Anyone interested in Johnny Smith and his chord/melody jazz guitar style?

[dturner]

Hello all!

 

Over the past year or so I've been learning a number of Johnny Smith's arrangments of tunes such as "Shenandoah", "Round Midnight", "I'm Old Fashioned" and others I can recommend a few good resources and techniques to help with learning these kinds of [brutal and beautiful] arrangements if anyone has an interest in learning to play in this style.

 

By the way, Johnnie is alive and well and resides in Colorado Springs, CO. I have had the pleasure of speaking with Johnny and we have been sharing emails and letters.

 

Dennis

[Tedster]

Man, he's gotta be what, in his 70s at least. I love that kind of stuff. I need to learn some, don't know if I have the discipline...but, I just bought an Epi Dot and it's got a bit of that sweet hollowbody tone. Not like a big one...but a bit...

[pauldil]

About 2 months ago, after watching a Larry Carlton interview where he talked about Johnny and how much of an influence he was, I went out and bought the re-issue of "Moonlight in Vermont" with Stan Getz and also the cd with Johnny and George Van Epps (playing separately). Is this the arrangement of “I'm old fashioned” that you mention in your post? What a beautiful piece!! I was always aware of him, but have recently developed a real appreciation of his style. I would definitely be interested in any help in learning more of his style.

[dturner]

Hello Tedster and pauldil,

 

For starters, you will find a great article about Johnny here . And if you'd like, feel free to check out a few samples I put up on a little geocities site to share this music with family and friends. You will find six or seven performances of Johnny's arrangements. And yes pauldil, the arrangement of "I'm Old Fashioned" I learned is from the "Legends" CD [the one with George Van Eps] " And Tedster.... discipline is certainly a consideration. Learning these songs was tough... especially since I don't read music and did it the tried and true way - listen and figure it out. But discipline may not be the right word. I think "investment" may be more appropriate - for me anyway. Yes...time and effort and patience are required, and learning the sequence of chords is one thing and getting them smooth is another [it's a bitch] But I certainly did find that each song became a bit easier as my fingers and mind began to get used to the stretches... both physically and harmonically. In fact, I now find myself starting to come up with lovely chords I've never thought of before [damn...did I just do that?] just from having my head in Johnny's style for a while. Cool stuff. I also have to say though, that the payoff is immense. "Shenandoah" and "Macho's Lullaby" are probably the easiest two songs... and Johnny's arrangements are just beautiful, and it is a total joy to play them... so the investment is worth it. Plus... WHO CARES how long it takes... in any case, your chops and your ear and your melodic sense are going to be stretched and expanded. By the way Tedster... I imagine your Epi will sound great in this style. Two of the songs on the site were performed and recorded on my trusty cheapo Dano U56 reissue.

 

If either of you gents are mac users, go to download.com and DL "Amazing Slow Downer", a wonderful shareware app that will [duh] slow down the tempo of an audio file up to 400 percent while retaining the original pitch. The audio quality starts to suffer at extreme ranges, but is good enought for figuring out chords.. plus, you can make it loop [slowly] over a certain passage. I could never have figure out fingering and such without this program. I imagine there is a Windows version out there somewhere too.

 

More later.

 

Dennis

[dturner]

More thoughts...

 

If you fellows would be interested in learning one [or more] of Johnny's arrangements, I think I can certainly help with that. I'd suggest we begin by picking out one tune from the site, and I will be thrilled to serve as a long distance tutor. I think "Shenandoah" would be a good choice, though "Macho's Lullaby" [a JS composition] is a bit easier. Either way, picking a starting point is the next step. I'd also be pleased to tell you what I have learned about Johnny's approach to chord voicing and some of the cool tricks he employs, and perhaps I could create a chord chart and post it at the site.

 

I spoke in the previous post about investment and payoff -- but one thing I forgot to mention is how studying Johnny's style has improved the other styles [rock, blues, swing, fusion] I also dabble in. Part of the magic to Johnny's vibe is how effin' clean he plays. His control and articulation skills are superb... and as a side benefit to learning Johnny's arrangements, I am seeing a healthy improvement in my overall technique, including control and articulation. Plus... it is soooo nice to be out of the same ole rut... playing the same things in the same way I did twenty years ago.

 

And man... and if you'd like to hear an absolutely gorgeous arrangement, give a listen to Johnny playing "Tenderly" . I have worked out everything up to the sax solo.. and I am now rehearsing it up to performance level. I am really psyched about this tune.

 

Just let me know how you would like to proceed.

