Why the war in Iraq is NOT necessary!

[1_dup16]

1: in 10 years petrol (included the one in Iraq) will be at the end apart a very dense iol magma that will require a lot of money and work to be usable 2: killing 3-400.000 children and women does not kill Saddam 3. killing +- 50.000 young americans is not worth 10 years fresh oil 4. First find the prouves that Irak is a menace, then maybe you could go, but don't shot a single gun unless you have those prouves.

[michael saulnier]

Whoa. Nice. :wave: Could you provide just a "bit" more background facts to support this? :eek: Perhaps I should rethink my position? :freak: guitplayer

[1_dup16]

Go and surf any newspaper in the net and it'a all there

[semitone]

Iraq: Prepare for Humanitarian Crisis (New York, February 13, 2003) -- Iraqi civilians could face tremendous hardship if war disrupts their access to food and water or forces them to join hundreds of thousands of people already displaced from their homes, Human Rights Watch said today. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "If central services are disrupted in Iraq, the effects on civilians will be very swift and very severe." Alison Parker Refugee Protection Expert Human Rights Watch -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A 25-page briefing paper released today by Human Rights Watch describes the unique potential for humanitarian disaster in Iraq. Most Iraqi civilians depend on centralized infrastructure for providing food, water, and sanitation, which could be immediately disrupted by war. The potential for crisis is particularly acute in Iraq's central and southern regions, where possibly tens of thousands of people rely solely on government rations and could immediately face serious shortages, Human Rights Watch said. In the event of an extended conflict this population would join the already huge number of displaced Iraqis. "If central services are disrupted in Iraq, the effects on civilians will be very swift and very severe," said Alison Parker, a refugee protection expert at Human Rights Watch. Human Rights Watch takes no position on the legality of the use of military force, including possible U.S.-led military action in Iraq. Its work on Iraq focuses on continuing human rights abuses and, if there is a war, the compliance by all parties with international humanitarian law and protections for Iraqi civilians. U.N. and humanitarian groups estimate that there are between 700,000 and one million internally displaced persons in Iraq and between one and two million refugees outside the country. U.N. agencies predicted in December that war in Iraq could displace an additional 1.1 million people inside Iraq and 900,000 would become refugees outside the country. Although war has been foreshadowed for months, donor governments and U.N. agencies have not openly prepared for the humanitarian emergency. "U.N. agencies and governments have not wanted to prepare openly for something they don't necessarily support," said Parker. "At the same time, without sharing details publicly and coordinating efforts, crisis response may be inadequate." If the United States and its allies go to war and establish military control and authority over Iraqi territory, they will have responsibilities under international law to meet the humanitarian needs of the inhabitants, including the displaced. An occupying power must also provide security or allow civilians to move out of harm's way, either inside or outside Iraq. Neighboring countries also have responsibilities. Unlike other conflict situations where refugees are able to cross international borders in search of safe haven, Iraqis could become trapped in the midst of a conflict in their own country. Iran, already host to the world's largest refugee population, has sent mixed messages about whether it will allow Iraqi refugees into its territory. Turkey has unequivocally stated for months that it will not honor its international obligation to allow refugees to enter its territory and will set up camps inside Iraq. "Turkey must open its borders to refugees fleeing an emergency at home," Parker said. Outside of the immediate region, western governments have also prevented Iraqis from seeking asylum in their territories. Europe in particular has policies already in place specifically geared to block Iraqis. These measures include visa restrictions and policies that return Iraqi refugees to "safe third countries" such as Turkey, or to places inside Iraq that are allegedly "safe," such as northern Iraq. All such restrictive policies should be lifted for Iraqis fleeing now and as a consequence of war, the briefing paper urges. Iraq's problems are aggravated by its unique history of government-sponsored forced displacement. For example, in the oil-rich northern city of Kirkuk, some 120,000 Iraqis from ethnic minorities were displaced under the government's forced "Arabization" campaign. New families are now living in displaced people's previous homes. In post-conflict Iraq, people are likely to return to their homes only to find them occupied by others. "Insecurity isn't only about combat, it also happens when displaced people and refugees cannot rebuild their lives," said Parker. "Conflict can spring from the basic problems of insufficient food or water, or displaced families claiming rights to the same piece of property." Some of the key recommendations contained in the paper include: The government of Iraq, or in the event of war an occupying power, must meet Iraqis' humanitarian needs and ensure the security of the civilian population or allow civilians to move voluntarily out of harm's way, both within and outside of Iraq. Governments neighboring Iraq must open their borders to refugees and must not use the existence of cross-border camps or "safe areas" as a justification for withdrawing refugee protection or for deterring those attempting to cross their borders. Donor governments and humanitarian agencies must put in place plans to address the humanitarian consequences of a potential war in Iraq, paying particular attention to cooperation to ensure that in the event of an armed conflict, humanitarian relief and protection is promptly and efficiently provided to the population at risk. Governments outside the region must allow Iraqi asylum seekers access to fair and efficient asylum determination procedures and prepare emergency and additional resettlement places for Iraqi refugees who may be unsafe in the region.

