sidereal Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 Hi all, I'm in need of some expert advice... I'm a drummer in a well-established and frequently gigging cover band that is about to lose its keyboard player. So we're going from a 5-piece to a 4-piece. The problem is that the guitarist in the band needs to now handle all melodic chores (outside the singer of course). He plays a Les Paul through a Line 6 pedal board to a Line 6 amp, but he only uses two sounds: that Les Paul overdriven rock distortion, and a clean tone for funk. But with the keyboardist gone, he's going to have to diversify his sound pallette. I don't mean going all Roland synthy, but can you all tell me what is a good, relatively simple and inexpensive way to give him more sounds to choose from? I'm talking gear (keeping in mind the gear he currently has) and also how much programming he'd have to spend time doing. Is it just a matter of getting a multi-effects unit and spending the time to get it sounding good? he tried to do this once before but everything turned out to be too chorus-y and he wasn't the best programmer in the world, so he sold it back. The guy can be a bit lazy, so I want to make us sound as full as possible on stage, without too much time or money invested in the effort. Thanks! Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 Hi sidereal , It really depends on what kinda stuff you play and what kinda sounds specifically you will need. My band is a 3 piece and I have to get lots of different sounds, but I don't really have anything fancy. For gigs, I carry 3 guitars: my Les Paul, Tele and Rickenbacker 12-string, which varies the sound a lot in itself. I have a vintage Fender amp which is of course not programmable. The only effects I use are a fuzz box and sometimes an Echoplex. I have an E-Bow too which can get some freaky sounds, and I play slide. My amp has built in reverb and tremelo. That's about it except for an Ernie Ball volume pedal. I don't have any problem getting a wide enough variety of sounds out of this setup, but I don't know what you're looking for from your guitarist. Are you wanting him to do synth-like parts? What styles do you guys play? Is the problem simply that you don't think the sounds are varied enough, or are there specific songs where you're trying to emulate the original recording and the guitarist can't get the sound? I guess we would need a little more info before being able to offer a helpful answer. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidereal Posted November 8, 2001 Author Share Posted November 8, 2001 Hi Lee... I wondered if you might respond first. Originally posted by Lee Flier: Are you wanting him to do synth-like parts? What styles do you guys play? Is the problem simply that you don't think the sounds are varied enough, or are there specific songs where you're trying to emulate the original recording and the guitarist can't get the sound? Styles we play are varied. We do a great deal of funk, a lot of 80s stuff, some disco, modern rock and some heavy stuff. So we'd like to get more of those styles of guitar going. We're a high-energy band so I'd like it if he could get some more varied cleaner sounds going. I don't want to tell a guitarist how to sound, but that heavy Les Paul thing just ain't happening with the way we play. I don't know if he needs compression or whatever... he's got that Line 6 amp. That's supposed to model different amps and cabinets, right? Is it just a matter of digging into that and start changing models for different songs. It would also be nice if he could get some more sounds to cover some of the keyboard parts. I don't know if it's a matter of having some hardware effects? I played recently in a band where the guitarist called up a different sound for each song. It either matched the original song, or it was a just a different cool sound. I suppose I'd be happy if the songs showed some variety and some resemblance to the original tune. The singer and I have been talking about all this and we're trying to figure out what exactly to ask of him. Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrmac Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 Losing the keyboard really makes a huge difference in the types of material that you can do comfortably. I've played in a lot of three piece bands and also four and five piece groups with keyboards and a singer and there is a big difference in the material we did in each case. I think you should consider making adjustments in you repertoire to reflect the new lineup or else you should consider getting another keyboard player. I can also tell you that a Les Paul is not the most versatile guitar in the world. I'm surprised that your guitarist even uses one to play in a band that does a lot of funk songs. It seems like a Strat would be better in the long run. I have a Strat a Les Paul and a Tele and I can cover more bases with the Strat than the others. I usually only use the Les Paul for blues. This is not a hard and fast rule though because I remember seeing Tower of Power a long time ago and the guitarist played a Les Paul. He definately didn't have any problem being funky with it either. Mac Bowne G-Clef Acoustics Ltd. Osaka, Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanner Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 I usually only use the Les Paul for blues. This is not a hard and fast rule though because I remember seeing Tower of Power a long time ago and the guitarist played a Les Paul. He definately didn't have any problem being funky with it either.