Pod vs. J-Station vs. V-Amp vs.....

[rog951]

Guys,

 

I'm looking into buying one of these little "modeler" type thingies so I can put down some late-night tracks and not piss my neighbors off so much. Is there a concensus as to which is best-sounding? Not to upset any big Line6 fans here, but I'm kinda leaning away from the Pod/Pod Pro only because of several realiability issues I know of with friends using their stuff. I've listened to the Pod and J-Station and they both sound pretty good...I just didn't get to spend the time with them I wanted to. Nobody around has the Behringer V-Amp in stock so I haven't tried it yet. Anyway, I'd really appreciate your thoughts about sound quality, reliability, or anything else that might help.

 

Thanks a ton!!!

 

Rog

[myles_rose]

If you want something that really sounds and works like a

real amplifier, with all the dynamics and touch sensitivity

of a real amplifier (unlike modeling devices), you need to

use a real amp.

 

The best recording amp today, and the most versitile, with

a line out (for both use as a pre-amp to another amp, and

a feed to a recording console or house system), which is

also buffered, is the hit amp of the last NAMM show, the

THD Univalve. The are not too expensive, although more than

a POD Pro but not made in Malaysia and ARE built correctly.

 

You can check out their website at www.thdelectronics.com

 

I have used GT speaker emulators, GT Guirat preamps, direct

boxes, H&K red boxes, various line pads, etc. The THD is

the best unit I have ever found, and is very versitile ....

you can get high gain, low gain, blues, metal, etc ....

depending on the settings and tubes used. It also makes

one great amplifier in its own right.

 

Also look at www.harmonycentral.com and go to the amp

section and look at the reviews of that amp by others.

 

Being a class A amp with no feedback loop, even in high

distortion, you hear every string rather than them all

mushed together.

 

I also have some Univalve specs using different tubes on

my own website at www.geocities.com/myles111us

 

Hope this helped a little.

 

Myles

[tld]

I recently got a used SansAmp PSA-1 (made my Tech21 NYC), and frankly I'm blown away by the direct recording that can be done with it. It's only for amp modelling, that is, it has no effects etc. Unlike many units, it has an all analog signal path.

 

Definately worth a listen.

 

Tom

[oxford]

I've been looking at these too which also includes Digitech's RP series. They have a built in expression pedal. Haven't had a chance to hear them other than the online sound clips. There's some pretty good deals on them right now and it would be fun to play around with some different sounds but conflicting reports of sound quality make me a little nervous.

[gtrmac]

I have a POD2.0 and I have used a PSA-1 a lot. The POD has limitations as do all the modelers when compared with a real amp. So does the PSA-1 for that matter. I find that neither of these units give the "feel" of a real tube amp, especially in the area of picking dynamics. This is my complaint with all the digital effectors and even the "all analog" PSA-1 has some limitations in this regard. With that in mind I will say that I find the POD very useful and I've had no problems with the unit for 1 year of use so far. The PSA-1 I was using blew up once but I think they are generally pretty reliable also. I would agree that the THD Univalve might be the ultimate solution but it is a very expensive unit, around $1200 for the head alone I think.

[rog951]

Guys,

 

Thanks for the info. I figured I'd get a few "just go buy a tube amp, dumbass" comments Truth is, I've got five tube amps already (not bragging by any stretch; you'd know that if you'd ever seen my pitiful collection)...the modeler was likely gonna be for use only when absolutely necessary. Like when the neighbors complain, etc. Anyway, it'd just be nice to have something I could plug in real quick to preserve a musical idea, not make too much of a racket, and maybe even have a chance of actually being able to keep the track. That THD thing looks pretty damn cool, actually. I hadn't really planned on spending those kinda $$$, but that never stopped me before...

[chedrob]

The Yamaha DG stuff is pretty good. I have the DG80 and use it for both live and recording. It has a balanced line out with with a speaker emulator that actually works. A nice feature of this amp is that it has independant level controls fot the line out and power amp out - so you can record "silently"

 

You may want to check out the DG-Stomp. It has a very similar preamp as the DG80 with a few more features.

