Feel free to ask Myles

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by halcyon:

hi myles. i bought a musicman 75 head about a month ago and it needs new tubes. it has a pure solid state preamp and 2 6L6's in the power amp. i heard this amp has a plate voltage of 750 volts. I talked to the guy at KCA NOS Tubes and he said he didnt think he had anything that would be reliable in my amp. are there any tubes that will work for my musicman? thanks.

halcyon ....

 

You are in a bit of trouble.

 

Mike at KCA was correct.

 

There are very few options here.

 

One is to put in some KT-88SV's. They handle the plate voltages, but will sound different. ONLY use the SV's (look for the heat sink wings on the plate assembly, as these are made in the JJ plant, but not the same as the other JJ KT-88's). The KT-88C and C2 will not be as reliable, and will sound even more different.

 

Two, is to find some real 6CA7's. These were the stock tube, and a big bottle, high vacuum, USA (or GE licensed UK Mullard) that has an active beam forming element that the EL-34 does not have, even though folks think these are the same tube. DO NOT EVEN ATTEMPT to use the new "bogus" big bottle EL-34's of today or the "bogus" 6CA7 labelled tubes that are being sold under various name from the Ei factory and other facories.

 

Three, wait about six months to a year and GT will have the GE 6CA7 back in production as we did with the 6L6GE.

 

For trying to find NOS 6CA7's .... some show up on ebay at times. Mike at KCA can maybe keep an eye out for you, and drop a line to Charlie Kittleson at Vacuum Tube Valley.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by Nollykin:

Hey myles. I have a bit of a problem with a Marshall AVT 150 - could you please check out my post - " Problems with d/o. "? Twould be appreciated.

 

Nolly

Nolly,

 

If you copy and paste it over here, it would be easier as I just try to stay in this area when I can, and it benefits more folks that may have a similar problem.

[teleboy 59]

Hi Myles'

I have a couple of questions for you .I recently aquired a 70's SF Fender Twin that has been blackfaced and heavily modded.Here is what has been done.first channel has effects loop send return,and a master volume, 2nd channel has gain etc. In back it has a Hi, LO, Med switch that says 70 30 20.It has 6550's on the outside Svetlana 6l6's in the middle.

After reading your post about power tube distortion and using big amps and what not it got me wondering about some stuff.First of all this amp sounds very good as is but I was wondering if I run this thing in 20 watt mode and crank up the effects return knob and the master volume am I getting power tube distortion?or should I get something smaller.It also runs pretty hot!If anything,what could be done to improve this beast.It has emminence speaks.Thank you so much for your time and expertise.

Tele 59

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by teleboy 59:

Hi Myles'

I have a couple of questions for you .I recently aquired a 70's SF Fender Twin that has been blackfaced and heavily modded.Here is what has been done.first channel has effects loop send return,and a master volume, 2nd channel has gain etc. In back it has a Hi, LO, Med switch that says 70 30 20.It has 6550's on the outside Svetlana 6l6's in the middle.

After reading your post about power tube distortion and using big amps and what not it got me wondering about some stuff.First of all this amp sounds very good as is but I was wondering if I run this thing in 20 watt mode and crank up the effects return knob and the master volume am I getting power tube distortion?or should I get something smaller.It also runs pretty hot!If anything,what could be done to improve this beast.It has emminence speaks.Thank you so much for your time and expertise.

Tele 59

Anytime you crank the master all the way up to get it out of the circuit as much as possible, you will get more output distortion percentage.

[myles_rose]

I am closing this topic for now, as I am about to leave for a week away from this life.

 

I will be gone the week of Christmas, and will not be answering email at my own addresses or at Groove Tubes.

 

I will re-open this post when I return.

 

In the meantime, if you have a question, use the search function and your question may have been answered in this post at some other point in time.

 

Have a great holiday.

[myles_rose]

Just letting folks know I have re-opened this topic and am back from my week off.

 

Hope you all had a great Christmas.

 

Myles

[roy d]

Welcome back Myles. I hope your time away was refreshing.

[Dave da Dude]

Shooo did!

 

And Happy New Year to you and yours.

 

Dave.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by roy d:

Welcome back Myles. I hope your time away was refreshing.

