gtr Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Hey all! I am looking for ideas on how to do this. I use a Yamaha/soldano T-100 head into an old Marshall 4x12 cab. Love the sound - have used it on several records, and tons live. Problem is - I want to use some outboard gear now - ie - a Lexicon verb, Q20, etc. In the studio of course you can put this on later - but for my live rig what I do is run the T-100 into the cab dry, then go out of the preamp out to the rack of stuff and into a power amp and then into a stereo cab. Sounds good - but...... I want to make the rig a bit smaller and not have to run an extra cab all the time. So the dilema is - the loop on the T-100 is like most loops, inadeqate - too funky to get levels correct. I have considered getting a stomp box for distortion, and then going into the effects and then the amp, but I cannot find a distortion pedal that gives me the same tone/response I get from the raw amp sound. I have used an old tube screamer, blues driver, and the line 6 modeler, but none of them sound as good as my amp distortion!! So... I just want some stinkin' verb and delay!!!! But I want my amp sound too!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/redface.gif) I've talked to lots of pro amp gurus about this, but thought I would ask the faithful here at the forum for any opinions on a better tube type distortion pedal or a better option to get it all hooked up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHAN Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 Ever thought about going out of your preamp into a small mixer. Maybe something like that Mackie 12 channel. Then you could mix the dry sound with your effects added back into the T-100 poweramp. So Many Drummers. So Little Time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtr Posted May 25, 2001 Author Share Posted May 25, 2001 If I go out of the pre out (slave out) into the board etc etc - would I then come back into the effects return??? Thanks - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHAN Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 Yep. The FX return goes directly to the power amp. So Many Drummers. So Little Time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtr Posted May 25, 2001 Author Share Posted May 25, 2001 Ok, but if I send the pre out to the mixer/effects - then back into the effects loop - won't I actually be doubling the distortion sent to the power amp section?? Because even if there is something hooked up to the pre out - the pre signal still goes to the power amp section and out the speaker outs.???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 Originally posted by gtr: Ok, but if I send the pre out to the mixer/effects - then back into the effects loop - won't I actually be doubling the distortion sent to the power amp section?? Because even if there is something hooked up to the pre out - the pre signal still goes to the power amp section and out the speaker outs.???? There are two types of effects loops, parallel and series. Parallel allows you to essentially split the signal off and return it as a seperate incoming signal, like a mixer; you should have a "blend" knob if that's the case... if not, that must be the problem... in which case you would solve it by setting the mix on your rack effects to 100% wet/effected signal, then adjust the output level on the effects to suit your taste. I'd bet this is your situation. If it's series, then plugging into the return should effectively negate the path of the signal from the preamp section to the post amp section. Since it's marked "preamp out" I would assume this is not the case. What is your "return" labeled as? ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtr Posted May 25, 2001 Author Share Posted May 25, 2001 Well - the "preamp out" is actually labeled "Slave out". And there is a level knob for that - then there is just effect send and return. The loop is post preamp, pre eq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted May 27, 2001 Share Posted May 27, 2001 Originally posted by gtr: Well - the "preamp out" is actually labeled "Slave out". And there is a level knob for that - then there is just effect send and return. The loop is post preamp, pre eq. Hmm... maybe you need to elaborate on you level matching problem? ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtr Posted May 28, 2001 Author Share Posted May 28, 2001 Well - the "slave out" works fine with nothing plugged into the effects loop - but if I try to go from the slave out to a mixer then to the effects return - it basically shuts down the signal - all I can hear is a faint signal that sounds like the spring reverb. Tried to "trick" it by putting a dummy load on the effects loop send - no worky!! So the loop and the slave don't seem to work together http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/redface.gif( - When I use the loop by itself - It hits ANY effect too hard - so by the time I get the signal into the effect or mixer - it is so low that I can't boost the output enough to get my amp signal back! More suggestions??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 Originally posted by gtr: Well - the "slave out" works fine with nothing plugged into the effects loop - but if I try to go from the slave out to a mixer then to the effects return - it basically shuts down the signal - all I can hear is a faint signal that sounds like the spring reverb. The slave out is probably post effects loop; they're assuming you want the sound coming out of that one head to come from another power source as well, effects and all... When I use the loop by itself - It hits ANY effect too hard - so by the time I get the signal into the effect or mixer - it is so low that I can't boost the output enough to get my amp signal back! That's odd; you mean, even if you turn the input level down on the effect it's peaking? What processor are you using? Does the head have a switch for line level/+4? ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtr Posted May 29, 2001 Author Share Posted May 29, 2001 I have tried using it with a Q2, TC - M-one - Lexicon alex - and plugging it into my Mackie board. No +4 switch on the head. If I turn the input way down on the effect to where it is reading a normal signal - I can't make the output loud enough to get the amp back up to the volume it is without the effects. frustrating - - thanks for your help - may just have to plug into the ol twin http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/redface.gif) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 Originally posted by gtr: can't make the output loud enough to get the amp back up to the volume it is without the effects. frustrating - - thanks for your help - may just have to plug into the ol twin http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/redface.gif) No, wait.... when you turn the input gain down, do you still get full signal indicated on the input meters of the effects unit? ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 I like the KISS method....simplicity is the absolute key to better tone....whether it's echo'd or phased or whatever. I'd put all the time based effects through the effects loop and front end with your compression and distortion/overdrive. Can't get much simpler than that. Other than the way I set up to play. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtr Posted May 29, 2001 Author Share Posted May 29, 2001 When I turn the input on the effects down - it does not register on the effect meters. Is that what you were asking? Hope so - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Originally posted by gtr: When I turn the input on the effects down - it does not register on the effect meters. Is that what you were asking? Hope so - Well, I'm assuming all of your rack mounted effects have input meters on them. When you say that you turn the inputs down on them and then don't get enough output level, I'm essentially asking if you're still getting enough signal (displayed via the meters) on the input? Since the effects loop taps into the amp circuit after the preamp, there's a good bit of juice going into the power amp; but still, you should have enough make up gain on most processors coming out of them to compensate (although it's a yucky thing to have to do; but if you *have* to have effects in such a manner there's no choice....). ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 It sounds like a gain structure problem. It would seem you're lowering and raising the levels of amplification at different points in the circuit to compensate for other poorly setup gain stages. If this is NOT the case, you can buy a bump box from Ebtech that connects -10dBv to +4dBv equipment, and is a hum eliminator too. I wish I could see the amp panel. Can you take a pic and post it with a reply. Click on the "UBB Code is ON" writing, to the left of the reply box when posting to see how to link a pic from another site. Neil It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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