[AudioMaverick]

Rog951,

 

I just picked up a Johnson J-Station (Mars Music - $150) for when I have people over to record at my house. Same issue with neighbors. I have a project studio set up and record... can't play a lick.

 

Not being a guitar player, I can't be an expert opinion. But, the salesman was blown away by it. We plugged it into some cheap $200 solid state amp and the closest guitar he could grab. We spun the knobs to different presets and he switched songs to match the styles. So, I walke dout with one, and he was going to jam on one after I left.

 

I got the software installed on WinME and Win2K. Both systems can find and control the box. The "J-Edit" software gives you a lot of control over the box. Plus, there is a "lite" version of Cakewalk's "Guitar Studio". I'd say a pretty good value for $150! Also, I talke dwith a Line6 rep. about the POD. It is a 16-bit modeler, while the J-Station is 24-bit. This gives it a cleaner definition of tone, whatever you can get out of it.

 

I have some people coming over next weekend to redo some tracks. I'll be happy to leave some samples on my site and send you the links to listen.

 

I'd say, go to a local store and plug one into a mediocre amp with no real personality. Jam on it for 10 or 15 minutes. If you don't get tired of the sound, you can add it to your stack of budget items that do the trick until you can afford the "better" one.

[DC]

One modeler I can recommend is the Boss GT-3. They're blowing them out right now because the newer Boss pedal board is out. Thing is, the GT-3 sounds really good and is very editable and it records well. Plus Boss stuff is built like a tank, it'll never tear up. You get some pretty good modeling preamps plus just about all the Boss stomp boxes in one unit with a pedal for volume/wa/whatever. There is also a ton of web support for this device if you want to download patches etc.

[strat0124]

or.....build an insulated doghouse to put a hot little combo in.....or.....either buy or build one of those silent cabs. All the nuance of tubes...FROM TUBES! But I must confess I have a POD and a SansAmp.

[not coaster MODERATOR]

Other players are quietly jumping into the Direct guitar market. Check this one out.

 

http://www.voodoolab.com/preamp.html

[coyote]

I have the Behringer unit and I'm happy with it. It has a few quirks of course, but Guitar Center was blowing them out for 120 bucks, and its strengths vastly outweigh its weaknesses. I record direct with it, and the results are definitely good enough. The only things in my studio that cannot be recorded at 2am are the drums/percussion and the Hammond - everything else can go direct and get a good result.

[AudioMaverick]

OK, Rog,

 

I recorded a band with the lead guitarist running through the Johnson J-Station. We got a decent amp effect out of it. But, I did have a couple of issues...

 

The first one I hope is from not reading the manual. I had a really poor gain on the output. So, when I pushed the console gain, I got a -48dB noise floor. I had to use Cool Edit to get it down.

 

The second may hav e also been my not knowing how to use the box. I ran a parametric filte set ove the track to get it an acceptable "warm" tone that would sit in the mix.

 

Overall, the box was pretty cool. I especially liked making changes via a software front end, and saving what I did.

 

It's been almost a month since you started this thread. Let us know if you've goten anything!

[timobrien]

Audiomaverick,

 

If your soundcard supports S/PDIF, use it to record with the J-station.... your soundfloor will go down to -100db (that's what I show on mine.) Use a good S/PDIF cable, not a cheap video cable, too.

 

I'm no guitar player, just bought the J-Station to fill in parts of my music and it >really< makes a difference.

[henryrobinett]

Along the Univalve idea you definitely should check out the Emery amps. http://www.emerysound.com. We have the Superbaby and it screams! Low wattage gets a phenomenal sound.

