Let the Inspectors finish their work... AFTER the war.

[michael saulnier]

It seems clear by now that the kind of "co-operative" inspection regime the UN wants is only going to be possible in a post-Saddam Iraq. So... Let the inspectors do their job... verifying that ALL the WMD's are destroyed. I'm sure the post-Saddam government will be VERY co-operative. Oh, BTW... Today's anti-war rallies around the world... do you think they'll be a good place to pick up chicks? I mean, I can talk anti-war rhetoric as good as the next guy... See... "It's all about OIL!" "Don't murder the innocent Iraqi children!" "Let the inspectors do their job!" "Down with imperialist America!" "Bush was illegally elected, now he's illegally waging war!" "War is never right!" Aren't these the "pickup lines" of 2003? guitplayer

[patrick_dont_fret]

Are you being cynical? Because I think the inspectors should finish their job before Bush moves in to get oil. There's really no point in this...we call all see what it will amount to, that being millions of people losing their lives, and not only Iraqi people. If we attack Iraq, then all the other hate-groups will attack us, and we will all die. Do you want to die for oil? I know I don't. That's why I say fuck it...fuck it to hell. I don't want to die, especially not for something that's already killing our ecosystem faster than I type these words. Screw them...leave them over in their corner, and we'll stay in ours.

[Wow]

How many people at the rally today? A trillion , no one ever know's . The numbers are ALWAYS inflated. In N.Y. the protestors took out a permit for 100 thousand people , lets see how many show. Watch for the tight shots of the crowd by CNN. There will be 10 thousand and they will try to make it look like 100,000 thousand.

[CarmenC]

[quote]Originally posted by patrick_dont_fret: [b]Are you being cynical? Because I think the inspectors should finish their job before Bush moves in to get oil. There's really no point in this...we call all see what it will amount to, that being millions of people losing their lives, and not only Iraqi people. If we attack Iraq, then all the other hate-groups will attack us, and we will all die. Do you want to die for oil? I know I don't. That's why I say fuck it...fuck it to hell. I don't want to die, especially not for something that's already killing our ecosystem faster than I type these words. Screw them...leave them over in their corner, and we'll stay in ours.[/b][/quote]Why didn't we just grab the oil the last time? Kuwait still has their oil. So does Iraq. The oil argument is BS. C

[Henchman]

Well, I'm toattly against war. I was there with the anti-Neutron bomb peace rallies in Amsterdam when I lived in Holland. And I don't trust Bush for a second. However, no matter how you look at it, Saddam is a madman. Do we ignore what he is doing to his own citizens,as the world did with Hitler in WWII? The man is a dictator, pure and simple. And there is no reasoning with people like that, as history has proven. So I would like to know if anybody has a better solution? I think taking a simple "No War" stance is a very easy, popular, way out. This isn't a simple political "Liberal" or "Republican" thing. It's what they should have done with Hiltler before he got a chance to build up his arsenal. How many people would have been saved then. Are any of these anti-war people aware what Saddam has and is doing to his own people? You really think teh US can just march in and take all the oil? Get real. I can't see that happenning. They need to go in, get rid of Saddam, and hopefully then the UN will go in and help stabilize the political situation in that country. I'm really starting to wonder why we even bother having a UN. They're pretty fucking useless, and waste a pile of money.

[patrick_dont_fret]

Can't you people see? Once we take Saddam out of power, we'll put someone in that is in with the US and we'll end up getting all the oil anyway. Haven't you people ever looked back at all the people we've put into power? They've either been killed, or kicked out. It won't work. They are usually just as bad as the last guy. It won't work.

[Henchman]

[quote]Originally posted by patrick_dont_fret: [b]Can't you people see? Once we take Saddam out of power, we'll put someone in that is in with the US and we'll end up getting all the oil anyway. Haven't you people ever looked back at all the people we've put into power? They've either been killed, or kicked out. It won't work. They are usually just as bad as the last guy. It won't work.[/b][/quote]So, what's the solution. To let Saddam stay in power as a dictator, and allow him to continue terrorizing his own people. And continue his support for terrorists. What would you do? That's what I want to hear. I'm sick of the "we shoudln't do this, we shoudln't do that". I want to hear somebody say:"this is what we should do". If you have aproblem with the current solution, you better have an alternative. Otherwise shut the hell up.

