Level of Detail (LOD)

[ITGITC]

I received my copy of Electronic Musician in the mail yesterday (March 2003). After getting a few minutes to check it out, I read an article in the back of the magazine about Level of Detail (LOD) by Larry the O called You Got to Carry the LOD. It was about how some albums are produced with not only great care - regarding the sonics, but also things like subliminal messages & sounds. Perhaps sounds or effects that are almost under the threshold of hearing. I got to thinking about some of my favorite albums (CDs) and which ones would fall into this category. Naturally , Steely Dan's 'Aja' came to mind and remains at the top of my list. I've listened to this LP, and CD over and over again. The quality of the recording and the quality of the musicianship continues to impress me. I listen with speakers as well as with headphones. I use the CD to check out various speakers in stores when I'm making a purchase. Sure, I'll put it back on the shelf after awhile, but I'll always come back to it. So, I was wondering if any of you had an album like this. Maybe Pink Floyd's 'Dark Side of the Moon'... or Pat Metheney's white album (titled Pat Metheney) - it was one of his first. Perhaps The Beatle's 'Abbey Road'. Anyway, it was a good article. I'm sure you have your favorites & I'm interested in what they are... and why you chose them.

[Gtoledo3]

Paul McCartney's RAM. A super headphone album. Burt Bacharach's greatest hits. The one w/ the semi instrumental versions, and his face on the cover. Toby Mac's Momentum...christian rap-rock would make most people want to barf, I'm sure, but the level of detail on this album is stunning. Quincy Jones Soul Bossa Nova. Impeccable.

[Dave Pierce]

I'm sure I could think of more if I gave it time, but these three come immediately to mind: [i]Hemispheres[/i] - Rush [i]Wish You Were Here[/i] - Pink Floyd [i]Physical Graffiti[/i] - Led Zeppelin --Dave

[Mats Olsson.]

Quincy Jones - Back on the Block /Mats

[videoeditor1]

Single: Seal - Kiss by a Rose Single: Sade - "Woman in Somalia"

[Botch.]

Aja was my first, my second is Dire Straits' "Brothers in Arms"

[DJDM]

For me it would have to be any of the 4AD material that came out under the umbrella of Ivo Watts-Russell between 1980 and 1990. Great use of effects to set up atmosphere and tape/sample loops that transcended the genre at the time. See particularly the work of the Cocteau Twins, This Mortal Coil and Dead Can Dance. Depech Mode's "Some Great Reward" album for being the first recording to actually scare me a bit with it's use of strange noise samples and odd bits of residual audio. Listen to it with headphones in a dark room sometime. :freak: Of the modern recordings that intrigue me I would say that most of the Curve albums (except the really early eps) are full of strange and wonderful audio. :) Also very fond of the work that Radiohead and Bjork's teams have been cranking out for the last ten years. The "Radio Axiom" album by Jah Wobble and Bill Laswell is so rich you need a knife to slice that one up. Almost anything by Amon Tobin and/or Source Direct are other great examples of fully intriguing recordings. Also of note would just about anything produced by Daniel Lanoise (especially the "Wrecking Ball" album!). Also take a listen to Modest Mouse's "the lonesome crowded west". Lots of nice lo-fi studio work on that that takes the album from "art" with a little "a" to "Art" with a big "A" and makes you scratch your head over the techniques a bit. Deeper than it appears at first. These are not the best examples of musicianship (I listen to Mahler recordings for that) but they do in my mind mange to set up a dizzying amount of atmosphere with noise, odd harmonics and sound alongside the lovely, mostly simple arrangements. - DJDM

[Gtoledo3]

Nyc Drew- You're really right about the Seal track! It's a friend of mine's favorite track for that kind of thing. Also, XTC Oranges And Lemons. That Three CD album by AFKAP. Anything by Prince.