 

I also have the Sansamp Hardware, rack version at home. In a pinch it's great. That being said I believe in real amps and a mic. Mine, or at least the ones I've been using, are all pretty weird: Seymour Duncan Convertible (Great!), Emery Super Baby, Carr Rambler (also great!). All tube, all the time. Royer 121 -> Millennia Origin STT-1.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by rog951:

Guys,

 

Thanks for the info. I figured I'd get a few "just go buy a tube amp, dumbass" comments Truth is, I've got five tube amps already (not bragging by any stretch; you'd know that if you'd ever seen my pitiful collection)...the modeler was likely gonna be for use only when absolutely necessary. Like when the neighbors complain, etc. Anyway, it'd just be nice to have something I could plug in real quick to preserve a musical idea, not make too much of a racket, and maybe even have a chance of actually being able to keep the track. That THD thing looks pretty damn cool, actually. I hadn't really planned on spending those kinda $$$, but that never stopped me before...

 

rog951....

 

If you opt for the Univalve route, on my feeble website is a table of various tube types and manufacturers that you might find of some interest. Please feel free to copy the table if you wish.

 

There are a lot of studio folks that have gone the Univalve route as it has a transformer isolated output that goes directly to the board, and the input your guitar faces is the proper value, as opposed to a wide group of ranges as found in almost all front end pedal effects.

 

If you like the sound of an effect, numbers or not, then that is a great sound for your application. If you want something that sounds like an actual amp rather than an effect, then using an actual amp is more the key, and this is one area where the Univalve seems to shine.

 

Regards....

[rog951]

Guys,

 

FYI: my J-Station is on it's way. I finally got to try-out all three units (listed in the subject line) side-by-side and the J-Station was the one that fits best for me right now. I wanted good sound and I wanted cheap, and I feel like that's what I'll get. Although it probably has the fewest models of any of the three, it seems like they're all very capable of getting usable sounds (with the possible exception of the acoustic models). The Behringer was in a virtual tie in the sound quality department, IMO, but I just couldn't find a great deal on one. The POD costs more than twice as much as the others...it sounds okay but I really did think it was the weakest of the three by a smidge. This is all very subjective though...they all sounded a whole lot better than I'd expected. The J-Station is only gonna cost me about $120 after all is said and done. Not bad. Also, I think the S/PDIF output is the feature that really sold me. Unfortunately, I didn't get to try the AG Stomp or any of the pricier suggestions you guys had (the THD thingie, in particular, looks very promising... the timing just isn't right for me to spend the $$$). Anyway, thanks for all your suggestions!!! I'll let you know if I still feel good about this thing when I've owned for a few weeks...

[not coaster MODERATOR]

Originally posted by myles111:

If you want something that really sounds and works like a

real amplifier, with all the dynamics and touch sensitivity

of a real amplifier (unlike modeling devices), you need to

use a real amp.

 

The best recording amp today, and the most versitile, with

a line out (for both use as a pre-amp to another amp, and

a feed to a recording console or house system), which is

also buffered, is the hit amp of the last NAMM show, the

THD Univalve. The are not too expensive, although more than

a POD Pro but not made in Malaysia and ARE built correctly.

 

You can check out their website at www.thdelectronics.com

 

I have used GT speaker emulators, GT Guirat preamps, direct

boxes, H&K red boxes, various line pads, etc. The THD is

the best unit I have ever found, and is very versitile ....

you can get high gain, low gain, blues, metal, etc ....

depending on the settings and tubes used. It also makes

one great amplifier in its own right.

 

Also look at www.harmonycentral.com and go to the amp

section and look at the reviews of that amp by others.

 

Being a class A amp with no feedback loop, even in high

distortion, you hear every string rather than them all

mushed together.

 

I also have some Univalve specs using different tubes on

my own website at www.geocities.com/myles111us

 

Hope this helped a little.

 

Myles

 

 

Nice Amp. The samples are dynamite

[gmd]

I am an engineer as well as a guitar player, and I'll have to agree with Myles Rose's post above. If you want a great guitar sound, you need to use an amp. I have used the Pod, the J-station, the Hughes & Ketner Red Box, etc., and we always end up erasing those tracks and re-recording with a real amp. The amp-modelers sound good at first, but when you hear them in a mix with real instruments they sound artificial...

