pickups

[mikey_dup1]

I've got a peavey falcon custom (actually a very sweet guitar)and want to replace the pickups. I was thinking about fender noiseless but am open to other suggestions. I play mostly blues, alternative country, and some rock. Let me know what you think.

[GuitarWolf]

well... im not even close to being an expert but from the guitars ive tried, i thought Seymour Duncan pickups sounded great!

[Wickerman]

Word to K-Zoo bro! As far as single coils go, I love Fender's Vintage Noiseless as well as DiMarzio's Virtual Vintage Blues and Red Velvet models were very nice. I like a warm, but punchy blues tone and those gave it to me easily...

[GuitarWolf]

Originally posted by Wickerman:

[QB]Word to K-Zoo bro!QB]

heh... i havent heard/seen someone say/type "word" in a while!

[Gator Wing]

Check out: http://www.kinman.com/index.htm

[baronedo]

Mikey,

This is a topic I feel very qualified to comment on in that I have just gone through a pup replacement for my Fender Strat.

 

I reviewed much data and user feedback on what is available and my opinion is as follows:

 

Stay away from the Fender noiseless (or any Fender Pups for that matter). These "noiseless" pups are in fact based on an age old stacked humbucker design which all of the compression flaws that go with it. I have yet to find an off the shelf Fender with great pups - this is something that Fender should take seriously and fix as pup design is NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

 

If you are searching for quiet pups that are of single coil size, I would also stay away from the Seymour Duncan and Dimarzion Noiseless stacked humbuckers (e.g. the Virtual Vintages, etc). Like the Fender Noiseless, they are also just stacked humbuckers with the excess compression shortcomings.

 

Here's what I finally decided on. I bought a set of Kinman Model FV HMS (i.e. the Hank Marvin modern set). These pups are True single coils but are noiseless via a proprietary process. The result is quiet single coil tone without noise. Don't be confused by "Hank Marvin" name. These are not twangy but rather are more ballsey and warmer than Kinman's AVn Blues Set (which I had previously tried). Whatever model you decide, Kinman makes great pups and are worth the extra price. I am saving for another set of FV HMS for my other Strat.

 

I play many of the same styles of music as you (e.g. blues, blues/rock country and country rock)

and these Kinmans will give you any sound you need, especially when you modify your wiring as below.

 

The other thing I would higly recommend that greatly enhances a Strat are the Strat Pickup wiring changes recommended by Kinman, (i.e. the treble bypass mod on the volume pot and the master tone control / neck pup mix control mod) which greatly enhance the tone available from a Strat. (See my prior posting on our Guitar Forum on this on Recommended Strap Pickup Wiring Changes and the Wirograms on the Kinman website).

 

Check out Kinman's website at kinman.com

[g.]

Kinman or Bill Lawrence . Period.

[baronedo]

Greenboy,

I noted that you mentioned Bill Lawrence pups. I did check into Bill's pup line and they are very affordable. Although I've never owned any, the common feeback I received was that they were a bit trebly sounding, which was the problem I had with my stock Fender pups. The Kinman FV-HMS set I replaced them with have a massive sound but not so dark as to lose trebles, but without the ice pick in your ear highs. They both kick you in the butt from the bottom end but also scream on the top if needed.

 

Your input on Bill's pups would be appreciated as I did have the chance to talk to Bill on the phone earlier this year about his Strat pup line and he was very cordial and patient to talk with.

[g.]

Lancer: I noted that you mentioned Bill Lawrence pups. I did check into Bill's pup line and they are very affordable. Although I've never owned any, the common feeback I received was that they were a bit trebly sounding, which was the problem I had with my stock Fender pups.

Bill's whole philosophy of single-coil sized designs is to make noiseless pickups with response characteristics that are really interactive with playing/picking technique. They are, unlike "stacks", they are really responsive to nuance, without the compression artifacting and the slight low and high rolloffs that stacks exhibit.

 

If the L-80 or L-290 Lawrences were sounding bity and thin to these guys I'd suggest they (a) didn't have their pickup height adjustment right. Kinman and Lawrence are both huge on doing proper setups because they both make pickups that are very revealing of the tonal changes that can make, and not just the volume diff, or (b) they have their amps dialed in for something that is treble-deficient; then when something that isn't is the source, it becomes rather obvious. Suggest that the tone knobs on the amp are there for a reason ; }

 

If they were actually using real Lawrences and not the lookalike knockoffs that some crapheads are selling, and they were dialed in decent, I'd say the 290 would be the way to go. It's more like the Kinman / Hank Marvin modern sound you are using.

 

The Kinman FV-HMS set I replaced them with have a massive sound but not so dark as to lose trebles, but without the ice pick in your ear highs. They both kick you in the butt from the bottom end but also scream on the top if needed.

I haven't worked with the AVn-64, but I've used the 63 in the bridge with 56 at the neck and 62 at the middle. And the output match is great with switch position 2 and 4 to die for. I've also used the SC which is the Texas sound without noise.

 

Your input on Bill's pups would be appreciated as I did have the chance to talk to Bill on the phone earlier this year about his Strat pup line and he was very cordial and patient to talk with.