[michael saulnier]

[quote]Originally posted by Henchman: [b] [quote]Originally posted by patrick_dont_fret: [b]Can't you people see? Once we take Saddam out of power, we'll put someone in that is in with the US and we'll end up getting all the oil anyway. Haven't you people ever looked back at all the people we've put into power? They've either been killed, or kicked out. It won't work. They are usually just as bad as the last guy. It won't work.[/b][/quote]So, what's the solution. To let Saddam stay in power as a dictator, and allow him to continue terrorizing his own people. And continue his support for terrorists. What would you do? That's what I want to hear. I'm sick of the "we shoudln't do this, we shoudln't do that". I want to hear somebody say:"this is what we should do". If you have aproblem with the current solution, you better have an alternative. Otherwise shut the hell up.[/b][/quote]Patrick has never hidden what HE thinks we should do... just look at his sig... [quote] Hi, I'm a tie-dye wearin', hackey sack playin', jamband listenin', dope smokin', pacifist punk*ss. [/quote]I think that's a "one size fits all" suggestion for relating to world events. God bless an America that allows us to favor different POV's... :eek: guitplayer

[patrick_dont_fret]

I'd like to see proof that his people are being terrorized, first of all. All I'm hearing is bullshit from CNBC and CNN and the government...I don't trust them. Now, if it were me, we wouldn't have anyone against us in the first place. We would be helping out all the fledgling nations that need support, feeding the hungry children of the world (you know we have an excess surplus), and helping with debt relief. Bono would be too, because he's always pushing for it, but not helping himself...anyone famous pushing for anything would be required to help personally. Yeah, because they have the money, and the resources to do it.

[Henchman]

[quote]Originally posted by patrick_dont_fret: [b]Now, if it were me, we wouldn't have anyone against us in the first place. We would be helping out all the fledgling nations that need support, feeding the hungry children of the world (you know we have an excess surplus), and helping with debt relief. Bono would be too, because he's always pushing for it, but not helping himself...anyone famous pushing for anything would be required to help personally. Yeah, because they have the money, and the resources to do it.[/b][/quote]I'm not asking you what you would do about starving children. I'm asking you, what would you do to solve the Saddam probel. The fact is, he IS a dictator. He has had members of his own family execeted. That's a fact. Not US propaganda. People are scared to speak against him, becasue they will end up in jail, or worse, dead. That's a fact. Kind reminiscent of another famous dictator, who started WWII while the rest of the wolrd looke don and did nothing. So, what is YOU'RE solution. Roll another joint, becasue it's a million miles away and doesn't REALLY affect you?

[patrick_dont_fret]

Talking. Talking is the only solution to anything. I've solved so many problems just by sitting down and talking. So far, I haven't heard much about them actually sitting down and talking about this...just attacks against one another, much like our election process. This is fucking bullshit...people need to talk.

[Henchman]

So what do you do when the person you're talking to, plugs their ears and screams "I can't hear you".

[michael saulnier]

Patrick, QUICK... Get on the phone... Call the UN... Tell them YOU'VE GOT THE SOLUTION TO THE IRAQI PROBLEM... [quote]Talking. Talking is the only solution to anything. I've solved so many problems just by sitting down and talking. So far, I haven't heard much about them actually sitting down and talking about this...just attacks against one another, much like our election process. This is fucking bullshit...people need to talk. [/quote]Whew... We almost went to war when this whole thing could have been stopped... Let us know what they say! Love 'ya man... 'ya got me smilin' ALL DAY! And that's WITH YOU... not AT YOU! :thu: guitplayer

[george costanza]

All I know for sure is that if the "nation building" effort that we'll see in post-war Iraq is much like that in Afghanistan, then I doubt that it'll be a real improvement.

[eh steve]

#1. IT’S NOT ABOUT THE OIL! #2. IT’S NOT ABOUT THE OIL!! #3. IT’S NOT ABOUT THE FUCKING OIL!!! Once sadman is eradicated and large deposits of WMD’s are destroyed, a new Iraqi government will be established and supported. Granted, one result of this will be big business and profit for the oil industries of many countries. The bottom line is, that huge amount of crude oil is and will always be Iraq’s. The #1 reason a multi national military action will happen is to eliminate large stockpiles of some very nasty shit. (VX, anthrax, smallpox…) #2. A crazy fucking dictator, his family and his cronies will be castrated. Those who survive will get a combo lobotomy zap treatment. #3. The ball is in Iraq’s hands. Time is running out. Either they come clean and truly disarm and account for WMD’s or they get a forced enema to flush it out.