[Super 8]

Roxy Music!!!! Pretty much anything from Siren to Avalon especially stand out -even though Eno had left the band long before. And of course, Bryan Ferry's solo stuff too! Especially Boys and Girls to the present. The more you listen, the more you hear. The level of detail is intense, yet it's done so tastefully that it never crowds the mix or sticks out. It's always very subtle and gradually shifts your awareness. Funny how few people in the States have even heard of them... Pink Floyd is an obvious choice. Dark Side will always be considered their masterwork. But in my opinion, Animals surpasses Dark Side in every way, and the level of detail on that album is [b]amazing[/b]! I'm especially fond of the interlude on Sheep where -for just a brief moment- they fade in that echo-loop from Dogs [i]"stone-stone-stone-stone"[/i]. It REALLY ties the album together conceptually. Also, Roger Water's solo stuff is very special too, though certainly under appreciated since none of it sounds like Pink Floyd re-treads...

[DJDM]

[quote]Originally posted by Super 8: [b]Roxy Music!!!! Pretty much anything from Siren to Avalon especially stand out -even though Eno had left the band long before. And of course, Bryan Ferry's solo stuff too! Especially Boys and Girls to the present. The more you listen, the more you hear. The level of detail is intense, yet it's done so tastefully that it never crowds the mix or sticks out. It's always very subtle and gradually shifts your awareness. Funny how few people in the States have even heard of them... [/b][/quote]Damn good call! I thought of them but forgot as I rambled on and on about everyone [b]but[/b] Roxy and Brian Ferry! Classic stuff. Have you heard the BF solo track "Is Your Love Strong Enough" from the "Legend" soundtrack? IMHO some of his finest work. :) - DJDM

[Philip OKeefe]

For reference and acclimation, I normally use The Beatles - Revolver Steely Dan - Aja Squeeze - Tempted (from the Reality Bites Soundtrack - the GOOD mix version of this song) Seal - "No Easy Way" (Thanks DB!) Matthew Sweet - "Girlfriend" ...and several others, including a few things I personally did.

[hard truth]

Material's Halucination Engine album,featuring bassist-producer Bill Laswell. Lush,varied, detailed, beautiful, unique. And as an added bonus, a beautiful sprano sax solo by Wayne Shorter. EVERY Musician should hear this album, one of the best in recent years.

[Super 8]

[quote]Originally posted by DJDM: [b]Have you heard the BF solo track "Is Your Love Strong Enough" from the "Legend" soundtrack? IMHO some of his finest work.[/b][/quote]Yes, it's quite nice. If memory serves, he was actually doing guest vocals on that track. That's David Gilmore on guitar and he scored the soundtrack to the film. This of course ties in nicely with my former post, since Roxy and Pink Floyd were the only bands I mentioned... :D Speaking of electronic music like you were mentioning -Bjork ect. I might as well throw my card in for The Orb... I don't listen to a lot of music in this genre because frankly, a lot of it isn't that good. I think it's too easy to let your FX processers and beat boxes do all of the work -but there certainly ARE exceptions... Bjork, as you mentioned is incredible. The Orb has been a favorite of mine for roughly ten years now. Tracks that stand out include: Oobe -from Live93 Fluffy White Clouds (particularly the LONG intro which is completely surreal; [i]"this man has a machine inside his stomach"[/i])-also from Live93. Alles Ist Schoen -from Pomme Fritz is very meditative and encourages you to hear the detail in the sound. Just about everything on Orblivian. Great stuff! I wouldn't have mentioned this genre of music because in terms of "detail", it's overflowing -but often to the point of just being 'ear candy'. But as I said, there are exceptions where the sonic detail sounds very 'crafted' and purposeful. [quote]Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe: [b]Squeeze - Tempted (from the Reality Bites Soundtrack - the GOOD mix version of this song) Matthew Sweet - "Girlfriend" ...and several others, including a few things I personally did.[/b][/quote]Hey Phil, Ditto on the "GOOD mix version" of Tempted! This is the one that has the really live sounding drums on it, correct? I wasn't aware that it was from a soundtrack, but yeah GREAT tune! You did tracks for Matthew Sweet? You must be pretty sucessful at your studio. I'm sure there is no shortage of competition out there to contend with. Kudos to you, man!