Roy,

 

It all was pretty interesting .... our family and my kids, on a one week little Carnival cruise, with two more families, more kids, for 5 days

 

I lived through it somehow. Lots of "bands" aboard the cruise ship, one could be tolerated for a period not to exceed 30 minutes, but one particularly good player, so it was pretty nice overall.

 

Did you get your amp back yet?

 

Have a great New Years.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by Dave th Dude:

Shooo did!

 

And Happy New Year to you and yours.

 

Dave.

Dave ....

 

Happy new year right back at ya !

[Franknputer]

Happy New Year Myles (and everyone else)!!

 

Got a question: need to replace the EL84 tubes in my Peavey Classic 30. Most likely going to have to order online - GC didn't have any quads, so... -

 

I went to GT's site & found the 3 offerings...but the descriptions didn't say much. Can you elaborate a bit on the choices? Do you have any recommendations for that amp?

[Gtoledo3]

Hey Miles,

Do you have a favorite line up of tubes for the original black face super reverbs? Mine is a '64. I originally had sylvania's in there, and 6072's(I think) as the preamp tubes. It sounded great. A year ago I got some sovtek replacements, but the amp no longer has the same kind of "dynamics/ pleasing overtones."

[roy d]

Myles,

I did get the amp back and it is working fine. I replaced the V2 which was microphonic with an ECC83 and put the Chinese 12AX7 in V1. Sounds sweet...

Christopher, I tested the EL84Y's for Myles. They sounded very nice but I had two tubes go bad. He told me that the JJ's are the way to go.

Roy

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by ChristopherKemp:

Happy New Year Myles (and everyone else)!!

 

Got a question: need to replace the EL84 tubes in my Peavey Classic 30. Most likely going to have to order online - GC didn't have any quads, so... -

 

I went to GT's site & found the 3 offerings...but the descriptions didn't say much. Can you elaborate a bit on the choices? Do you have any recommendations for that amp?

Christopher ....

 

Here is the deal on the GT stuff.

 

the EL-84R ( http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1175 ) is a sturdy tube. It is the stock tube in Fender, Peavey, and just about every amp that uses the EL-84. It sounds like a wet sleeping bag was thrown over your amp. GT sells it, and I work for GT, but when I am on this forum I try to stay impartial and talk from my own Blueprinting business point of view, so from my own personal viewpoint .... if your amp came with this tube and you liked your amp, you have nowhere to go by UP with ANY other EL-84.

 

The EL-84Y ( http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1688 ) is the Ei tube. The photo on the GT website is one version of this tube. There are two versions, and the latest ones have a different plate material which is silver. They are much better than the EL-84R ... which by the way, is made by the Reflector Factory in Moscow ... where it sells it under the the Sovtek name. The EL-84Y that GT has is of a new design, and I have a number of sets of these under test, and out in the field with folks testing them in real life. Some of the folks are in this forum .... Roy d. and Dave Wendler (dave251 I believe). I had two sets of problems with roy d. in his Peavey Classic 30. I am not sure of Dave's results in his Fender Blues Jr. I have a set out with Steve Boykin who loves them and has had great luck.

 

The last of these is the EL-84S ( http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1216 ). This is the best of the current EL-84's to my thinking until I get more field results back. It is much stronger than the R, much nicer response. This is the stock tube in the high end EL-84 amps, such as Bad Cat and Matchless, where they use higher priced components all around.

 

Class A amps eat tubes. That is part of their design nature. Playing 3 hours a night, three nights a week, in six months most players will be long overdue for a tube change, and might not notice what they have until they change to the new tubes, and then it's pretty dramatic.

 

Now, if you are in the big bucks arena, or have a big record company behind you, and want to hear what you amp is really capable of doing, then it's NOS time. The NOS EL-84's had higher vacuum, better cathode coatings that were also more pure, and nicer plate materials with more plate mass as they were not as cost concerned as folks today. These NOS EL-84's can tend to be pricy, but part of the cost offset is that they tend to last 2-3 times longer than new tubes. You can also sort of justify that for a little more each day in cost over the tube life, that you amp sounds amazing rather than just great, or great rather than just good, or good rather than bad, etc.

 

The current list over at KCA and Mike over there ( kcanostubes.com ) who I send a lot of my GAB clients to, is:

 

NOS Amperex Bugle Boy EL84s---------------------------------------$ 150 Per Matched Pair

Only one pair in stock. Made in Austria, good logos in original boxes.

