Dan South Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 I grab the pick between my thumb and index finger. The point of the pick is pointing directly at the strings. I start strumming, and within seconds, the pick rotates toward either the neck or the bridge. I don't want to use an "iron grip". What's the trick? What am I missing? The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinex Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Dont know... I hold my pick pretty loose (1.14mm dunlops) I hold it so my thumb extends a little bit past where the tip of my index meets on the other side of the pick.so if your sticking your thumb out.. I put the pick a little below the tip of my thumb nail.. then on the opposite side, i curl my index finger a bit and thats about it. It never slides around for me that way.. I noticed though that if I hold it with the tip of my thumb and tip of my index finger meeting on opposite side it will move in direction. Essentially if your looking down at your right hand.. the thumb would be pointing north and index pointing south-west.. dont know if that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Maybe this is why I suck at playing...but I always have held the pick with thumb, index, and middle finger. My thumb kinda pushes the pick into a slightly bent state between my two fingers... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickerman Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 After a half hour of use my picks are bent into a more natural gripping shape. (Curved) so it stays just how I want it. Also, Dunlop makes pre-curved picks you may want to check out. One last thing, try playing with the back rounded side. I play with that side on my thicker picks (1.14 and 2mm) It seems to be easier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave123 Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 try playing with a "looser" wrist.. and pick from the elbow. sounds to me like you're a little "tight". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Dan, I had the exact same problem when I was using those picks with the grippers on the end. I switched to the Tortex Dunlop picks and that seems to have eliminated the problem. Zig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickerman Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Also you could try my bootlegged improv. fix-it. When I was having the same problem I took my .60mm pick and drilled three holes in the back end of it so I could grip it easier. It worked quite well but now I just automatically bend them how I want 'em... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not coaster MODERATOR Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 What are your other 3 fingers doing Dan? Do they flap around or do you sort of rest them on the body of the guitar while playing? Watch a video of somebody you admire and it may surprise you how little their right hand is actually moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickerman Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Originally posted by Cereal: Watch a video of somebody you admire and it may surprise you how little their right hand is actually moving.Or he may watch punk-rock "legend" Loose Wrist Larry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak Lander Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Hey Dan, I had that problem for what seemed like for ever. It will go away, or at least lighten up after a while. In the mean time, the suggestions above are all valid. I like the nylon Dunlops. The have a grip built in. Make sure your fingers are not slippery, or too dry. Use Gorilla Snot or some other grip aid if you NEVER finger pick. If you use & like the tortex type definately try Wick's suggestion with the drilled holes. That lets your finger & thumb meat meet in the holes & act as a twist resister. Ted, I usually use just the thumb and forefinger with the otheres resting on the pick guard but will also use the thumb and two fingers if just strumming and not going to flat pick. Could be an old guy thing. Our Joint "When you come slam bang up against trouble, it never looks half as bad if you face up to it." The Duke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted March 11, 2002 Author Share Posted March 11, 2002 Originally posted by Cereal: What are your other 3 fingers doing Dan? Do they flap around or do you sort of rest them on the body of the guitar while playing? Watch a video of somebody you admire and it may surprise you how little their right hand is actually moving.My whole hand is moving, as the problem only occurs while strumming chords. If I'm picking one note at a time, the pick stays put. I'll will watch some "players" and mimic their technique. One thing just occurred to me. The skin at the tip of my index finger is tough and extremely smooth from plucking roundwound bass strings. Maybe this is why the pick is slipping away from me. I'll look into those picks with the grips at the store tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestions. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperator Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 This does seem to be a good topic, because you can see the variations on the theme that all the players replying here use. Quite interesting. When they say its all in how you play it. I believe that is Gospel. (I dont think this statement negates amplification / fx; it kind of correlates really). Position #1. The main thing. Tip sticking out about a 1/4. In general held evenly between index and thumb with other fingers rolled in loosely towards closed. Thus the side of my middle finger near the knuckle on the side/inside of the finger touches the side of the pick close to the rounded wide end. The side of the middle finger is important in keeping the angle of the pick correct and in place. At that point the middle finger should be able to leave position along side of the pick safely and easily come back there as a resting position if wanted. Now from here the other fingers can reach out and pick a string to if they need to. Actually I usually have all the other fingers out so they are ready to pick. Usually I strive to have my hand floating. Im use to adjusting my distance and location by adjusting where my arm hangs over the top of the guitar. The inside of the lower arm nearing the elbow. The arm in facts slides in or out along the top of the guitar if Im moving to picking closer or farther away from the bridge (Important for adjusting the sound in my opinion). I might put the other fingers down onto the face of the guitar to get my location temporarily or if Im feeling a little insecure about my accuracy. Its good to learn not to plant your hand down. On the acoustic the noise will be instantly audible from your hand clattering on the face, etc. Besides you really want a sense of accuracy and independence. Hard to do this when you are always fixed in one place. Some other picking techniques. I routinely move out or in on the pick. This is done by sliding it along the side/inside of the middle finger. Pushing or pulling with the thumb in conjunction with the index finger. Out to the outside of the pick for strumming. Fast picking is very comfortable out some on the pick for me also. Sometimes its also good to think of fast individual picking of notes a little like strumming. Up close for chirping (Billy Gibbons harmonics type trick) Just the tip of the pick barely exposed between index and thumb. As the pick slips by the string striking the meat of the side of the thumb. By bending the thumb / index finger in or out closer to the hand you can command this effect on or off at will. Do this up and down the string for a nice effect or an octave above any note youre fretting to have it swell out to its strongest level. Quite a noticeable effect with a hot Amplifier sound. It also works acoustically with a harmonically