Bill is a veritable god of pickup design and has the history and patents to prove it. Him and Greg Kinman seem to have found slightly different formulas for noise-free pickups that are better than authentic in that they embody the single coil sound and flexibility and picking response without the downside of single-coils.

[g.]

Carvin has also got a new slim humbucker for single coil pickguards I've been trying to get a friend to let me put into his NAFTAcaster. He got a Texas Special for the bridge and didn't think it was an improvement.

[ManInTheBox]

Yeah, whatever. I happen to love the Fender vintage noiseless pickups. I am more into heavier music, never use the bridge for clean sounds anyway, and I love em.

I just bought a set for my tele, and there was a problem with my bridge pickup, I took it back, and they had me rockin in minutes. Try that with a mail order pickup.

I can see how the compression problem might be an issue, for that chicken picken sound, but if you are looking for balls, it might be a good idea to add a little compression. Moral, don't let some tech sheet sway your decision one way or the other(unless of course we are talking about reliability) When tone is the subject at hand, use your ears. Go to your local fender dealer, and listen to the vintage noisless, if you like, get them, if you don't, then check out their guitar with the mail order pickup in it. if they don't have one in stock, then blindly send your money in the mail or internet, and try to live with your decision when it gets in.

[g.]

Ah, the old Mail Order Is Bad ploy ; }

 

I've ordered from Kinman's site directly, and I've gotten them from a US dealer. I've gotten Bill Lawrence's stuff over the phone. Both companies have a rep for delivering and backing their product.

 

But while we are on the subject of mail order, many of those companies are good about support. Some of my fave MO companies have great guarantees and have store fronts as well (American Music Seattle, Carvin).

[g.]

Another thing I like about Kinmans and Lawrences is the decreased magnetic pull inherent in the design makes for great sustain. I've really noticed this on Strats, whose B and E strings tend to die out quicker when you get up the neck aways. I also did some comparisions on barre chords and was liking the extra hold they had.

[g.]

tundrkys: Yeah, whatever. I happen to love the Fender vintage noiseless pickups. I am more into heavier music, never use the bridge for clean sounds anyway, and I love em.

The last generation of Fender noisless pickups I have spent any time with were manufactured by Lace (Sensor). They were not as noisless as some of the competition, and seemed rather sterile to my ears. I don't know who is making the vintage noiseless ones for Fender now -- but Bill Lawrence has designed pickups for them in the past and his design graces the Roscoe Beck 5-string bass...

 

I can see how the compression problem might be an issue, for that chicken picken sound, but if you are looking for balls, it might be a good idea to add a little compression.

Well, that type of compression (which is not the same as a compression unit) before the gain stage is a matter of taste and application, granted. But even with heavy overdrive I've always liked pickups that imparted more detail according to touch/picking technique... I've always liked that about single coils -- and often as well liked a humbucker at the bridge to get full-on distortion.

 

Moral, don't let some tech sheet sway your decision one way or the other(unless of course we are talking about reliability) When tone is the subject at hand, use your ears.

Yep, it's always about the ears. I wasn't working from a "spec sheet" when I decided to check out Lawrence or Kinman some time back either. What I was looking for was someone who was coming at noiseless tone from a different vector than than companies were in the practice of doing industry-wide, because I knew I didn't like the sound of their products as much as I did standard single coil winds -- or some humbuckers, for that matter.

[lrbreez]

Rio Grande pickups.

Buddy

[gtrmac]

I love Kinman's website. I would like to get a chance to try out his pickups but he does not have any distribution in Japan yet. I would hesitate to drop $260 on a set of pickups without hearing them first though. One thing that impressed me was that he was granted a US Patent for his design. The sound is the bottom line though. There is a lot of variety in his pickup sets too. I wouldn't be confident in my choice without some listening time. I have Lindy Fralin custom wound P'ups in my Strat now which I really like but I wouldn't miss the hum.

[baronedo]

gtrmac,

I wouldn't hesitate in trying Kinman's. You can describe your guitar in detail and the sound you are looking for to Chris Kinman at chris@kinman.com and he will provide you a pup recommendation which will work.

 

I had a Strat Plus which sounded a little thin (largely due to Lace Sensor pups which I hated) and Chris suggested the Hank Marvin set (FV -HMS) to fatten up the tone. Unfortunately, I misplaced his email message a month later when I decided to order and mistakenly ordered the AVn Blues set. There was nothing wrong with the AVn Blues set and these were 200% better than the Lace Sensor pups. However, on my particular guitar they still laced some of the low end fattness I wanted (larged due to my guitars maple neck and swamp ash body which tend to give a brighter tone). Anyway, I apologized to Kinman for my ordering screw-up and they said, no problem, return them to us and we'll send you the FV-HMS set which they promptly did. The sound I have now is awsome. I can get a massive tone while not being muddy and it retains the right amount of brightness. The wiring changes I mentioned in my earlier reply above further enhance the tonal palaette you can get.

 

Anyway, talk to Chris Kinman and I'm sure he will continue to stand behind his products. I am saving for another set as the tonal enhancement is well worth it.

[g.]

If you don't try new things you don't go anywhere.

 

If you don't take risks you don't go anywhere.

 

If you think the disses and thumbs-ups from people on the internet are a substitute for actual experience, you don't deserve to go anywhere ; }