mars_dup1 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 [quote] "Biological weapons are among the most dangerous weapons in the world today. They are infectious diseases, living organisms. Some are very contagious. Unlike any other weapons, biological weapons are alive and know how to replicate. They can make copies of themselves inside the human body. A nuclear bomb can't make copies of itself. From a small point of release, a bioweapon can jump from person to person in a explosive chain of lethal infection. A bioweapon makes no distinction between soldier and civilian, rich and poor, ordinary people or national leaders: we are all equally vulnerable. " - Richard Preston Testimony before the Senate Subcommitee on Terrorism April 1998[/quote]Reading just one fact-based chapter ("Invisible History II") of Richard "Hot Zone" Preston's novel "The Cobra Event" did more to convince me that Iraq is a [i]very[/i] serious threat to the entire world than all the posturing and speeches by Bush, Powell et al. Only problem is, he also convinced me that Iran, Syria and especially Russia remain serious threats as well! Anybody care to explain why otherwise rational, highly-educated human beings would choose to monkey around with these incredibly dangerous "slate-wiper" "extinction-level event" viruses? (BTW - This doesn't mean that I think war is the best way to deal with all of this.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I've been terrified about the threat of biological weapons ever since seeing "The Andromeda Strain" when I was a kid. True, it was about a mythical space virus, but they confined it in a bioweapons lab. Then, reading "The Stand". I mean, nukes are bad, but I have a feeling like I'd rather be standing at ground zero when the big one falls than watching everyone collapse of plague. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars_dup1 Posted February 17, 2003 Author Share Posted February 17, 2003 "The Hot Zone" (nonfiction about Ebola) is the scariest book I ever read. Apparently, Steven King thinks so as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/other/nbc.htm This Cobra Event is much more interesting IMHO :) [img]http://www.ne.jp/asahi/yamakyo/page/photo/j.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittanylips Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Preston is a sensationalist, a novelist, and not a scientist. There is nothing he loves to do more than describe in vivid detail the sloughing off and bleeding out of body parts, and the meaty rampages of emerging viruses. However, he knows a lot of scientists in the field, and received good cooperation in writing the Cobra Event. He too cooperated, agreeing to alter the nature of the jerry-rigged virus in the story in order to make it less realistic, and less of a cookbook to a potential terrorist. An interesting bit of trivia about The Cobra Event is that Clinton became obsessed with the book, and virtually required everyone around him to read it. -Peace, Love, and Brittanylips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars_dup1 Posted February 17, 2003 Author Share Posted February 17, 2003 Good article, good advice. However, it's clear to me that he doesn't know too much about bioweapons. [quote] If biological warfare is so easy as the TV makes it sound, why has Saddam Hussein spent twenty years, millions, and millions of dollars trying to get it right? If you're clean of person and home you eat well and are active you're gonna live. [/quote]Apparently Saddam spent his millions on building reinforced facilities. The Iraqui's sample of botulinum toxin (100,000 times more toxic than the Sarin used by Aum Shinrikyo)only cost them $35 mail-order from the States. Maybe no one, not even Saddam has been crazy enough to use bioweapons as yet. However, as another post somewhere on this board pointed out, Saddam has a history of being "unintentionally suicidal". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 I blame mass media fearmongering for this one [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2771641.stm]21 killed in Chicago club panic[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars_dup1 Posted February 18, 2003 Author Share Posted February 18, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Brittanylips: [b]An interesting bit of trivia about The Cobra Event is that Clinton became obsessed with the book, and virtually required everyone around him to read it. [/b][/quote]Too bad he didn't do anything about it, though. The book also contains an interesting read on French non-cooperation as far as Iraq is concerned. Despite being written in 1998, the phrase "as real as tomorrow's headlines" comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittanylips Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by mars: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Brittanylips: [b]An interesting bit of trivia about The Cobra Event is that Clinton became obsessed with the book, and virtually required everyone around him to read it. [/b][/quote]Too bad he didn't do anything about it, though. [/b][/quote]He did to some extent. However, many of his efforts at the time were rail-roaded by the impeachment proceedings against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittanylips Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by S.A.L.: [b]I blame mass media fearmongering for this one [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2771641.stm]21 killed in Chicago club panic[/url] [/b][/quote]What would you have done if you were in that club? From what I understand, eyewitness accounts describe the bouncer spraying the crowd with mace. The owner who was cited for fire violations (i.e. not enough exits) and forbidden to open up that floor to the public, along with the bouncer who indescriminately and without provocation sprayed customers (aside from the girls who were fighting) should and probably will be charged with manslaugher. -Peace, Love, and Brittanylips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 [quote] What would you have done if you were in that club? [/quote]Do you mean what would I do if I was in the middle of a panicing crowd, or how would I react to someone yelling that there was a terrorist attack as a result of some idiot spraying mace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by mars: [b]"The Hot Zone" (nonfiction about Ebola) is the scariest book I ever read. Apparently, Steven King thinks so as well.