[patrick_dont_fret]

[quote]Originally posted by Henchman: [b]So what do you do when the person you're talking to, plugs their ears and screams "I can't hear you".[/b][/quote]I don't talk to them.

[michael saulnier]

[quote]Originally posted by patrick_dont_fret: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Henchman: [b]So what do you do when the person you're talking to, plugs their ears and screams "I can't hear you".[/b][/quote]I don't talk to them.[/b][/quote]That'll work! :thu: Really Patrick... you're my favorite! guitplayer

[patrick_dont_fret]

[quote]Originally posted by guitplayer: [b] [quote]Originally posted by patrick_dont_fret: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Henchman: [b]So what do you do when the person you're talking to, plugs their ears and screams "I can't hear you".[/b][/quote]I don't talk to them.[/b][/quote]That'll work! :thu: Really Patrick... you're my favorite! guitplayer[/b][/quote]Kiss my ass.

[michael saulnier]

Don't you think we should "talk about this"? Where's that "pacifism"? guitplayer

[CarmenC]

[quote]Originally posted by Henchman: [b]Well, I'm toattly against war. I was there with the anti-Neutron bomb peace rallies in Amsterdam when I lived in Holland. And I don't trust Bush for a second. However, no matter how you look at it, Saddam is a madman. Do we ignore what he is doing to his own citizens,as the world did with Hitler in WWII? The man is a dictator, pure and simple. And there is no reasoning with people like that, as history has proven. So I would like to know if anybody has a better solution? I think taking a simple "No War" stance is a very easy, popular, way out. This isn't a simple political "Liberal" or "Republican" thing. It's what they should have done with Hiltler before he got a chance to build up his arsenal. How many people would have been saved then. Are any of these anti-war people aware what Saddam has and is doing to his own people? You really think teh US can just march in and take all the oil? Get real. I can't see that happenning. They need to go in, get rid of Saddam, and hopefully then the UN will go in and help stabilize the political situation in that country. I'm really starting to wonder why we even bother having a UN. They're pretty fucking useless, and waste a pile of money.[/b][/quote]:wave:

[patrick_dont_fret]

[quote]Originally posted by guitplayer: [b]Don't you think we should "talk about this"? Where's that "pacifism"? guitplayer[/b][/quote]I gave you a chance. Obviously, there are no second chances here.

[michael saulnier]

What do you mean? guitplayer

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by patrick_dont_fret: [b] They've either been killed, or kicked out. It won't work. They are usually just as bad as the last guy. It won't work.[/b][/quote]Of course it will work! Look at what the CIA accomplished in Zaire! Well, sure that was a democratically elected government and there werew some problems afterwords.. yeah.. Ok, what about Brazil back in the 60's? The CIA assassinated another democratically elected leader? Death squads trained by the CIA? What? Oh. How about Indonesia in '65, that was a great CIA thing, huh? Well, yeah, Suharto did massacre maybe a million "communists".. ok.. well, how about Greece in '67? Well, yeah, but the CIA did their thing before the election actually happened so.. ok, how about that guy we put into Uraguay? He said what? ""The precise pain, in the precise place, in the precise amount, for the desired effect." — Dan Mitrione".. oh.. ok. Bolivia in '71? How about Chile! Pinochet? What did he do? Ohhhh. Let's see... Angola? Savimbi did what? Ok. El salvador? No? Hey, look how well it's worked in Somalia! Oh yeah. Well, look at Noriega! Oops. Well, there's always Haiti! No? Uhm... Well, there was this country called "Iraq", where the CIA spent a ton of money to keep him in power, and... no?

[Philip OKeefe]

[quote]Originally posted by patrick_dont_fret: [b] If we attack Iraq, then all the other hate-groups will attack us, and we will all die[/b][/quote]Hmm... we didn't attack Iraq and they killed about 3,000 innocent American citizens on 9/11. The "hate groups" hate us anyway - because we exist. My main concern with Iraq is that they will release some of those WMD's to terrorists - Hamas, Al-Qaeda, whoever... and the NEXT "9/11" will be worse. Far worse. Personally, if "I" was president, I would be unwilling to take that chance. So I agree with the Bush administration - he either openly disarms - which means the end of "hide and seek games" - IOW, Iraq says "here they are, dismantle / destroy them", or we will have to do it for them.