[michael saulnier]

Semitone. This is a critical issue. Thanks for sharing this article. In order for the upcoming war to be viewed as "successful" by the US and western nations there must be a massive humanitarian effort to bring about positive changes for the average Iraqi person. Hopefully, the Iraqi's themselves will understand the urgency of this and will welcome and support a change in government and refrain from attacking the aid and rebuilding efforts that will begin shortly after the political situation is resolved. If we can win the "humanitarian battle" we will be able to help create an Iraq that could end up being a supportive ally of the US. If we fail in this effort... we risk an Islamic fundementalist regime or worse... We have no better weapon against the fear of Al-Quida recruiting new terrorists than speedy, effective, positive changes in the life of the average Iraqi. It's worth billions to us to make sure this part of the "war" is successful. Since it's likely that a significant part of the war will be the disruption of the infrastructure like electricity, water, bridges, and so on... I would expect that there will be a massive rebuilding project that can re-establish the viability of Iraq as a nation and as an economy. There are expectations that Saddam may attempt to destroy Iraq's oil production facilities like he did in Kuwait... Considering the damage he inflicted there... we could be facing a major envoronmental disaster that may take significant time to recover from. Hopefully when the Iraqi military commanders see that all is lost, they will ignore Saddam's orders to destroy these facilities... maybe that will save them. It won't be easy, but if we succeed, it could change the course of the middle east and the views the people there have of us. guitplayer

[CarmenC]