[DJDM]

[quote]Originally posted by Super 8: [b]Yes, it's quite nice. If memory serves, he was actually doing guest vocals on that track. That's David Gilmore on guitar and he scored the soundtrack to the film. This of course ties in nicely with my former post, since Roxy and Pink Floyd were the only bands I mentioned... :D [/b][/quote]Hmmm. I hate to be a nit picker but the soundtrack for the theatrical release of Legend is by Tangerine Dream. This eclipsed the original (and IMHO better) soundtrack that was originally scored by Jerry Goldsmith. The studio switched them because TD was a much cooler property at the time. I seem to remember Gilmore may have played guitar on the track but it is credited to Brian Ferry on the album as one of his songs and is credited to him as a solo artist. - DJDM

[Chip McDonald]

Reznor's _The Downward Spiral_ probably has the most sonic detail that I've heard. All sorts of texural changes, production style changes, layers and layers of ear candy, subtle stereo and phase things going on, stacked parts shifting in and out... ultra detailed. But the Seal stuff is amazingly perfect from an "ear candy" detail bits point of view. Of course Floyd are the kings of sonic detail...

[Philip OKeefe]

[quote]Originally posted by Super 8: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe: [b]Squeeze - Tempted (from the Reality Bites Soundtrack - the GOOD mix version of this song) Matthew Sweet - "Girlfriend" ...and several others, including a few things I personally did.[/b][/quote]Hey Phil, Ditto on the "GOOD mix version" of Tempted! This is the one that has the really live sounding drums on it, correct? I wasn't aware that it was from a soundtrack, but yeah GREAT tune! You did tracks for Matthew Sweet? You must be pretty sucessful at your studio. I'm sure there is no shortage of competition out there to contend with. Kudos to you, man![/b][/quote]I only wish! :) No, I've never worked with him. I think most of his stuff was with Brendan O'Brien. What I was trying to say was that I use some other CD's for reference, in addition to the ones I specifically listed, and those "other CD's" include a couple of albums I did work on. Not because I conside them to be stellar examples of audio engineering achievement, but because I am very familiar with them. I apologise for any confusion. BTW, yes, the "good" version of "Tempted" has "more stuff" in it - better sounding drums, more organ, guitar parts, BGV's, ear candy in general. And most important, a much better lead vocal performance IMO.

[Gtoledo3]

So the version from the album is totally different, or just partially different. Was the "good" mix put out as asingle originally. It seems weird that som many years later they would do a new mix and actually add parts. I never thought the album version was bad, so I'm interested in the "better" version.

[Empty Planet]

Scary Monsters. tv and the carrot top all the way.

[Kendrix]

I agree with several of the things already listed here. The Seal album/cut is absolutely stellar. One thing I'd add are some of the old Ambrosia albums. Very complex orchestration and compostion. Pretty good sonics given the vintage of the recordings. Id highlight the first self titled album and the second - " Somewhere Ive Never Traveled". Back to the near-present: Spiritualized and the first Radiohead are very multi-layered. I would not use these as sonic reference sources-but the subliminal aspect is there big time.

[Gtoledo3]

The Michael Jackson Beat It album is also really good for that kind of thing (I know, I know). I put that song "The Way You Make Me Feel" on my reference CD.

[G. Ratte]

Yeah, I had "Thriller" on the iPod headphones earlier today and thought of this thread. There's a really cool theramin part in the right channel while Vincent Price is doing his monologue. THen later on I was listening to the Brothers Johnson tune, "Stomp"...rad. Quincy Jones is a total bad-ass.

