Tedster Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 I myself like GP...quite content...I know, I know...but I use the analogy like when your wife says "How's the spaghetti?" and you say "Fine!" and she says "No, no, what could it use?" and you start thinking, "Well, maybe a little more garlic" and before you know it, you're this dissatisfied person. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 Yah Chip on the fluf we actually agree and you have phrased it better than I could. (I'm french for fuck's sake!) LESS FLUFF SMALLER INTRO. I think I get your point about the TAB. Back when I was using it, internet wasn't around. You hear that kids, no internet. But I gotta say it's true the TABS really help getting physically good but didn't help my ear much. I had to make up for that but at least had some great chops. It's funny 'cause now I don't rely on the chops as much as I use my ear now. But hey a little 15-14-12-15-14-12 from Dave Whitehill and co. won't kill anyone and is a lot more reliable than the freebies stuff on internet. Shit I have yet to see one that makes sense.(Granted I haven't spent much time researching the stuff but when students bring it in all confused I can't blame them.) We also need more advertisement objectifying women like those hip-hop mags.(Haha! How's that for a biased opinion Chip? Flame away...) Emile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 Originally posted by Emile: wasn't around. You hear that kids, no internet. But I gotta say it's true the TABS really help getting physically good but didn't help my ear much. It's not just that, it's that the path of discovery isn't there. That's neccessary IMO. I've watched kids get to a point where they can play their favorite song - perfunctory - and they'll say "ok, I can play now", as if that's all there is to music, then they quit playing shortly there after. THEY'RE MISSING THE WHOLE POINT! They're acting like they're learning a new trick on their skateboard; when that's not the point, it's the zen of it that makes one Tony Hawk (or Jimi Hendrix), the defining line. I suppose I'm talking to a wall at this point and I should learn to deal, but... uhg. I had to make up for that but at least had some great chops. It's funny 'cause now I don't rely on the chops as much as I use my ear now. The thing is, I *always* used my ears. I didn't want to read it out of a book - what's the fun in that? Tab could never have followed my whimsy when I started playing: I'd figure one bit out, go to another.. stumble upon something I'd heard before, figure it out from memory.. try something else... Who wants to stop the process to flip open a magazine, or turn the computer on? That's soooo slow and tedious! The process of listening and training your reflexes to make your fingers go where you're *thinking* is paramount IMO. That doesn't happen with tab. But hey a little 15-14-12-15-14-12 from Dave Whitehill and co. won't kill anyone and is a lot more reliable than the freebies stuff on But frick! Everything is so easy these days! It's not like kids are trying to learn how to play some VanHalen phrase, or Yngwie solo! They're bypassing the instinctual process of making music! Ahg... internet. Shit I have yet to see one that makes sense.(Granted I haven't spent much time researching the stuff but when students bring it in all confused I can't blame them.) There's a kid that comes in the music store I teach at on saturdays I call "The Dave Matthews Robot". He's learned a ridiculous amount of Matthew's stuff (I almost said "Dave's" stuff, like everyone is wont to do these days... cool scene Matthews has for himself), all from tab off the Net. HE HAS *no* RHTYHM WHATSOEVER. Probably knows 80% of DM's repertoire; plays it so out of time and stiff it's almost uncanny. He's Damaged Goods. His technique and way of thinking is so wacked out that he'll never recover. All because of tab..... We also need more advertisement objectifying women like those hip-hop mags.(Haha! How's that for a biased opinion Chip? Flame away...) I have no problem with that; it's not like I expect to see the Emtec model walking down the street au naturel anymore than my bedroom studio setup to look like Puig's control room on the cover of _Mix_ (now *that's pornography if ever saw it! ). Magazines.... There is an angle a music magazine could take that would be enormously popular, albeit controversial. _Maxim_ and to a lesser degree _Stuff_ has pulled a pretty clever stunt: they've put Playboy on the shelves of the local supermarket, AND made the articles "readable". Now, I'm not suggesting putting Heather Graham in EQ (feel free to do so, however...), BUT.... What both of these magazines do is sell the illusion of an ultimate-archetype male lifestyle (Cosmo does the exact same thing with women). They do this by doing two things. First, they present the prizes and rewards: slinky sexy women, nice cars, nice techno-accessories (stereos, televisions, etc.). This is enticing. It serves a dual purpose; to get a guy to open the magazine up, BUT once that occurs *to invite introspection*. At which point the guy feels indequate: look at THAT; I should be THAT, apparently other guys are THAT but I'm not THAT exactly... oh no... Which comes to the second part: they provide all sorts of obfuscated ways of in