RG560), I'd rather get a good tube amp. While getting a good used one sounds great, I'm more than willing to get a new one. A nice new Mesa F-50 combo would be nice. Great features for recording, along with the tone that'll take me from everything to clean jazz, rock crunch and blistering death metal! IMHO most of the Mesas meet this need for me, without having to lug along so many amps. sevenstring.org profile my flickr page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Congradulations! Always a good thing when another guitar finds a good home. Also got to think about some effects pedals. I think the following are crucial: 1 - Compressor 2 - Delay 3 - Chorus and/or Flanger Make sure you get the amp first. Icing is good but cake is more important. "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarzan Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 mmmmmmmmmmmmm cake ....drool...... http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=193274 rock it, i will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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