[quote]Originally posted by 1: [b]1: in 10 years petrol (included the one in Iraq) will be at the end apart a very dense iol magma that will require a lot of money and work to be usable 2: killing 3-400.000 children and women does not kill Saddam 3. killing +- 50.000 young americans is not worth 10 years fresh oil 4. First find the prouves that Irak is a menace, then maybe you could go, but don't shot a single gun unless you have those prouves.[/b][/quote]You're joking, right? The war hasn't started yet. You got your numbers , where? Here's the reason for war. The Gulf War hasn't ended yet. Here's why... United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and United States of America: draft resolution   [Adopted as Resolution 1441 at Security Council meeting 4644, 8 November 2002]           The Security Council,           Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular its resolutions 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990, 686 (1991) of 2 March 1991, 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991, 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, 707 (1991) of 15 August 1991, 715 (1991) of 11 October 1991, 986 (1995) of 14 April 1995, and 1284 (1999) of 17 December 1999, and all the relevant statements of its President,           Recalling also its resolution 1382 (2001) of 29 November 2001 and its intention to implement it fully,           Recognizing the threat Iraq’s non-compliance with Council resolutions and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles poses to international peace and security,           Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorized Member States to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area,           Further recalling that its resolution 687 (1991) imposed obligations on Iraq as a necessary step for achievement of its stated objective of restoring international peace and security in the area,           Deploring the fact that Iraq has not provided an accurate, full, final, and complete disclosure, as required by resolution 687 (1991), of all aspects of its programmes to develop weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles with a range greater than one hundred and fifty kilometres, and of all holdings of such weapons, their components and production facilities and locations, as well as all other nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to nuclear-weapons-usable material,           Deploring further that Iraq repeatedly obstructed immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to sites designated by the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), failed to cooperate fully and unconditionally with UNSCOM and IAEA weapons inspectors, as required by resolution 687 (1991), and ultimately ceased all cooperation with UNSCOM and the IAEA in 1998,           Deploring the absence, since December 1998, in Iraq of international monitoring, inspection, and verification, as required by relevant resolutions, of weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles, in spite of the Council’s repeated demands that Iraq provide immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), established in resolution 1284 (1999) as the successor organization to UNSCOM, and the IAEA, and regretting the consequent prolonging of the crisis in the region and the suffering of the Iraqi people,           Deploring also that the Government of Iraq has failed to comply with its commitments pursuant to resolution 687 (1991) with regard to terrorism, pursuant to resolution 688 (1991) to end repression of its civilian population and to provide access by international humanitarian organizations to all those in need of assistance in Iraq, and pursuant to resolutions 686 (1991), 687 (1991), and 1284 (1999) to return or cooperate in accounting for Kuwaiti and third country nationals wrongfully detained by Iraq, or to return Kuwaiti property wrongfully seized by Iraq,           Recalling that in its resolution 687 (1991) the Council declared that a ceasefire would be based on acceptance by Iraq of the provisions of that resolution, including the obligations on Iraq contained therein,           Determined to ensure full and immediate compliance by Iraq without conditions or restrictions with its obligations under resolution 687 (1991) and other relevant resolutions and recalling that the resolutions of the Council constitute the governing standard of Iraqi compliance,           Recalling that the effective operation of UNMOVIC, as the successor organization to the Special Commission, and the IAEA is essential for the implementation of resolution 687 (1991) and other relevant resolutions,           Noting the letter dated 16 September 2002 from the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Iraq addressed to the Secretary-General is a necessary first step toward rectifying Iraq’s continued failure to comply with relevant Council resolutions,           Noting further the letter dated 8 October 2002 from the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director-General of the IAEA to General Al-Saadi of the Government of Iraq laying out the practical arrangements, as a follow-up to their meeting in Vienna, that are prerequisites for the resumption of inspections in Iraq by UNMOVIC and the IAEA, and expressing the gravest concern at the continued failure by the Government of Iraq to provide confirmation of the arrangements as laid out in that letter,           Reaffirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iraq, Kuwait, and the neighbouring States,           Commending the Secretary-General and members of the League of Arab States and its Secretary-General for their efforts in this regard,           Determined to secure full compliance with its decisions,           Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations,           1.       Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its obligations under relevant resolutions, including resolution 687 (1991), in particular through Iraq’s failure to cooperate with United Nations inspectors and the IAEA, and to complete the actions required under paragraphs 8 to 13 of resolution 687 (1991);           2.       Decides, while acknowledging paragraph 1 above, to afford Iraq, by this resolution, a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations under relevant resolutions of the Council; and accordingly decides to set up an enhanced inspection regime with the aim of bringing to full and verified completion the disarmament process established by resolution 687 (1991) and subsequent resolutions of the Council;           3.       