 

Dennis

[pauldil]

Thanks for the links to your site, Dennis. I got to hear "I'm Old Fashioned" and was really impressed by how you totally nailed the arrangement Not all of the links were working on your site though, so I didn't get to hear either "Shenandoah" and "Macho's Lullaby". I would love to work on any of those tunes, particularly 'Old Fashioned' or 'Round Midnight'. I've always learned single-line stuff off records, but never chord-melody, although I do have a few tunes that I've arranged myself, so this should be a really good challenge. Thanks for the motivation!

 

Paul

[dturner]

Hey Paul,

 

I am glad you liked "I'm Old Fashioned". We can begin with that one if you like, but it is kind of tough as a starter song in this style. Let me get the links at the site back up so you can hear all the tunes before making a decision if that's ok with you.

 

Just being nosey, what single note stuff have you decoded? I had a Charlie Christian solo habit going for a while and worked out alot of his stuff - which sounds so cool in a rock or jump blues setting. Have you ever heard of Clint Strong? Clint is a monster jazz soloist [was Merle Haggard's guitarist ] and I have a great video where he is showing some killer riffs and phrases. I am looking forward to studying this as well. So much to learn...so little time.

 

I will check out the problems with the links. Thanks for the heads up.

 

Dennis

[pauldil]

Yeah, the Charlie Christian stuff is great! I had learned 'Solo Flight' many years ago. I had also learned a couple of complete Wes solos - "Days of Wine & Roses" from Boss Guitar (killer album!) and also "Tear it down". I also copped a few of Joe Diorio's complete solos from the Sonny Stitt album "Move on over". Other than that, bits and pieces of Coltrane, Bird, Stitt, Joe Pass, Wes, Pat Martino, and a few others. But mostly just certain phrases that I liked, not entire solos. But it's been a while since I've done anything like that, which is why I'm looking forward to working on the JS tunes.

 

Paul

[dturner]

Hi Paul,

 

All the links on my site should be in working order now. If you or anyone has problems downloading, let me know... this is all kind of new to me.

 

The first seven tunes on the site are based on Johnny's arrangements with a few minor changes here and there, and the other three are my own arrangements. "Ocean Lover" is an original tune. And be sure and check out the link for "Tenderly". That one is so beautiful that... well... sniff... ... you know. [nyuk nyuk]

 

Dennis

[pauldil]

Thanks Dennis, your site is working now. I really liked "Ocean Lover". Very tasty stuff there. What are you using on the guitar in the middle part?

 

"Shenandoah" sounds beautiful & so full. Was that your arrangement of "Amazing Grace"? Very nice!

 

I'm trying to put some of my stuff out on mp3.com, so I'll let you know once it's there.

 

I've got some software called "Slow Blast" that I've never really used until this morning (It came bundled with Band-in-a-Box). I did start on "I'm old fashioned", so I may have to pick your brain when I get confused .

 

Paul

[dturner]

Hey Paul!

 

I am glad you liked the tunes. Which part of "Ocean Lover" are you referring to? I am guessing you mean the melody restatement in harmony? If so, that was a fairly simple three part multitracked guitar harmony. I played an Ibanez RG550 thru a Rocktron Voodu Valve to get that tone. The other guitar leads were played on an Epi Chet Atkins nylon string solid body.... an incredible instrument for about two bills and it is as nice as the Gibson version [i've had several]. By the way, this Epi and all the solo electric guitar pieces were recorded direct thru a Presonus MP20 into a Mac G4 based DigiOO1system. I especially like the tone on "I'm Old Fashioned" which was played on a Washburn J10 jazz box [digital pic of J10 post photoshopbastardization at my site] direct into the Presonus. I have yet to find an electric guitar [or mic] that doesn't sound wonderful thru the MP20 direct -- same with the main melody part in "Fever" -- my old mongrel strat thru the MP20.

 

Yeah, that was my arrangement of "Amazing Grace".. .kind of my way of dealing with the Sept. 11 stuff. I can hear a little "Johnny action" going on in the intro... part of the osmosis I spoke of before. I am trying to work up a solo Johnnyesque arrangment for "Danny Boy"... sounds pretty nice so far.

 

You are starting with "I'm Old Fashioned" eh? Good for you! It really is a beautiful arrangement. Here are a couple of tips I learned while working thru these pieces:

 

1. Listen for open strings mixed in with the fretted notes of chords, regardless of where the chords are played on the neck. Your "Slow Blast" program will help with this. Also check if JS is using a drop D tuning. He does that alot.

