do ya need them tubes?

[strat0124]

 

I think that's kinda funny. Whatever pedestrian music is. There is a stark difference between musicians who are performers, and musicians who play for an audience of ONE, beating out hits in privacy. The whole "Cover Band" thing gets carried around alot in MANY circles, in a negative way. Possibly because of the competition getting work and dealing with club owners that want to hear the new Creed song. When I think of a cover band I think of the top 40 bands or the Southern Rock denziens...etc. But if you really break it down, blues acts are doing alot of covers...but they don't get called COVERBAND. In our band, we do obscure covers mixed in with original stuff. I ain't gonna diss a working "coverband", I may not enjoy their setlist, but at least they're working and not crying foul from their bedrooms.

Modeling amps to me just lack the tone of a true tube amp. They do have HUGE pluses though, like being able to create a vibe (albeit not as toneful) at a decent volume and send a line to the PA without a mic. Anybody who has a tube amp knows very well that unless it's cranked it's true potential isn't realized. Yeah you can front end them with a pedal or crank the master to add the dirt and sustain....but it's a FAR FAR cry from power tube saturation, therin lies the sweet tube tone.

While I agree with most of you about solid states/emulation (see my earlier post with analogy: SS/emulation to Tubes is like O'Douls to Bass Ale), I do draw the line with dogging out folks who use them, or use them as a working musicians tools. I may joke them....but that's it. Hey I get joked as well......but I'm not thin skinned, and surly enough not to give a damn! In that regard I'm like Dubya....I got mine...get yours! Ha Ha!!!! You'll never see any comparison of me to Dubya EVER again.....the bastard lived in Texas.....but his lineage is New England, so I'm safe. Sorta.

[jef5f]

Dylan Walters, it sounds like you need my 66 Ampeb Reverberocket 2. It is a killer 30 watt amp with a JBL K120 (120 watts) speaker. There is so much headroom, wow. Using a PV Generation with the active electronics, I had to turn the amp up to 8 or 9 to get it to break up. Turn the added pre-amp off, and it is an apartment volume amp. Look for an old Ampeg.

[Dylan]

Thanks for the feedback Jeff, but I broke down this weekend and bought a used Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. I'm sure that the Ampeg is a killer amp, and I'll definitely keep my eyes peeled for it in the future. It would of been nice to have less wattage/weight to worry about, but I needed the amp for a gig so I couldn't wait any longer. Thanks again,

 

Dylan

[Chip McDonald]

Originally posted by Dylan Walters:

There's a big difference with your run of the mill solid state amp and a modeling amp.

 

I agree, but it's still drastically different in the low end, even more noticeable if you A/B them with what they're modelling. In addition to all of my tube amps, I have a Pod Pro BTW.

 

or even a Fender Performer/RocPro 1000

 

I don't care for those amps - they do a bright metal sound, and a bright clean sound, but sound very ss to me.... Stiffer sounding/feeling as you turn the volume up, although a little more detailed than Peavey SS amps, though... My major complaint is as below...:

 

{b]to a Line 6 or comparable model amp. Solid state amps seem to "breath" more in my experience.[/b]

 

They usually behave like they have more headroom in the top harmonic range at low/moderate volumes, which makes clean sounds have that "clinically" bright sound and causes problems with gained sound IMO. "Breath" to me is how the amp's dynamics work with your touch. SS amps, barring modelling amps, have a very linear response IMO; the sound doesn't change much, just gets louder and softer. A good tube amp, with a little bit of volume on it, let's you do all sorts of timbral things based on your touch.

 

Granted, a lot of people don't take advantage of that I think... Hmm. I might upload a soundfile of something I did a few days ago at a gig that might represent what I'm talking about, since I always get email when I expound on this topic claiming I'm talking out my rear....

 

The big thing I miss with modelling amps though, like I said above, is the low end not being dynamically as loud as a "real" amp, and having it response weird. When recording that doesn't really translate unless you're doing a certain type of lead sound (like Eric Johnson, Holdsworth, or Hendrix) and it's miced a certain way, so I suppose it shouldn't be an issue - but I know wen it's not there and it makes me play differently. *That's* a big deal. People talk about Eric Johnson and his anal retentiveness; yeah, nobody is going to hear the differences he's talking about. But *he's* probably hearing them, and it it's enough to make him happy that's going to change the way he plays. I *wish* I didn't mind the low end being weird with modelling amps, and the latency (yeah, I know, it's not much and I can't hear it, 15ms=15 feet I know, yadayadayada), because I don't think from an audience standpoint there's a major difference.

 

I would soooooooo love to bring a pair of Line6 combos to a gig instead of the silly heavy tube gear I like, but I don't think I can do that.

 

------------------

New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[Dylan]

Yeah, the Fender Roc Pro/Performer amps are not my favorite by any means, but if I had the choice of using them or a Line 6, I'd opt for the Fender. I play blues/country/rock, so having a bright amp is a plus for my style.

 

I just picked up a tube Fender Hot Rod Deluxe this weekend, and I all I have to say is "wow". This is how an amp "should" sound. Although the reverb is very heavy sounding, the dynamics really shine through on this baby. It's funny, you get used to how solid state or tube emulation is "supposed" to sound, and it becomes acceptable to you. But when you A/B them side by side a tube amp the difference is huge. Still, I'd rather have a lighter solid state or digital modeling amp to bring to my gigs but with the Fender, I know what to expect and can tweak all of my parameters without having to resort to a manual. I guess it all depends on the sound you are looking for, and for me, it is easier to dial up with a nice tube amp or the Tech 21 gear. I still plan on keeping my TM 10 around for recording.

 

What really blew my mind recently was watching Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers live a few weeks ago and seeing Mike Campbell playing through 2 Line 6 amps. It sounded freakin' amazing as expected, but that probably has more to do with Mike than his gear to begin with. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

-Dylan

[GL1]

Just to throw another nut into the coggswell.....

I always run thru a SS amp...... However, my gtr goes thru a tube pre, Dbx unit and then thru a multi-fx processor.... The amp makes my sound louder.... the actuall sound is processed about 3 1/2 feet away. (cord)

 

I like my many sounds.

Best of both worlds http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

 

 

This message has been edited by GL1 on 05-21-2001 at 04:09 PM