 

NOS JAN Philips ECG (Emporium PA)-------------------------------$ 75 Per matched pair

Great sounding in guitar amps! Very few remaining in stock.-------------------$ 160 Per matched quartet

Supply is running out on these with no known source for future replacement.

Excellent in your Blues Jr., Marshall 18 watt, Matchless, Vox AC-30, AC-15 or Dr. Z amp.

"Better than Mullards in my Marshall Mini Blues Breaker". Max Marinucci.

 

NOS GE 6BQ5/EL84----------------------------------------------------$ 35 Each (no matched pairs or quads)

Excellent in your Blues Jr., Matchless, Marshall 18 watt, Vox AC-30, AC-15 or Dr. Z amp.

Sweet sounding in guitar and audiophile amps. Some in original GE boxes, some labeled and boxed as Admiral.

 

NOS RCA 6BQ5/EL84-------------------------------------------------$ 75 Per matched pair

No quartets in stock.

Great in hi-fi gear and guitar amps when maximum clean headroom is desired.

 

7189A

NOS RCA 7189A-------------------------------------------------------$ 100 Per matched pair

 

Hope this was of some help.

[Franknputer]

Big time - thanks again Myles!

[Gtoledo3]

Originally posted by GT3:

Hey Miles,

Do you have a favorite line up of tubes for the original black face super reverbs? Mine is a '64. I originally had sylvania's in there, and 6072's(I think) as the preamp tubes. It sounded great. A year ago I got some sovtek replacements, but the amp no longer has the same kind of "dynamics/ pleasing overtones."

my bad, they were 7025's.

[timrocker]

Hi Myles;

I have a Lexicon Signature 284 (actually made by Lace, I'm told) that I'd like to put to good use. It has the tubes it came with second-hand, which are Mesa Boogies. 12ax7's and EL-84's. Do you know of any cool tricks, mods, or other things to get a lot more power tube distortion from this amp? I only have $200 in this unit and am willing to take some chances with it. It has an effects loop with stereo return, and is essentially two seperate power amps from there out. Thanks ahead! Tim

[Blue Note]

Hello Myles,

 

I'm glad your back hope your holidays were more than great.

 

Just a couple of questions tried to post earlier but ended up creating a new topic.

 

I ordered some NOS RCA-6V6's, matched 12AT7's, and some low gain 12AX7's for my Deluxe Reverb, and Princeton Reverb so I could have a matched driver and some low gain V1's so all distortion comes from the 6V6's.

 

But I'm not sure which tubes are the drivers since the both have reverb also I don't know for sure which tube is V1. Is there some way to identify this by the tube socket location (example the driver is closest to 6V6's and V1 is next to the 5U4. I also have a couple of Fender Bantam Bass, and Bassman heads which has two channels, bass and normal channels how do you locate V1 on these amps I assume the only 12AT7 is the driver but after looking at some other web sites about amps I'm not sure.

 

Thank you for your time and expertise.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by roy d:

Myles,

I did get the amp back and it is working fine. I replaced the V2 which was microphonic with an ECC83 and put the Chinese 12AX7 in V1. Sounds sweet...

Christopher, I tested the EL84Y's for Myles. They sounded very nice but I had two tubes go bad. He told me that the JJ's are the way to go.

Roy

Roy,

 

Don't ever replace preamp tubes (meaning, don't buy anymore). You are one of my blueprinting folks, so preamp tubes are on me for the amp I went through.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by ChristopherKemp:

Big time - thanks again Myles!

Christopher....

 

You are more than welcome.

 

Myles

[DanYmaL X]

Myles:

I have an amp I got from a friend, a Danelectro Twin-Fifteen... It was sitting in his garage when I helped him move, and he gave it to me for helping (and to get it out of the way)... it had a junked pair of 10 inch home stereo speakers, and I have no idea if it actually works (he said it did)... the first thing I did was throw those speakers away, and I have not had the time or opportunity to mess with it since.

I posted in a couple other forums a few months back, and got a bit of input, but not much.

I don't really know a lot about tube amps, and I'd really like to get this amp going again... I have included a link to a page with pics from all angles, including the tube diagram on the inside of the cab. Here's my list of hurdles:

1.) I am already planning on replacing the tubes, all of them, but have no idea what to look for.