which A Guy can Become the Illusion. Self-help articles. Music magazines in general are essentially the second part of that equation. From a practical, operating standpoint of a magazine it's missing the first part: the Illusion of Possbilities Being Missed. I know guys that don't read the usual magazines, but devour the trade rags, Billboard, etc... *Because* that is the functional equivalent of the Slinky Sexy Model: reading about Joe Average Band from the nearby State who just made it and is Doing It in the Big Corporate Studio and has secured the Big Advance and Tour Support, etc.... Maybe somewhat like the regional news section of _Mix_, except a bit more tawdry and detailed. The point you'll have to make is the chain of connected events from Daily Life to Stardom. That's what Maxim does: look at what you want, the women, the cars, etc.; look at the chain of events and procedures to get there. Right now music magazines only present different levels of "getting there" in isolation, there's no comprehensive concept overall. So, in short - get an operating concept. I think EQ had a good one at first with the Small Project Studio angle, but that's mutated with the definition of "Project Studio" having mutated as well. If the operating principle was "in each issue, show differing "planes of existence": bedroom studio, dedicated home studio, small project studio, large, pro facility, etc. - with a connected theme that allows the reader to project themselves into the progression, I think there would be more readers enticed because of that. GP - it just goes here and there. Again, it needs an overall OS: how does Joe Average place himself into what he's reading in the magazine? If it's just a one way street of presenting information - well, the Internet can do that. You want to sell a *lifestyle*, which comes back around to the stuff I pointed out in previous posts. ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: ]www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 Chip....I liked your novel.....just kidding. To me, TAB's are for beginners to learn the rudiments of their heroes songs, giving them instant self satisfaction and accomplishment. I don't know anybody working who uses them. There might be folks who do, however I don't know them. I learned the Nashville number system years ago out of necessity, but used it as just a guide. If you have ever played with horns or folks following sheet music, you know how frustrating it is in performance...all that page turning etc. Then I realize some folks can't feel the changes and all. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 Originally posted by Chip McDonald: It's not just that, it's that the path of discovery isn't there. That's neccessary IMO. I've watched kids get to a point where they can play their favorite song - perfunctory - and they'll say "ok, I can play now", as if that's all there is to music, then they quit playing shortly there after. THEY'RE MISSING THE WHOLE POINT! They're acting like they're learning a new trick on their skateboard; when that's not the point, it's the zen of it that makes one Tony Hawk (or Jimi Hendrix), the defining line. I suppose I'm talking to a wall at this point and I should learn to deal, but... uhg. No wall here. Love your skate reference. But when you're 15 IT IS like learning a new trick on your skateboard, well at least it was for me: I was starting out. All I cared about was being able to play the riff from "Sweet child o' mine" and be as good as I could because it turned me on. And it is very gratifaying to play stuff from your heroes. But just like most people don't turn out to be Tony Hawk (fuck! truckloads of pro skaters couldn't touch him) a lot of people just don't have it. And those who do, those to whom playing music is a beyond words (and tabs for that matter) experience, will evolve into a more zen like consciousness about playing (to paraphrase you). And that regardless of what path they take. Wether or not you use tab, take lessons, pick stuff off records, learn theory or be self-thought does not define what kind of musician you'll be. They'll find their own path of discovery. If they quit along the process, it's because they were meant to. Or THEY chose to do so. The thing is, I *always* used my ears. I didn't want to read it out of a book - what's the fun in that? Tab could never have followed my whimsy when I started playing: I'd figure one bit out, go to another.. stumble upon something I'd heard before, figure it out from memory.. try something else... Who wants to stop the process to flip open a magazine, or turn the computer on? That's soooo slow and tedious! Well you've just described the way I did it. It's just when I wanted to learn a specific line I could learn it in details (no different than paying 20$ to mister teacher to have him show me!) and slow it down and speed it up with a click (great for time and phrasing BTW). Slow and tedious? To get deep down into things, it's often necessary IMO. The patience required to get involved with detailed repetitive stuff is what sets players with technical facility from the rest. Mind you, great technique isn't necessary to play good music. But if you want to have access to a certain level of proficiency on any instrument, some anal retentiveness is required. That doesn't