 

2. After you figure out which notes are being sounded in a specific chord, NEVER assume that the first fingering that works is the right one. Part of Johnny's magic is his fluidity. And I think you will find that some fingerings [maybe the second or third way you have found to execute the chord] will seem odd or hard to play, but may be the correct one for a specific tune or passage. You will always need to consider what chords are before and after the chord you are hunting for. Johnny's voicings are just incredibly clever -- and in some cases he will play a chord at a location on the neck that is not the easiest location to play that chord. But it will always likely fit very well and mesh easily with the chords that comes before and after. Still... I found myself rehearsing the hell out of certain passages and they just would not come together... until I just stopped and wondered if their was an easier way - and had one of those "aha" moments. Plus, if you listen very carefully, you can begin to pick up on whether a specific G note [for example] is being sounded on the first, second or third string, and that can help determine how and where to place the chord.

 

3. Be ready with statements such as "Damn Johnny" and "Jeez Johnny...you bastard...how in the HELL did you do that?" Trust me... you will be "talkin' to Johnny" soon enough.

 

4. After you figure out an entire song, or a long and difficult chord passage... don't believe that little voice in your head that keeps saying "you aint ever gonna be able to play this at speed" Seriously.... some of the changes are pretty brutal... and you'll have to pay them dues. I don't mean to go Guitar 101 on you... you know all this already I am sure. Just remember that each little bit you master contributes not only to the song you are working on, but the whole skill set that makes the next one easier. Pep talk over.

 

Lastly, think about picking up a beater guitar or two... anything with a decent neck. I keep a junk Ovation acoustic in the house [with two teens, a three and six year old and a St. Bernard all running amok in there] , and another junker here in my office. It is amazing how many times I have to cool my heels for five, ten or fifteen minutes over the course of a day. Having an instrument within arms reach helps pass the time AND all that extra woodshedding time adds up. I know this sounds screwy, but it works for me. Plus, I think playing can almost be a form of therapy.

 

Let me know how it is going. Would you like make up a chord chart for "I'm Old Fashioned"? I have never done one, but it sounds like fun.

 

Dennis

[pauldil]

Be ready with statements such as "Damn Johnny" and "Jeez Johnny...you bastard...how in the HELL did you do that?" Trust me... you will be "talkin' to Johnny" soon enough.

You were soooooo right! I didn't realize Johnny had 7 fingers on one hand! So far, it was going really well right up until after the db7, where he starts the gymnastics. I'm hangin in there tho. BTW, I sent you my email.

 

Paul

[dturner]

Hi Paul,

 

Yes... seven fingers... and that 4th joint on each finger helps too. And you just wait, it gets worse... it you get really obsessed with this tune, you will end up shuffling around in robe and slippers with a healthy beard stubble and catatonic look in the eyes whispering "damn you Johnnny... damn you"..ha.

 

Tell you what, since you are doing well, I will hold off on the chord chart. Using the mp3 from my site, let's use the time counter as a reference and you tell me where you are in the tune, and which chord you are referring to.

 

Keep me posted.

 

Dennis

[henryrobinett]

Hey man! That was very cool. I'm Old Fashioned. It sounds like this was a transcription or a worked out solo piece. Very nice arrangement. What axe you playing?

[dturner]

Hey Paul...

 

Just a thought... Have you listened to "Tenderly"? [link above in previous post] That tune has some wide stretches, whereas "I'm Old Fashioned" has lots of chords where the fingertips are bunched very close together in ways God never intended. You might consider working on both tunes at once. I've found that on any of these tunes, when either figuring out chords or rehearsing what I've learned, I can reach a frustration point where further effort is wasted. Switching to another tune for a while breaks the tension. Plus, you are going to LOVE "Tenderly", which has a killer flowing vibe, while IOF is more of a pretty/sweet arrangement. Seriously, some of the chords in "Tenderly", the first time you play them, you'll get this rush of experiencing something exquisitely beautiful... check out the last few measures of "Tenderly" just before the sax solo begins. Johnny plays four [fairly simple] chords, each with a simple move on top with the little finger... the first time you play those chords yourself will leave you breathless I bet.

 

Dennis

[dturner]

Hey man! That was very cool. I'm Old Fashioned. It sounds like this was a transcription or a worked out solo piece. Very nice arrangement. What axe you playing?

--------------------

All the best,

Henry Robinett

Hi Henry,

 

I worked out this arrangement by listening [i don't read notation] to Johnny Smith play it on his "Legends" CD... more details above. I believe all of the solo pieces on the site are worked out JS arrangements, with a few additions here and there. The axe is a Washburn J10, which is Washburn's Johnny Smith model and a great /cheap alternative to the Gibson Johnny Smith jazz box. That's the J10 you see on the site used as a background image. I played this guitar while performing "I'm Old Fashioned" and "Shenandoah" and recorded direct thru a Presonus MP20 mic pre into a Mac G4/DIGI001 DAW. I am glad you liked the tune.