2.) I have no idea what this amp had for speakers... is there a way to tell by the tube setup?

3.) My friend told me it was a bass amp but looking at the back of the control panel, I don't think so... a bass amp with a vibrato pedal?

4.) How do I test it to make sure the components other than the tubes are ok?

5.) I have too many other questions to list!

If you can give me any input at all, I would greatly appreciate it... or at least point me in the right direction.

Thanks

DX

My Dano Twin-15 Amp

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by GT3:

Hey Miles,

Do you have a favorite line up of tubes for the original black face super reverbs? Mine is a '64. I originally had sylvania's in there, and 6072's(I think) as the preamp tubes. It sounded great. A year ago I got some sovtek replacements, but the amp no longer has the same kind of "dynamics/ pleasing overtones."

GT3 ....

 

Stock tubes most of the time were 7025 RCA's or GE's at times. These were long plates, and had more treble response than shorter plates of later and of today. They gave the blackface amps some of that sparkle that is missed with a lot of today's tubes. If you want to hear a big difference, listen to a Super Reverb reissue and an original. The biggest difference in the amps is frankly, the V1/V2 Sovtek 12AX7WA that comes as stock in the reissues most often.

 

For a short plate tube with linearity and warmth, of the new tubes, the Chinese 12AX7C9 is the best from my point of view for a everyday tube.

 

For the bright sound with a new tube, the Ei 7025 (sometimes marked as ECC83 and/or 12AX7) is closer to the original 7025. These are easy to see if of the 7025 Telefunken tooling produced tubes, as they have long smooth plates, and the most consistant ones (and they are very inconsistant, so know your Ei vendor), have silver plates.

 

If you want the original sound and response, then it's NOS time:

 

From Charlie Kittleson at vacuum tube valley:

 

RCA 7025/12AX7 NOS 1960s The tube originally used in Black Face Fenders and other guitar amps in the 1960s. Low noise and low microphonic 12AX7 type. Excellent tone and reliability. One of the very best for guitar amps or hifi applications calling for a sweet-sounding and quiet 12AX7. Super selected Platinum low noise. $75 each

 

Also check KCA ... at the moment, I think their website is down, but Mike generally has a nice selection of 7025's from a few makers, and his prices are terrific.

 

The amp may have had a 6072 in there that was not stock. Some folks did this to lower front end gain and get more clean headroom. The 6072 is a low noise selected version of a 12AY7 (used as V1 in tweed era Fender amps of some types, in the 50's, and is a pretty amazing tube for certain applications.

 

For output tubes, the originals most of the time were either Sylvania STR387 6L6's, RCA's, or GE 6L6's. My preference in your amp is a #5 6L6GE. Guitar Player Feb 03 just did a review on our own USA GE 6L6. I have this review posted at the bottom of the section at:

 

http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1713

 

The rest of the power tubes are at:

http://www.groovetubes.com/tubes_list.cfm?ObjectGroup_ID=108

 

The preamp tubes are at:

http://www.groovetubes.com/tubes_list.cfm?ObjectGroup_ID=107

 

Hope this was of some help.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by timrocker:

Hi Myles;

I have a Lexicon Signature 284 (actually made by Lace, I'm told) that I'd like to put to good use. It has the tubes it came with second-hand, which are Mesa Boogies. 12ax7's and EL-84's. Do you know of any cool tricks, mods, or other things to get a lot more power tube distortion from this amp? I only have $200 in this unit and am willing to take some chances with it. It has an effects loop with stereo return, and is essentially two seperate power amps from there out. Thanks ahead! Tim

timrocker ............

 

These were pretty cool units. The reason they stopped being produced, I think, is that they were not marketed properly, as they are a pretty nice piece of gear.

 

In any case, I have done a bit of work with these in studios, and for the high gain crowd, I use a SAG ECC83 in V1 with a rating of at least 125, and you will see that puppy come to life. For the EL-84's use EL-84S's in a rating of 7.

 

Hope that helped.

[Kevin F]

Ok, Myles I've got a couple or three questions for you.