[/b][/quote]I have not read that, but I will soon. Ebola is some scary crap. Fortunately, most viral hemorrhagic fevers (Ebola, Marburg, Crimean-Congo, etc) have limited environmental tolerances which makes them very difficult to weaponize. God help us if Iraq or any terrorists figure that one out. :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 [quote][b] [quote] If biological warfare is so easy as the TV makes it sound, why has Saddam Hussein spent twenty years, millions, and millions of dollars trying to get it right? If you're clean of person and home you eat well and are active you're gonna live. [/quote][/b][/quote]I'm completely fucked... :freak: Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thrashole Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 The hot zone actually was the inspiration for one of my songs. Ebola is definitely some scary stuff. The rainforest has been responsible for the scariest biological agents around. AIDS, Ebola,Marburg,etc. Reach out and grab a clue. Something Vicious My solo crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittanylips Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by S.A.L.: [b] [quote] What would you have done if you were in that club? [/quote]Do you mean what would I do if I was in the middle of a panicing crowd, or how would I react to someone yelling that there was a terrorist attack as a result of some idiot spraying mace?[/b][/quote]I have not heard that the panic was a result of someone yelling that there was a terrorist attack. As I understand it, the bouncer started spraying mace first at a pair of fighting girls, and then at the crowd. If you were in the room, what would you have done (and why)? In other words, you blame fear mongering and mass media, but I think the culprits are: 1) the idiot bouncer whose actions were reckless, 2) the club owner who opened up the floor despite instructions from the fire department not to do so, and 3) the individuals in the crowd who had no regard for the lives of those around them as they fled the building. -Peace, Love, and Brittanylips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars_dup1 Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe: [b] [quote]Originally posted by mars: [b]"The Hot Zone" (nonfiction about Ebola) is the scariest book I ever read. Apparently, Steven King thinks so as well.[/b][/quote]I have not read that, but I will soon. Ebola is some scary crap. Fortunately, most viral hemorrhagic fevers (Ebola, Marburg, Crimean-Congo, etc) have limited environmental tolerances which makes them very difficult to weaponize. God help us if Iraq or any terrorists figure that one out. :eek: [/b][/quote]Russian scientists figured out how to weaponize Marburg a long time ago. No one seems to know where about half of the scientists from Russia's pre-Glasnost bioweapons program are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars_dup1 Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 Further to the above, do a Google for "Russia + bioweapons + Marburg" and prepare to have a few sleepless nights. Here's just [url=http://www.nap.edu/issues/15.3/p_tucker.htm]one example.[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 I forget who wrote it,but a book called the "Coming Plauge" convinced me that biological weapons are the least of our worries.Just wait till other strains of AIDS and other unknown virusus start hitting us.Since we don't have socialized health care here,count on incubations in the millions in this country and other 3rd world nations first. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 I dunno Mars, it depends what fiction you read. Orwell's [i]1984[/i] is enough to convince me that Bush is a bigger threat than Saddam ;) "That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittanylips Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Alndln Hammer: [b]I forget who wrote it,but a book called the "Coming Plauge" convinced me that biological weapons are the least of our worries.Just wait till other strains of AIDS and other unknown virusus start hitting us.Since we don't have socialized health care here,count on incubations in the millions in this country and other 3rd world nations first.[/b][/quote]At the time it was written, "the Coming Plague" concluded that emerging viruses were the scarriest thing out there, but developments in the past several years have changed the equation. At this point, the weaponization of biological agents seems to be the greater threat. more recent and "readable" books include "Germs" by Judith Miller (the Times reporter targetted for Anthrax) and "the Demon In the Freezer" by Richard Preston, the guy we're talking about in this thread. -Peace, love, and Brittanylips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Knutson Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Brittanylips: [b]I have not heard that the panic was a result of someone yelling that there was a terrorist attack.[/b][/quote]There is a little section directly below the article called "Were you an eyewitness to the tragedy? Click here to have your say." In this section there are several quotes, including these: [i]"I was there, although downstairs, people made comments like, nerve gas, please get out the way, anthrax, please get out the way, terrorist please get out the way and we just jumped on each other so fast you can't believe it."[/i] James, USA [i]"I was at the club, the people were scared because someone said it was a terrorist gas attack."[/i] Brad James, USA https://bunny.bandcamp.com/ https://theystolemycrayon.bandcamp.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittanylips Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 If the perception that there was an ongoing terrorist attack propelled the stampede, than I stand corrected. However, if the idiot guard didn't spray the crowd with pepper spray, if the idiot owner didn't open up the 2nd floor in violation of fire department orders, if the idiot management hadn't chained shut the other exits, and if the idiots in the club hadn't showed wanton disregard for the lives they were crushing under their feet (EVEN if they believed there was an ongoing terrorist attack), everyone would be just fine. Actual terrorist attacks in night clubs have occurred for many years throughout the world, and many lives have been saved through compassionate behavior among victims. In this case, to attribute the deaths to our current media-fueled-terrorism-hypersensitivity is to ignore a confluence of reprehensible behavior. -Peace, Love, and Brittanylilps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.