 

Best Regards,

 

Dennis

[dturner]

Hey Paul,

 

Where did you send your email addy? I did not receive anything in my regular email client. Is there a messaging system here at MP? Also, you mentioned uploading your stuff to mp3.com. I would really like to hear some of your music. As a short term fix, Geocities.com is a quick and pretty painless way to upload tunes, though there is a limit on download bandwidth.

 

Regards,

 

Dennis

[pauldil]

Hi Dennis,

 

I think you can look in you profile to see incoming messages. I was refering to the part around 39 seconds into the song, just when he starts doing this little motion within the chord thing. I think I've got that figured out now, but right after that there's some sort of augmented chord that seems like a big stretch. I'll keep pluckin'away...

 

Paul

[dturner]

Hi Paul,

 

Yes, that augmented chord is a bit of a stretch... playing it cleanly is one thing, but getting to it quickly is tough... and the little moving bit just after it, the one just like the phrase just before the augmented chord but with a little move on top.. that one is a real bitch. If you find a simple way to play that phrase, let me know.

 

Good for you. Keep me posted how you are doing with the song.

 

Dennis

[pauldil]

Hi Dennis,

 

I sent you a private message, which you can get by clicking the "my profile" link at the top of this page.

 

Paul

[pauldil]

Dennis,

 

Thanks for the goecities tip. I put a couple of original tunes Here Unfortunately I don't have recording equipment, so there is a very "home made" quality to these recordings. Maybe I should start saving up for an MP20

 

You're right about the one section with all of the movevment...it's a bear!!! Do you have a sample of how you write your chord diagrams to show the arpeggios & grace notes?

 

Thanks,

 

Paul

[dturner]

Hi Paul,

 

Tell you what... I will start working on a chord chart for "I'm Old Fashioned", and create a key chart to explain how to do grace notes and all. Sounds like fun actually.

 

Did you try the the low B note in the bass of that odd chord at second 39?

 

Dennis

[pauldil]

Hi Dennis,

 

Yes, I've played that aug chord, hitting the low B with my thumb. That's going to take some pratice to get that up to any decent tempo, but it's a great sounding chord. The very next phrase that is a challenge to play as well.

 

Paul

[pauldil]

Here is a link to my initial attemp at a chord chart for the first few bars of "I'm Old Fashioned".

 

Link to chord chart

 

Best regards,

Paul

[dturner]

Hi Paul,

 

Nice work on the chord chart. There are a few fingerings I will suggest be played differently, but you have it nailed for the most part. As an experiment, I am going to try and put up your chart as part of this post. I think we also might want to find a couple of way to reference chords either by row and column, or by the time into the song. I will work up a chart and put it up here in a day or two.

 

Dennis http://hometown.aol.com/pdl6247/myhomepage/personal.html

[pauldil]

Hey Dennis,

 

I am now officially working from your version. I figured out how to convert it to a .wav file so I can slow it down. I have updated my chord chart, so please take a look at it when you have a chance and let me know if I'm still on the right track.

 

Updated Chord Chart

Thanks,

 

Paul

[dturner]

Hey Paul,

 

Your chord chart looks great! There are a couple of small things I will suggest, but I'd like to see if we can first work out a standardized way to display the chords and passing notes and arpeggios. I have been working on some ideas for this, and could fax it to you, if you would be kind enough to scan it. I am also working on a chord sheet for "Shenandoah", which is also a bit easier to play than "I'm Old Fashioned". Does that sound like a plan? And, we might consider starting a new thread for "Shenandoah"... what do you think?

 

Dennis

[pauldil]

Hi Dennis,

 

Sounds like a plan. I'm going out of town tonight for a week and won't have access to this forum ,

 

Paul

[pauldil]

Hi Dennis,

 

I just got back a couple of days ago. Did the Disney thing with the kids. What a great week!! No work, no phones, just my family & of course my guitar . Now I'm ready to go back to figuring out the tune. I worked on it a little bit this morning, and updated the chord chart (not sure how accurate the last few chords are, I was in kind of a rush...). I emailed you my fax number earlier, so fax me your chord sheet anytime.

 

Updated Chord Chart

 

Paul

[pauldil]

Hey Dennis,

 

I think I actually finished figuring out the tune . Can you check my chart and let me know if I've got it right or not?

 

Thanks,

 

Paul

 

Updated Chord Chart