 

I just got Marshall DSL 100 head last week, the shop had just sold 4 or 6 of the 4x12 cabs so I can't get a new cab for another week or 2. Therefore I have to use the 4x12 from my old Crate half stack. The cab is set at 4 ohms and I have the head set for 4 ohms but I thought the head would be louder than my old head. Does the resistance in the amp change how much wattage the head will deliver to the amp?

 

Secondly, the level switch for the effects loop, does the switch need to be in or out for pedals? The manual doesn't say, I do notice a difference in volume but I can't tell which way it should be.

 

And finally, which Marshall cab is the best to get to go with this head? I am really impressed with the clean tone and I get lots of headroom from the amp. I also like the distorted sound but I am not getting that infinite sustain feed back that I like to play with, any suggestions? Am I not driving the power tubes engough?

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

[Kevin F]

does the resistance in the amp....

sorry, I meant to ask if the resistance in the cab control how much wattage the amp delivers to the cab.

 

I am not looking for ear shattering volume, I just want a better tone on stage and I am usually close to the drummer so I have to compete with that.

 

Thanks

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by Blue Note:

Hello Myles,

 

I'm glad your back hope your holidays were more than great.

 

Just a couple of questions tried to post earlier but ended up creating a new topic.

 

I ordered some NOS RCA-6V6's, matched 12AT7's, and some low gain 12AX7's for my Deluxe Reverb, and Princeton Reverb so I could have a matched driver and some low gain V1's so all distortion comes from the 6V6's.

 

But I'm not sure which tubes are the drivers since the both have reverb also I don't know for sure which tube is V1. Is there some way to identify this by the tube socket location (example the driver is closest to 6V6's and V1 is next to the 5U4. I also have a couple of Fender Bantam Bass, and Bassman heads which has two channels, bass and normal channels how do you locate V1 on these amps I assume the only 12AT7 is the driver but after looking at some other web sites about amps I'm not sure.

 

Thank you for your time and expertise.

Blue Note ...........

 

Thanks, and my holidays were great.

 

On your "low gain" 12AX7's, this is a tricky deal. It takes some pretty sophisticated equipment to do this right. Most vendors will use old tube testers at best, and their idea of "low gain" will have you end up with a tube that is also low in output, the TC will be off, and the bottom line is you end up with little more than a weak tube that is not the least articulate.

 

There are a few tube vendors that do have the proper equipment. Bob Pletka at Eurotubes, Charlie Kittleson at Vacuum Tube Valley, Derek Rocco at Watford Valves in the U.K., Mike at KCA NOS tubes, and us over here at Groove Tubes.

 

You might be better off with the old SRV trick of using an NOS 5751 in V1/V2, or a 12AT7 may also do the trick a lot better than a "low gain 12AX7". GT out of the SAG (Special Applications Group ... which happens to be my personal group), has a specific kit for this application:

http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1767

 

There are only two of these kits in stock at the moment.

 

The 6V6's, where did they come from? Do you know what their millamp draw is by any chance?

 

In Fender amps of the black face era, V1 is for the Normal channel, V2 is the vibrato channel, and V6 is the phase inverter in amps that have reverb and vibrato. V1 is the closest to the input jack, or looking at the amp from the rear. the tube on your right, the most far from the power tubes.

 

The phase inverter / driver, is the preamp tube which is the farthest from the input jack and the most close to the output tubes.

 

Hope this was of some help.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by danymal_x:

Myles:

I have an amp I got from a friend, a Danelectro Twin-Fifteen... It was sitting in his garage when I helped him move, and he gave it to me for helping (and to get it out of the way)... it had a junked pair of 10 inch home stereo speakers, and I have no idea if it actually works (he said it did)... the first thing I did was throw those speakers away, and I have not had the time or opportunity to mess with it since.

I posted in a couple other forums a few months back, and got a bit of input, but not much.

I don't really know a lot about tube amps, and I'd really like to get this amp going again... I have included a link to a page with pics from all angles, including the tube diagram on the inside of the cab. Here's my list of hurdles:

1.) I am already planning on replacing the tubes, all of them, but have no idea what to look for.

2.) I have no idea what this amp had for speakers... is there a way to tell by the tube setup?

3.) My friend told me it was a bass amp but looking at the back of the control panel, I don't think so... a bass amp with a vibrato pedal?

4.) How do I test it to make sure the components other than the tubes are ok?

5.) I have too many other questions to list!

