Tedster Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 I said I'd post this as a separate topic...so here goes... Are we fooling ourselves? Are we enjoying our "new tubes" when a forced phase-out is inevitable? It may not happen for another 15-25 years (maybe sooner, God forbid), but, eventually, modeling amps will replace our tried and true faves completely, just as sure as mammals replaced dinosaurs. Tube amps will literally be museum pieces, just like tube radios, TVs, etc. I'm not saying by any means that I endorse such a phase out. I dread it. But, I think that it's inevitable. Guitar players are the only folks who use tubes anymore. We all know that if a business can't turn a decent profit (tube manufacturers, even if they are in Russia and China)...it will go under. So, where does this leave us? I find myself thinking of future generations of guitarists who will never know the magic of a real tube amp in sort of the same way as future generations who won't be able to enjoy scenery without billboards. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickerman Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 There will always be old farts like you to keep the market alive. I doubt there will ever be a day when there isn't some guy who wants tubes. The simple fact is, the technology is out there today to make solid state amps that react and sound just like tube amps. I've heard emulators that are amazing. I couldn't tell the difference between that and the Fender Twin it was sitting next to. It was absolutely awesome. The problem was it was build by a very small company who was charging $3000 for a 100 watt 2x12. It was a really cool amp but just because you don't have to mess with the hassles of tubes doesn't make it worth that much. Anyway, the tech is out there, it's possible to make a solid-state amp that even Myles wouldn't be able to tell was solid. For some reason guitar players are just too stone headed to create a demand for it. Every other musical technology has advanced immensely with the exception of guitars. Sure, there's some impressive modelers but look at keyboards for example. They've advanced in leaps and bounds because the players are always wanting more realistic and/or unique voicings. The new Korg Triton and Karma are unbelievable! That same technology would be available for guitar if the players created the demand. Roland thankfully is getting the midi pickups and processors marketed pretty well but I'd actually like to see it pushed more. Don't get me wrong, I love my tube amp and (as far as the tech goes today) would never replace it with a solid state. I just know there's tech out there that could convince me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted March 7, 2002 Author Share Posted March 7, 2002 Originally posted by Wickerman: There will always be old farts like you to keep the market alive. I resemble that remark. But, you're right. Newer, younger guitar players will embrace newer technology, while crusty old farts ramble on about how "They don't make 'em like they used to". That was my whole point, I guess... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrmac Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 I'm more worried about the fact that there won't be any more guitar players in the future. Or people playing anything for that matter. Lots of good X-Box players though. By the way there are a lot of audiophile types who may have more to do with the fact that tubes are still available than guitar players do. In any case most people can't tell the difference between the sound of a tube amp and a POD when they listen to a squashed and digitally clipped mix on their cheap CD player through computer speakers. I'm not bitter...nah, not me. i just spent the last three days building a tube guitar amp based on a 50 year old design by the way. Wow, what a beautiful sound! Mac Bowne G-Clef Acoustics Ltd. Osaka, Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickerman Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Originally posted by gtrmac@hotmail.com: I'm more worried about the fact that there won't be any more guitar players in the future. Or people playing anything for that matter. Lots of good X-Box players though. By the way there are a lot of audiophile types who may have more to do with the fact that tubes are still available than guitar players do. In any case most people can't tell the difference between the sound of a tube amp and a POD when they listen to a squashed and digitally clipped mix on their cheap CD player through computer speakers. I'm not bitter...nah, not me. Yeah, I agree the new generation of punks and nu-metalers are pretty much a joke. Everyone playing power chords or drop-d down three octaves. One of my friends and myself are the only guys I know of under 30 that play any style other than punk or nu-metal. Also, yeah, after everything getting thrown together and driven by cheap headphones or computer speakers you really can't tell a difference but there's always the live aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted March 7, 2002 Author Share Posted March 7, 2002 It ain't about the sound comin' out of the boombox speakers. It is about the sound vibrating yer testicles while you're playing. But, we all knew that. Good point. Perhaps in the future, there will only exist samples of what has been done already on guitar...and snip n' clip "meisters" will just assemble it in whichever way they choose. UGH. At least the guys playing drop D punk whatever have an actual guitar in their hands. I was going to try to make another point...but I forgot. Ah well... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Originally posted by Tedster: Originally posted by Wickerman: There will always be old farts like you to keep the market alive. I resemble that remark. But, you're right. Newer, younger guitar players will embrace newer technology, while crusty old farts ramble on about how "They don't make 'em like they used to". That was my whole point, I guess...We've got this huge very old home with gigantic front porch. I've decided to create an old folk's home for musician's in the future. We're all gonna sit on the front porch and say things like; "Why, I remember WAY back in 1974 when the first Crown 300 came out..." Yeah, the modeling technology is getting better and better. I love my VG but would never part with my Boogs or my Cream Machine. I just wanted to point out that there are a ton of good and junky tube based 'front ends' out there and that market is growing if anything. Maybe tubes will be around longer than you think. -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted March 7, 2002 Author Share Posted March 7, 2002 Hey, Dave, Can I reserve a room in your old folks' home? I'd bet that would be a swell idea. Think of the front porch jams... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Hey guys, I'm in my mid twenties and I can't imagine a world without tube amps. Tedster, stop thinking such thoughts, the thought of no tube amps makes me sick to my stomach, LOL. I've got a POD, and I use to record with it a lot. Now, I'm back miking those Tube Amps, baby. Call me one of those guitar purist assholes, but I swear it seems like there is something missing when I'm using the Pod for recording. Oh yeah, I know what it is-This loud arrogant fearful noise coming from my amp that is the essence of ROCK AND ROLL. Having a little fun today. You guys take care. Namaste Jedi "All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence." The Buddha's Last Words R.I.P. RobT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 The fact remains that vacuum tubes are less likely to be destroyed by the electromagnetic pulse resulting from a nuclear blast than ICs. So there will always be a military demand for tubes. That's the main reason why the Russians never stopped producing. "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylver Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 I'm gonna blow a little sunshine , well, you know ... Yeah, there sure are a lot of modeling amps out there. Let's see ... Line 6's stuff, Roland, Yamaha, H&K, Beringer, Rocktron, etc. But it seems to me there are a least as many companies making good all tube amps. Let's see first all of the biggies: Fender, Marshall, Vox and Mesa. These guys all make many different tube amps and expand thier lines all the time. Then, there are the "boutique" manufacturers. Soldano, Bogner, Tophat, Reverend, Univalve and about a hundred other names that I can't think of. Oh, wait, I forgot about the middle of the roaders(sales volume, not quality or price) ... Peavey, Carvin, H&K, Pignose(!), Crate, Hiwatt, etc. It seems to me there are more choices and more of a market for pro, semi pro, and hobbyist guitarist than ever before. I don't think tubes are going anywhere anytimes soon. There will always be purists around, who want pure tone, even among the younger players. Tubes forever! Oh, and by the way ... Wick and Ted my brothers, let me clue you guys into something that's gonna make you both feel real good. Music is cyclic. It ebbs and flows, and has always done so. Close your eyes and relax and clear your minds. Can you feel it? Can you smell it? I can. It makes the hair on my arms stand up. The revolution is coming. Just when you are about to give up on music, real passionate music, it happens. Music is about to slingshot back and be redefined. The cool thing is that when the musical environment is like this, you have a real change to help make the change, to shape the direction, to make it real again. Take up your arms, my bruthas! Viva la revolution! Damn the torpedos! I've got something in my shoe! KoRn rules. Jack I really don't know what to put here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilcoFord Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Another thing to consider is that we are not alone in this. The high-end audiophiles also prize tube amplifiers and are probably fairly numerous. Many of the NOS tubes I've collected have come from audiophile stores/sites instead of places devoted to musicians. I think that there will always be a market for vacuum tubes, especially NOS tubes as the supplies dwindle. The prices are just going to go up sharply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 ....just send me to the LSD farm, then a Gorilla will sound like a Soldano. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave123 Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 tedster, i still own several antique tube radios in working condition. does the name atwater-kent ring a bell? you can still get tubes for them.. though they are pricy. it all depends on if there's a market for them. i'm not worried about modeling amps replacing tubes anytime soon. if guitar players didn't prize tube amps they wouldn't make them anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Also: does anyone have any idea how many Mesa Triple Rectifiers have been sold? How many tubes do they have each anyway? 11,12? Those alone should keep the demand for 5U4s high for decades. "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted March 7, 2002 Author Share Posted March 7, 2002 Originally posted by strat0124: ....just send me to the LSD farm, then a Gorilla will sound like a Soldano. Coffee thru the nose... Good points everyone. Well, it won't happen in the next five years. Or even the next 10. But in another 20 years...maybe 30...as tube emulation technology improves, tubes will eventually become a thing of the past. Hopefully it won't happen in my lifetime, or maybe even in the lifetimes of youngsters like Wick or Blackjedi...but eventually... BTW...you might want to read Myles' response to this, it's on his "Brand new 6L6" thread. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted March 8, 2002 Share Posted March 8, 2002 Originally posted by Tedster: Hey, Dave, Can I reserve a room in your old folks' home? I'd bet that would be a swell idea. Think of the front porch jams...Ted, I think we're around the same age so check with me in around 21 years and I'll have you a room waiting. -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendrix Posted March 8, 2002 Share Posted March 8, 2002 Originally posted by PhilcoFord: Another thing to consider is that we are not alone in this. The high-end audiophiles also prize tube amplifiers and are probably fairly numerous. Many of the NOS tubes I've collected have come from audiophile stores/sites instead of places devoted to musicians. I think that there will always be a market for vacuum tubes, especially NOS tubes as the supplies dwindle. The prices are just going to go up sharply.I second the above point. Think of whats has gone on with vinyl and turntables since CD's took over the world. They retain a niche in the market comprised of folks who are very particular about their audio and who are willing to pay big bucks for what these technologies offer. The mass production / mass marketing industry dynamics no longer apply - so prices have increased sharply. Thats whatI'd expect the future of tubes to be - rather than extinction. Of course, if someone really figures out how to get the the same sweet sounds out of silicon devices then there would be no reason for tubes at all and we should all be happy. Check out some tunes here: http://www.garageband.com/artist/KenFava Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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