[/QB] was the name of T O P's guitar slinger and man did he have a groove or what? to me he was/is the funkiest guitarer player i ever saw and prooved that you can "funkafize" on a 'les paul'. (and message to sidereal):git a new keyboard guy cause if this guitar guy aint gittin it-he aint gonna git it-imho s AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 You might be better off figuring out how to rearrange parts to make the new band sound good; for anything funky like that trying to do what was keyboard parts on guitar, either with a synth, is probably going to fall flat in comparison. (IMO). Are you talking horn parts, or what? Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanner Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 I usually only use the Les Paul for blues. This is not a hard and fast rule though because I remember seeing Tower of Power a long time ago and the guitarist played a Les Paul. He definately didn't have any problem being funky with it either.[/QB] was the name of T O P's guitar slinger and man did he have a groove or what? to me he was/is the funkiest guitarer player i ever saw and prooved that you can "funkafize" on a 'les paul'. (and message to sidereal):git a new keyboard guy cause if this guitar guy aint gittin it-he aint gonna git it-imho s AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidereal Posted November 8, 2001 Author Share Posted November 8, 2001 Thanks everyone... No horn parts, nothing too complex. It can still be within a rock band context, but really getting more sounds happening with the guitar, that seems to be the main concern. We will change some of the repertoire, but we need to try and keep with what's been working so well. We decided not to get another keyboard player for various reasons (money mostly). So I'm hoping we can pull this off with a few adjustments to the lead instrument. Interesting about the Les Paul... I've always assumed that was the case. Any thoughts on compression, FX, tweaking with the Line 6 amp? Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 The Line 6 amp should be able to deliver a lot of different tones that are readily available through the foot controller. That's what that amp is designed for (and the only reason to buy it IMHO). I would suggest that the guitar player spend some time working on some different clean sounds (i.e. Vox-like, Tweed, etc) and he can use different ones for different songs. He also might invest in some "gimicky" stomp boxes that would drastically effect his tone and use each for only one or two songs. Ring modulators, envelope filters, etc. Get him to check out some of ZVEX's crazy effects such as the Seek Wah and Probe. Good luck. "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 sidereal, Well I have to disagree about the Les Paul, I can get virtually any sound out of mine with the right amp and/or effects, from very heavy to as clean and purty as you like... but I digress. Anyway, yes, the Line 6 is specifically designed to model different types of amps and there is no reason your guitarist can't get a wide variety of sounds from it. If he's using the same tones all the time and they're not fitting in with the songs, then I think you should tell him just that. Ask him to experiment with trying out different models and tweaking the amp. A few stomp boxes may be in order if he doesn't have them. Obviously if you're doing funk and disco he'd probably need a wah wah, and the cool thing about a wah wah is that you don't have to use it as a wah wah - you can also use it as a tone control, just set it where it sounds good and then leave it. Make this suggestion carefully though - some guitar players dreadfully abuse wah wah's. Using a lot of delays can be good too with the 3-piece instrumentation because it makes the guitar sound fuller even when it's clean. U2 is a great example of this. Line 6 makes a delay modeler that can get all kinds of cool sounds. I might own one if it weren't for the fact that I have an Echoplex. Anyway it sounds like the bottom line is that as you said, he's just being a bit lazy and not taking the time to experiment with different sounds. If you ask him to do this and do it in an encouraging way, like, "Wouldn't it be cool if...?" hopefully that would motivate him to figure out what he needs in terms of gear. Also some of it is probably an arrangement issue and if he gets the feeling that you're all in it together, that you're all going to do things to help make the songs work with the 3 piece format, that will also probably be motivating. I feel your pain though - our band would really like to be a 4 piece but we refuse to add anybody unless they really fit the part both musically and personally. Until then, we'll do without! We have all had to work on doing things to make the songs work in that format. Luckily everybody is motivated to do that, but it is still a process that requires patience and discussion. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BandyLou Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 a wah wah pedal a flanger an envelope filter simple, analogue, not 'chours-ey,' and funky. get this guy to listen to some songs and gtr. players he likes, or make him a tape with some cool gtr. sounds on it. nothin' a little listening and a few cheap stomp boxes can't solve, if you ask me. peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidereal Posted November 8, 2001 Author Share Posted November 8, 2001 Wow, thanks everyone! Great replies... The singer and I will suggest he program different amp models for different songs to better match the original tunes. Also suggest he invest in a wah and a delay. Yeah, the guy's lazy, but he's also very dedicated to the band and open to suggestion. I think he'll be receptive, but we'll have to inspire him to get his ass in gear. Lee, don't ever give up that Echoplex. Thanks again... Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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