If you can give me any input at all, I would greatly appreciate it... or at least point me in the right direction.

Thanks

DX

My Dano Twin-15 Amp

danymal_x ..........

 

1.) I am already planning on replacing the tubes, all of them, but have no idea what to look for.

 

The tubes are generally still available, the best bet would be to contact Mike at KCANOS, www.kcanostubes.com (but at the moment, their website seems to be down).

 

2.) I have no idea what this amp had for speakers... is there a way to tell by the tube setup?

 

There were a few configs, I would need to look at the serial number, pot date codes, and determine if they may have been Jense, CTS, Utah or Oxfords.

 

3.) My friend told me it was a bass amp but looking at the back of the control panel, I don't think so... a bass amp with a vibrato pedal?

 

This amp was used generally as a guitar amp.

 

4.) How do I test it to make sure the components other than the tubes are ok?

 

The caps are probably dried out, but the first step is to check all the voltages and with a scope, look for 60 cycle noise that would be present if the power supply filter caps were gone. It is lack of use that kills capacitors faster than anything else.

 

5.) I have too many other questions to list!

If you can give me any input at all, I would greatly appreciate it... or at least point me in the right direction.

Thanks

DX

My Dano Twin-15 Amp [/QB]

 

I hope this was of some help.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by Kevin F:

Ok, Myles I've got a couple or three questions for you.

 

I just got Marshall DSL 100 head last week, the shop had just sold 4 or 6 of the 4x12 cabs so I can't get a new cab for another week or 2. Therefore I have to use the 4x12 from my old Crate half stack. The cab is set at 4 ohms and I have the head set for 4 ohms but I thought the head would be louder than my old head. Does the resistance in the amp change how much wattage the head will deliver to the amp?

 

Secondly, the level switch for the effects loop, does the switch need to be in or out for pedals? The manual doesn't say, I do notice a difference in volume but I can't tell which way it should be.

 

And finally, which Marshall cab is the best to get to go with this head? I am really impressed with the clean tone and I get lots of headroom from the amp. I also like the distorted sound but I am not getting that infinite sustain feed back that I like to play with, any suggestions? Am I not driving the power tubes engough?

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

Kevin,

 

On your post after this one ... cabinet resistance is not too much of a factor as the output transformer will correct for this. Some amps will put out a bit more wattage driving into a 4 ohm load than an 8 hom or 16 ohm load, but at times, higher ohm speakers, or cabinet efficiency will reduce or completely changes these aspects.

 

Your Crate cab will work fine.

 

On the loop level switch, there is no set way. Set it where it has the least amount of background noise, but where the effects or pedals work nicely.

 

The Marshall cabs are great, but Mesa cabs, and lots of other cabs are great too. It is a matter of personal preference. Many cabs for the most part use many of the same speakers inside. One of the best sounding cabs in the land for your head is actually a 2x12 cab that will sound much bigger than a Marshall 4x12, and have wider sound dispersion, and be louder at a given volume setting, the THD 2x12 ported back cabinet. I have a lot of Marshall folks using these now.

 

For more gain and sustain, you need tubes in V1 and V2 that are not 50% down on output as are 80% of all new stock tubes. The other issue, is your phase inverter is, by great odds, not even close to being matched on it's two sides. If some notes sustain well, and others not as nicely, this is partially your phase inverter tube. If you have stock Sovtek tubes in the output section, that is also holding you back big time. ANY other tube is an improvement.

 

Hope that was of some help.

[Kevin F]

Thanks Myles,

 

That really helps me a lot. Going to check out that THD 2x12 also.

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

[Blue Note]

Myles,

 

I ordered the NOS RCA-6V6GTA's from Tube World Inc. I asked for 2 matched pairs they were $80.00 each pair. I don't remember the guys name I was talking to but I also asked for (4) matched 12AT7's and (4) low gain 12AX7's. He seemed to understand why I wanted the low gain 12AX7's and the matched 12AT7's. The total price came to $344.00 plus shipping I hope I did not choose the wrong source if you think these tubes will not be what I want please let me know so I can order the FST set from GT. I did not realize this was available but it looks like what I am looking for.

 

The order has not arrived yet, and the salesman did not give me a milli-amp rating if they are labeled when they arrive I will let you know that info.

 

Thanks again for the info on the location of the tubes on my amps!!!