Decides that, in order to begin to comply with its disarmament obligations, in addition to submitting the required biannual declarations, the Government of Iraq shall provide to UNMOVIC, the IAEA, and the Council, not later than 30 days from the date of this resolution, a currently accurate, full, and complete declaration of all aspects of its programmes to develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, and other delivery systems such as unmanned aerial vehicles and dispersal systems designed for use on aircraft, including any holdings and precise locations of such weapons, components, sub-components, stocks of agents, and related material and equipment, the locations and work of its research, development and production facilities, as well as all other chemical, biological, and nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to weapon production or material;           4.       Decides that false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq’s obligations and will be reported to the Council for assessment in accordance with paragraphs 11 and 12 below;           5.       Decides that Iraq shall provide UNMOVIC and the IAEA immediate, unimpeded, unconditional, and unrestricted access to any and all, including underground, areas, facilities, buildings, equipment, records, and means of transport which they wish to inspect, as well as immediate, unimpeded, unrestricted, and private access to all officials and other persons whom UNMOVIC or the IAEA wish to interview in the mode or location of UNMOVIC’s or the IAEA’s choice pursuant to any aspect of their mandates; further decides that UNMOVIC and the IAEA may at their discretion conduct interviews inside or outside of Iraq, may facilitate the travel of those interviewed and family members outside of Iraq, and that, at the sole discretion of UNMOVIC and the IAEA, such interviews may occur without the presence of observers from the Iraqi Government; and instructs UNMOVIC and requests the IAEA to resume inspections no later than 45 days following adoption of this resolution and to update the Council 60 days thereafter;           6.       Endorses the 8 October 2002 letter from the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director-General of the IAEA to General Al-Saadi of the Government of Iraq, which is annexed hereto, and decides that the contents of the letter shall be binding upon Iraq;           7.       Decides further that, in view of the prolonged interruption by Iraq of the presence of UNMOVIC and the IAEA and in order for them to accomplish the tasks set forth in this resolution and all previous relevant resolutions and notwithstanding prior understandings, the Council hereby establishes the following revised or additional authorities, which shall be binding upon Iraq, to facilitate their work in Iraq:       – UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall determine the composition of their inspection teams and ensure that these teams are composed of the most qualified and experienced experts available;       – All UNMOVIC and IAEA personnel shall enjoy the privileges and immunities, corresponding to those of experts on mission, provided in the Convention on Privileges and Immunities of the United Nations and the Agreement on the Privileges and Immunities of the IAEA;       – UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have unrestricted rights of entry into and out of Iraq, the right to free, unrestricted, and immediate movement to and from inspection sites, and the right to inspect any sites and buildings, including immediate, unimpeded, unconditional, and unrestricted access to Presidential Sites equal to that at other sites, notwithstanding the provisions of resolution 1154 (1998);       – UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to be provided by Iraq the names of all personnel currently and formerly associated with Iraq’s chemical, biological, nuclear, and ballistic missile programmes and the associated research, development, and production facilities;       – Security of UNMOVIC and IAEA facilities shall be ensured by sufficient United Nations security guards;       – UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to declare, for the purposes of freezing a site to be inspected, exclusion zones, including surrounding areas and transit corridors, in which Iraq will suspend ground and aerial movement so that nothing is changed in or taken out of a site being inspected;       – UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the free and unrestricted use and landing of fixed- and rotary-winged aircraft, including manned and unmanned reconnaissance vehicles;       – UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right at their sole discretion verifiably to remove, destroy, or render harmless all prohibited weapons, subsystems, components, records, materials, and other related items, and the right to impound or close any facilities or equipment for the production thereof; and       – UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to free import and use of equipment or materials for inspections and to seize and export any equipment, materials, or documents taken during inspections, without search of UNMOVIC or IAEA personnel or official or personal baggage;           8.       Decides further that Iraq shall not take or threaten hostile acts directed against any representative or personnel of the United Nations or the IAEA or of any Member State taking action to uphold any Council resolution;           9.       Requests the Secretary-General immediately to notify Iraq of this resolution, which is binding on Iraq; demands that Iraq confirm within seven days of that notification its intention to comply fully with this resolution; and demands further that Iraq cooperate immediately, unconditionally, and actively with UNMOVIC and the IAEA;           10.     Requests all Member States to give full support to UNMOVIC and the IAEA in the discharge of their mandates, including by providing any information related to prohibited programmes or other aspects of their mandates, including on Iraqi attempts since 1998 to acquire prohibited items, and by recommending sites to be inspected, persons to be interviewed, conditions of such interviews, and data to be collected, the results of which shall be reported to the Council by UNMOVIC and the IAEA;           11.     Directs the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director-General of the IAEA to report immediately to the Council any interference by Iraq with inspection activities, as well as any failure by Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations, including its obligations regarding inspections under this resolution;           12.     Decides to convene immediately upon receipt of a report in accordance with paragraphs 4 or 11 above, in order to consider the situation and the need for full compliance with all of the relevant Council resolutions in order to secure international peace and security;           13.     Recalls, in that context, that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations;           14.     Decides to remain seized of the matter. :wave:

[CarmenC]

[img]http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2003/02/10-cartoon.jpg[/img] :wave:

[Tedster]

Well...given Sodamn Insane's history of using human shields, it's too bad that certain people can't, rather than war, arrange an (Italian accent) "unfortunate accident" for him. It would take a considerate effort in infiltration.