[Super 8]

[quote]Originally posted by DJDM: [b]Hmmm. I hate to be a nit picker but. . . - DJDM[/b][/quote]DJDM, that wasn't the first time I've blathered on and on about something and hadn't the slightest clue what the hell I was talking about -and I assure you, it won't be the last time either. :thu: Thanks for setting me straight. ;)

[Salyphus]

Great thread :thu: Today, I'll nominate the Pat Metheny album Secret Story. Incredible level of detail in that one, check it out. I could think of lots of others :)

[DJDM]

[quote]Originally posted by Super 8: [b] [quote]Originally posted by DJDM: [b]Hmmm. I hate to be a nit picker but. . . - DJDM[/b][/quote]DJDM, that wasn't the first time I've blathered on and on about something and hadn't the slightest clue what the hell I was talking about -and I assure you, it won't be the last time either. :thu: Thanks for setting me straight. ;) [/b][/quote]Thanks for bring back a fond memory. I need to find that album! :)

[richt]

Talk Talk: Spirit of Eden / Laughing Stock: Good Sunday morning albums and very detailed. Eno: Nerve Net: An aural feast from start to finish. Techno/Electronic doesn't get any better. Bowie: Earthling: Despite being recorded in 16-bit Pro-Tools (sounds a bit gritty)it rocks!! Best album from him in years, lots of ear candy. Mike Garson and Reeves Gabrels added a lot to this one! Donald Fagen: Kamakiriad: You expect audio perfection from this guy and the record delivers!! Sounds much better than Steely's 2 Against Nature, IMO. Steely Dan: Gaucho: I prefer it both musically and production-wise to Aja (still a phenomonally great record, tho). This was the zenith of analog in '79/'80. Great tones, vibe and performances. Recoil: Alan Wilder's (formerly of Depeche Mode) project. The "Bloodline" ('92) album is very good, Toni Halliday (Curve), Moby (his track "Curse" is a spine-tingler!)and Bukka White (Yes, really!) are on it!! "Unsound Methods" ('97)is simply one of the most unique creations ever. Check it out!! Jean-Michel Jarre: "Oxygene" ('76),"Equinoxe" ('78), "Zoolook" ('84). Musically and tonally very detailed. Might not be everyone's cup of tea (New Age/Synthy), but very impressive. "Oxygene" was recorded on 8-track and "Zoolook" was one of the first digital albums; this has some very funky vocal samples and groovy stuff. Laurie Anderson makes an appearance, even! Maybe more later... Richt

[RobT]

[quote]Originally posted by S.A.L.: [b]Great thread :thu: Today, I'll nominate the Pat Metheny album Secret Story. Incredible level of detail in that one, check it out. I could think of lots of others :) [/b][/quote]I love that one. Also Metheny's We Live Here. Pancho Sanchez's Latin Soul. Steely Dan's Aja. Stevie Wonder's Music of My Mind and Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon make good reference sounds for checking out speakers. DJDM - that Depeche Mode Some Great Reward scared the heck out me the first I heard it. My roomate bought and I put it on after a hard day of crunching code in class and at work. I was not ready for some of the sounds and odd audio bits on it!

[Magpel]

Lots come to mind, but the first, strangely, is Shawn Colvin's A Few Small Repairs, which squeezes more subtle detail into a "folk rock" album than I've ever heard before. It's tough to say where compositional/arranging detail ends and production detail begins. Also I second Oranges and Lemons, XTC's busiest album, but in a good way. A lot of Paul Fox's stuff is densely packed. Recently getting off on the sonic detail of Fiona Apple's second album, the one with the endless title. I really dig Jon Brion as a producer. This one has tons of quirky detail within minimalist parameters. Oh, yes, and the novels of Martin Amis come to mind.

[DJDM]

[quote]Originally posted by RobT: [b] DJDM - that Depeche Mode Some Great Reward scared the heck out me the first I heard it. My roomate bought and I put it on after a hard day of crunching code in class and at work. I was not ready for some of the sounds and odd audio bits on it![/b][/quote]Bit creepy isn’t it? ;)