JimK Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 First, let me go on record as saying that I'm not trying to start a fight between guitar players and drummers. So please, let's try to keep this on topic Ok, here's the situation. A coworker has a 15 year old son who's been playing the guitar for about a year. He has a mexican strat with a 15 watt solid state amp. The kid's been pushing for a new amp. He wants something with 100 watts because "Dad, I can't be heard over the drummer." I told my coworker that 100 watts is crazy and that 15 to 20 watts would do (depending on how loud the drummer would play). I also pointed out that with the smaller amp you could afford a good tube amp (the son was looking at another solid-state to keep the cost down), the amp wouldn't be so heavy, and you could crank it more easily and good some great tone (try cranking 100 watts in a garage). I recommended the son try a Fender Blues Junior. He convinced dad to buy a used Twin Reverb for $700. Heck, for $700 or so, he could've looked at a Hot Rod Deville, too. So, what's your opinions on this? In an effort to improve the responsiveness of e-mail for everyone, the e-mail servers will be out of service. We are hopeful that this change will improve the performance of e-mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Unless you're playing on huge stages, 25 TUBE watts will keep up with any drummer easily. Tube amps sound twice as loud as solid state amps. Don't know why, but you can put a meter on em and if they're both putting out 50 watts, the tube amp will sound WAY louder. I think a Twin is overkill unless the kid's into jazz. It's still a lot of amp and it'll wipe out a drummer. Sounds like volume wars are coming. -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Unless he wants a clean sound (and what 15 year old does?), the Twin is overkill. 25-30 watts is perfect. "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 OUCH.....now the kid will be cranking a twin to get it to "barely" overdrive.....talk about loud as @#$%. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_dup3 Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 (1)Loud enough to bear this sticker: CAUTION: May emit notes unexpectedly DO NOT STAND IN AIRWAVE ! (2)Loud enough to stop Ted Nugent in his tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Worthington Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Explain to him that if it was a bass amp, then 100 watts makes sense. Lower frequencies require more power, especially when trying to keep it as clean as possible. A guitarist doesn't need as much power as a bassist, because the sound isn't as deep, AND it needn't be as clean. In fact, most electric guitarists want an edge, achieved by pushing the amp towards the edge of its power range. What he needs is in the range of 35 - 60 watts. I think he'd be surprised how loud a 35-watt amp can be, especially with overdrive. Also, keep in mind amp placement. Put it on a chair, tilt it, aim it towards your face, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickerman Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 I think 50 watts (tube) with a 2x12 is perfect. Loud as you'll ever need. I don't understand all these kids with their 100 watt Marshalls or Mesas and 4x12 cabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 The 4x12 is a tonal device as much as a volume device. Even when I'm using my little Fender Princeton amp I like to run it thru a 4x12. There's some correlation between the cabinet size and the 'size' of the tone. Originally posted by Wickerman: I think 50 watts (tube) with a 2x12 is perfect. Loud as you'll ever need. I don't understand all these kids with their 100 watt Marshalls or Mesas and 4x12 cabs. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 you may want to remind him that hearing damage in humans is IRREVERSIBLE. It`s not just a matter of playing-every time he pulls out his cable while turned up, etc, it`s bye bye hearing sensitivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrmac Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 I think it was mentioned here recently that 100 watts is only twice as loud as 10 watts. It is not ten times as loud as some people, especially young guitarists, seem to think. I use a twenty watt amp for playing in a small club now. I used a 50 watt Marshall with a 4X12 for years and it was often too loud. Mac Bowne G-Clef Acoustics Ltd. Osaka, Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey_dup1 Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 I just bought a Fender DeVille 410 and that sucker is LOUD! It's rated at 60 watts (tube) but I can't imagine a young guy needing more than that unless he's playing large halls. Have him look at a used Fender Deluxe (40 watt tube) on ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickerman Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 Originally posted by gtrmac@hotmail.com: I think it was mentioned here recently that 100 watts is only twice as loud as 10 watts. It is not ten times as loud as some people, especially young guitarists, seem to think. I use a twenty watt amp for playing in a small club now. I used a 50 watt Marshall with a 4X12 for years and it was often too loud.Exactly! I keep having to tell friends that. Even after being told many times, they still don't get it... (I have some rather dumb friends) Kids just don't get that it's not as much the number of watts, but the number of speakers you can drive that gives volume. Then there's the whole drop C phase where they're only doing it to "sound heavy" and because they're all LAZY TALENTLESS LITTLE... ... I won't get on to that whole rant... Sorry folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 I'm playing clubs and small venues with my 60W Flexton II. More than enough is all I can say. I haven't cranked it past 5 yet Maybe that's because I 'like to hear myself through the monitors I owned Marshall with 4x12 and I can confirm that bigger cab gives you more "volume"... But 'it's done deal. Kid's got new toy (too much for him, if you ak me). If he don't fry that amp, he'll have sth to grow old with If it sounds god, just play the darn thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimK Posted May 30, 2002 Author Share Posted May 30, 2002 Thanks for the replys everyone. You confirmed what I thought: a small tube amp is plenty for getting over a drummer. The kid's got band practice on Saturday. Wait until he tries lugging that beast to his friend's house His dad is hoping he returns it. I doubt it. What 15 year old is smart enough to realize that he's got to much amp? In an effort to improve the responsiveness of e-mail for everyone, the e-mail servers will be out of service. We are hopeful that this change will improve the performance of e-mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrider Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 His dad is hoping he returns it. I doubt it. What 15 year old is smart enough to realize that he's got to much amp?Dad must have money to burn, blindly shelling out $700 like that. The kid really got that one past him. If he likes Fenders, the 45w Hot Rod DeLuxe would have been a better choice. Manageable volume and has that 3rd "extra drive" channel. I have the 2x12 60w DeVille and my bandmates regularly moan about my excessive stage volume. The volume knob never even gets to 2. One of these days I'm gonna change my evil ways... one of these days... http://www.emotipad.com/emoticons/Band.gifhttp://www.weidenbach.net/images/storage/headbang.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 Carvin's new 16-watter looks nice : } All the mentions of knob positions really don't mean much. Amp manufacturers tend to "front-load" the taper to make the amps seem tuffer than the competition's. But smoother response curves on the knobs makes them nicer for tweaking. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrider Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 His dad is hoping he returns it. I doubt it. What 15 year old is smart enough to realize that he's got to much amp?Dad must have money to burn, blindly shelling out $700 like that. The kid really got that one past him. If he likes Fenders, the 45w Hot Rod DeLuxe would have been a better choice. Manageable volume and has that 3rd "extra drive" channel. I have the 2x12 60w DeVille and my bandmates regularly moan about my excessive stage volume. The volume knob never even gets to 2. One of these days I'm gonna change my evil ways... one of these days... http://www.emotipad.com/emoticons/Band.gifhttp://www.weidenbach.net/images/storage/headbang.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 Originally posted by Outrider: The volume knob never even gets to 2.My point exactly If it sounds god, just play the darn thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.