rich sound. Advanced technique. Harmonics anywhere. Roll the pick to being held between the thumb and the side of the middle finger between both knuckles of the middle finger. All fingers except the index finger curled. It looks like all your fingers are closed with the index finger pointing directly out. Now your pick is held perpendicular between the straight thumb and and side of your middle finger between the knuckles. Now pick a note while you use the flat of the inside of the top of the index finger to lightly touch a note an octave higher then fretted. Also you can spell out chords an octave higher then fretted or ghosting the chord shape with a gradual strum motion. Some guitar players play routinely with thumb and middle finger so they can have the index finger free to use it for tricks like this. Muting. Very import for tone as well as amplification control. Just set the palm where the strings meet the bridge. Out more on the strings if you want to kill the sound. Mostly a nice little interactive blending between resting on the bridge to slightly touching the strings. Think of using it like the dampening peddle on a piano. I have a huge collection of picks of all types, materials and shapes. Ive collected over the decades. I generally give these away to whoever happens to see some they like. I prefer Fender Mediums the standard shape. I have metal picks because sometime I practice with these for double picking accuracy. I like the rigidity of the mediums but theyll give just a little if I jump into a speed strum. Always used them so Im most comfortable with them. Im big on dynamics of all types. So I pick from hard if I have to all the way to very light and skancey, jangly. My amplification choices and volume control are reflective of this philosophy. On acoustic I might do a whole rhythm track with a thin pick for the strumming for the sound. Just as easily do it with a heavy pick by control, but both techniques will have different attitude. Just some ideas. Keep picks always handy around you. So you can easily grab one. Taped to the mic stand with masking tape, maybe. Top of the amp and in the pocket. I play with nails if I lose a pick. Ill switch to using my index fingernail like its a pick. Thumb pressing against Index finger like Im holding a pick only I use the nail. Nail has a different tone though. Might decide to play with all just fingers, again its all about collecting techniques and gaining fluency. The beauty of a pick is that sharp accurate attack sound. Heres a good exercise. Carry the pick around in your hand for a while and just turn it with your thumb, index and middle fingers. Moving it around in your hand (using just that hand) with just that hands fingers (mostly thumb, index and middle finger with the thumb doing most of the work) in to the palm out to correct position. The idea is to get the thumb and fingers to easily locate and put it into any position you want. Flip the pick between your thumb, index and middle fingers. Rotate the pick between your thumb, index and middle fingers (Also doing this just keep the ring and pinky with the middle finger bending or whatever it does like theyre the same finger). Also moving mostly along the side/inside of the middle finger kind of sliding it mostly with the thumb. After awhile youll get very comfortable and used to manipulating the pick. Its definitely not about being constantly tensed up with the pick. You wouldnt as a person walk around like that. Your grip should be firm and reflect what youre doing. So you can manipulate it naturally. Familiarity and fluency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperator Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Sorry Dan probably got a little carry awayed with my reply. Didn't mean to get so far out on your post, pontificating. Hold the pick a little farther out on strumming, might help it have a little more flex and give. If it's just strumming you might want to go with a lighter pick. If you go to strumming harder you'd want to react with holding your pick harder. Also I still think it's a good thing about the side of the middle finger to come in and make sure the pick is angled properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylver Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 I had a similar problem when I first started switching from guitar to bass. To overcome this, I carried a pick around with me all the time. Anytime my picking hand was free, I had the pick in my hand, strumming against my thigh. This seemed to get me comfortable holding the pick for long periods of time, and it helped me develop my own sense of how to hold the pick. I think everyone holds it differently. Jack I really don't know what to put here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Originally posted by Cereal What are your other 3 fingers doing Dan? Do they flap around or do you sort of rest them on the body of the guitar while playing? Watch a video of somebody you admire and it may surprise you how little their right hand is actually moving. Hey Dan, I think Cereal nailed it here. I had the same problem. I noticed that my pinky finger is always laying on my guitar in some way. That stabalizes my strumming hand quite a bit. Also, it'll take some time, but eventually you'll find a pick that really suits you best. Not to say, you can't play with any pick, but I find that I play best with a Dunlop nylon 1mm. I believe everybody's got a perfect pick out there for them. LOL. Hope this helps. Namaste Jedi "All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence." The Buddha's Last Words R.I.P. RobT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted March 12, 2002 Author Share Posted March 12, 2002 Okay, problem solved! Thanks to everyone for their suggestions - MisterMe, it's going to take me a while to digest all of that info. I have to thank machinex for pointing me in the right direction. I thought about his description of the thumb pointing north and the index finger pointing southwest and gave the technique a try. The pick stayed rock solid from that moment forward, I suppose due to the fact that I was now holding it between the thumprint and the side of the index finger. Originally, I was holding the pick between the tips of the thumg and the index finger. - Imagine lifting a wet sock out of the washing machine. - This created a nice pivot point. It's amazing how obvious the problem seems to me now! Anyway, the new technique is very comfortable. I even played my bass with the pick with good results. (I've always been a fingerstyle player.) Thanks a million guys! You ROCK!!! The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 Notice where your first finger rests against the pick relative to your thumb. The tip of your thumb should probably be extended over the edge of the pick slightly; the *pad* of your finger tip should be pressed approximately straight in the same direction as the tip of the pick, with proportionate spacing (symetrical) on the sides. You're probably either gripping the far side of the pick, or using the tip of your finger instead of the pad, which doesn't have as much surface area and likewise allows the pick to rotate as you play. I see that happen in probably about 1 in every 10 students, it probably has to do with habits aquired from holding pens/pencils a certain way (with the tip of the index finger instead of the pad). Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak Lander Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 Hey Dan, One other thought. You may be too close to the guitar when you're trying to use the pick.... (kinda like, yer standing too close to the golf course when you try to hit the ball???) Our Joint "When you come slam bang up against trouble, it never looks half as bad if you face up to it." The Duke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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