[Salyphus]

[quote] Hmm... we didn't attack Iraq and they killed about 3,000 innocent American citizens on 9/11. [/quote]:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Philip OKeefe]

[quote]Originally posted by S.A.L.: [b] [quote] Hmm... we didn't attack Iraq and they killed about 3,000 innocent American citizens on 9/11. [/quote]:confused: :confused: :confused: [/b][/quote]Sorry - I see now how that could be misunderstood. I was trying to say that the "hate groups" (or, as I prefer, radicals) attacked us and killed 3,000 American citizens - not Iraq. There may indeed be some connections between Iraq and 9/11, but I have never seen any conclusive evidence to support this. It may indeed exist, and I have no doubt that the President has access to intel that I do not, and there's certainly times when you don't use / reveal your intel because of the need to protect the source. But again, I'm not saying there was any Iraqi involvement in the 9/11 attacks. I was trying to say that the Islamic radicals attacked us anyway. They don't need any excuse. They'll still hate us and attempt to do us harm irregardless of what we do or do not do.

[Chris Johnson]

[quote]Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe: [b] [quote]Originally posted by S.A.L.: [b] [quote] Hmm... we didn't attack Iraq and they killed about 3,000 innocent American citizens on 9/11. [/quote]:confused: :confused: :confused: [/b][/quote]Sorry - I see now how that could be misunderstood. I was trying to say that the "hate groups" (or, as I prefer, radicals) attacked us and killed 3,000 American citizens - not Iraq. There may indeed be some connections between Iraq and 9/11, but I have never seen any conclusive evidence to support this.[/b][/quote]...but what you SAID was 'we didn't attack Iraq and they killed about 3,000 innocent American citizens on 9/11'. If you were trying to say something else, and you've never seen any conclusive evidence to link Iraq to this at all, what's up with you saying that? You didn't say something else, you said that. Chris Johnson

[midispaceho]

[quote]Originally posted by patrick_dont_fret: [b]I'd like to see proof that his people are being terrorized, first of all. All I'm hearing is bullshit from CNBC and CNN and the government...I don't trust them. Now, if it were me, we wouldn't have anyone against us in the first place. We would be helping out all the fledgling nations that need support, feeding the hungry children of the world (you know we have an excess surplus), and helping with debt relief. Bono would be too, because he's always pushing for it, but not helping himself...anyone famous pushing for anything would be required to help personally. Yeah, because they have the money, and the resources to do it.[/b][/quote]Patick, NOBODY provides more food and aid to the third world than the USA. That is a FACT. We are feeding millions and millions of destitute people all over the world every year. There is only so much we can do. We can't kill our economy to help everyone else. Even if we did, it still would not be enough. It sounds as if you want the entire world to be socialist bordering on communist. Not many would support that. Oh by the way, Saddam has murdered thousands and thousands of people, including his own daughter. Read the translations from Al Jazera if you don't trust American media. Al Jazera has not had many kind things to say about Saddam. He is every bit as evil as Hitler, and wants to dominate at least the arab world if not the whole world. Believe this. I like you as a person, but you are coming off very ill informed.

[jacob.hellnerchello.se]

Just for the record. Most Europeans country give more per capita in human aid than the US. OD

[Philip OKeefe]

[quote]Originally posted by Chris Johnson: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe: [b] [quote]Originally posted by S.A.L.: [b]

quote:

---

Hmm... we didn't attack Iraq and they killed about 3,000 innocent American citizens on 9/11. [/quote]:confused: :confused: :confused: [/b][/quote]Sorry - I see now how that could be misunderstood. I was trying to say that the "hate groups" (or, as I prefer, radicals) attacked us and killed 3,000 American citizens - not Iraq. There may indeed be some connections between Iraq and 9/11, but I have never seen any conclusive evidence to support this.[/b][/quote]...but what you SAID was 'we didn't attack Iraq and they killed about 3,000 innocent American citizens on 9/11'. If you were trying to say something else, and you've never seen any conclusive evidence to link Iraq to this at all, what's up with you saying that? You didn't say something else, you said that. Chris Johnson[/b]

---

Hey, I apologised. :eek: And I tried to clarify my meaning. If you READ THE POST AND QUOTE IN CONTEXT, you will see that what I said was in response to the "...all the other hate groups" comment, and wasn't in reference to Iraq. IOW, attacking Iraq for weapons violations (and treaty violations - the Gulf War ended in a cease fire, contingent on their following the terms they agreed to at the end of hostilities - which they most definitely have NOT done) makes no difference. Al Qaeda hates us anyway, and will attempt to attack us again - even if we do not go into Iraq. IOW, we hadn't "attacked Iraq" before 9/11, and they (terrorists) didn't need that as an excuse to hit us on 9/11.