[Scott Jones]

Originally posted by gmd:

I am an engineer as well as a guitar player, and I'll have to agree with Myles Rose's post above. If you want a great guitar sound, you need to use an amp. I have used the Pod, the J-station, the Hughes & Ketner Red Box, etc., and we always end up erasing those tracks and re-recording with a real amp. The amp-modelers sound good at first, but when you hear them in a mix with real instruments they sound artificial...

 

Yeah, definitely when you can, use amps...but, as is often the case, the modelers are used out of time constraints or convenience...

 

I, too, am an engineer as well as guitarist, and often use the POD when my amp rig is not time efficient...

 

Here's a couple of demos of mine using both rigs, both are with a live band:

 

Live Solo w/amp rig -MP3

 

Live Solo w/amp rig -STREAMING

 

Next: a Funk/Fusion arrangement of mine of Amazing Grace

 

Live performance w/POD -MP3

 

Live performance w/POD -STREAMING

 

And these all in the studio with the POD:

 

Here's a heavier kind of tune I did just for kicks...

 

No More Mr. Nice Guy -STREAMING

 

No More Mr. Nice Guy -MP3

 

I played/recorded a drum solo to which I then played/added a free-form guitar solo...

 

Me-guitar and drums -STREAMING

 

Me-guitar and drums -MP3

 

Anyway, I love both rigs for different reasons...both are effective and valid tools...

 

Peace,

 

Scott Jones

 

www.scottjonesmusic.com

 

[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: Sjonesmusic ]

[dreibel]

In my case, I live in a basement bedsit, with a Peavey Classic 50 and a Shure SM-57. I also got an original SansAmp (the one marketed now by Tech21 as the Classic) for those times when the landlady and her grandkids get too rambunctious to include on my tracks

 

So far, the Classic seems to be the winner overall (I use it in conjunction with a Roland GP-8). But the SansAmp is capable of some great tones when run direct into the computer's mike input, it's just a matter of tweezing the dials until you find its sweet spot.

 

One thing where the SansAmp excels - bass. I've struggled for years to get a good tone running direct from an electric bass, and it was too dull, too distorted, too weak. The first time I plugged into the SansAmp I was able to dial in a great bass tone immediately. So it's earning its keep in that regard.....

[llib]

I haven't had a chance to record with the POD, but i've

[llib]

Sorry, not paying attention. anyway POD's seem to sound great especially for real heavy stuff. Great bang for the buck. I've been using a mesa formula pre amp for almost a year, and I really enjoy working with it. It's just like a three channel head. It has a great sparkling,glassy clean sound, and it's real sensitive to your dynamics as a player while recording. If you have a guitar that you really like the sound of the formula is a great amp, you hear the wood and tone of the pickups of your guitar. By the way my home studio is real basic stuff, acid,sound forge, an m-audio sound card/breakout box and that's about it. I figure if it sounds good to me now, it should sound great with better recording gear "down the road"

[michael saulnier]

Rog,

 

The responses to your post kinda got into the "real tube amp vs. modeler" debate when your question really was "what's the best to use for quiet or late night playing".

 

The good news is that the number of products for this has exploded in the last year. Not only are there the "classic" tools like the SansAmp, POD, and Johnson modelers, but several other firms have jumped into the game including Digitech, Yamaha, Roland and many others.

 

I've had a POD for nearly 2 years, and haven't had any reliability problems with it. It's no tube amp, but it is pretty cool.

 

I personally don't like the Johnson modeler's tones, they sound to "metallic" to me, but others love them. I have tried the DG Stomp, and liked the clean sounds alot. The SansAmp classic is a tried and true product, and the COSM effects in the recent Roland products have a certain "sound" to them. Some like them some don't. I couldn't find a way to make the Digitech RP100 sound good to my ears...

 

My best advice would be to head to a major retailer who has a liberal return policy, and start in on them. If you're really only trying to find a quiet tool, and you won't be using the sounds for professional purposes, start with the cheap ones and keep going until you find one that you can stand.

 

good luck and have fun!

 

guitplayer