mean you have to ONLY use that (tab). Anyway it reminds me of a comment I made about a guy that obviously didn't listen to what he was playing and just focused on where the fingers went: " You can hear the TAB in his playing" . That is sad. The process of listening and training your reflexes to make your fingers go where you're *thinking* is paramount IMO. That doesn't happen with tab. Actually it does just that. You learn to control where the fingers go. And to play a physical instrument that's quite useful I think. How that's gonna sound, now that's another story. And there are ways to adress that. And no TAB is not one of them. But frick! Everything is so easy these days! It's not like kids are trying to learn how to play some VanHalen phrase, or Yngwie solo! They're bypassing the instinctual process of making music! Ahg... Good point. Those were the kind of player I was trying to emulate back then. There's a kid that comes in the music store I teach at on saturdays I call "The Dave Matthews Robot". He's learned a ridiculous amount of Matthew's stuff (I almost said "Dave's" stuff, like everyone is wont to do these days... cool scene Matthews has for himself), all from tab off the Net. HE HAS *no* RHTYHM WHATSOEVER. Probably knows 80% of DM's repertoire; plays it so out of time and stiff it's almost uncanny. He's Damaged Goods. His technique and way of thinking is so wacked out that he'll never recover. All because of tab..... All because of himself. Maybe he just doesn't have rythmn. A lot of people don't. Anyway at some point he'll realise his limitations and will seek out other ways. If not, it's OK. We also need more advertisement objectifying women like those hip-hop mags.(Haha! How's that for a biased opinion Chip? Flame away...) I only meant that as a joke, knowing how this is a sensitive subject with some people. I do find your views on the subject interesting and well grounded (no hum there ; ) ). To sum up my views and to prevent people from thinking I'm an earless nerd, all I'm saying is TAB can be helpful and have been for me. They, in no way, should constitute the only form of education. Ears will always have the last word because to quote Paul Gilbert (from the actual pages of GP that I remember) "You'll never go wrong if it's sounds cool". Emile OK back to the subject now, magazines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 Originally posted by strat0124: Chip....I liked your novel.....just kidding. I think I'm getting my new keyboard tweaked feel wise; so I'm typing maybe 75% as fast as average speech. So I'm spending the same few minutes on a reply, but it seems more verbose. Uhg.. Sorry. To me, TAB's are for beginners to learn the rudiments of their heroes songs, giving them instant self satisfaction and accomplishment. That's contrary to developing musical skills, to me. It negates the feedback mechanism that furthers the growth of the player's technique, the desire to get better, and short circuits the feedback path of "I work hard at it and it gets better". I encounter a lot of kids who are Tab Victims. They come in, usually with a lot of bravado. They can play a few songs from tab. They end up not wanting to bother doing *anything* because it requires a modest expenditure of effort beyond reading it from tablature. So, they never develope improvising skills, and they get bad habits from having never tried to do things the right way - and they hit a wall. Not always the case, but I've seen it happen A LOT. it is in performance...all that page turning etc. Then I realize some folks can't feel the changes and all. Playing from the staff verbatim is never a truly musical endeavor in my witnessing of the act.... ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: ]www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodSound Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 About GP: IMO, good on rear reviews, enjoy the articles on "what they play" and how they set up for stage,i.e., I enjoy those things that help me learn *as a new player*. Occasional spot on guitar setup, or helpful hint on signal path, efx, etc. Yes! From my perspective, anything that helps the new (younger) player find a better sound and encourage one to play out. OTOH, featuring artists over and over who "made it" 20 years ago is perplexing to me. Unless you want to rename the mag "vintage guitar player", you need to go out on the road and get in touch with today's players. There are a lot of innovators and great young (and older) players out there who deserve recognition for the music they are making, not because they got a major label deal (which many now avoid, by choice). Editorially, you need to decide if you are a today/tomorrow magazine or a "yesterday" one. Opt for the future, please. >Bob Wood< P.S. Your support of this kind of forum is a big +++. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricknbokker Posted May 18, 2001 Share Posted May 18, 2001 GP strikes again! Just got the July issue. What do we have? BITCHIN' BARGAIN ELECTRICS!!! We Test 13 'LOW COST' Hot Rods! Well then. Lets have a look. Hmm. Not a one listing for under...$599!!! Except...wait a minute...What's this?!! A Route 101 Solimar? Being sold at $294??!!! What the hell is this thing doing in here??!!! This isn't 'Low Cost', or 'Bargain!!. This thing is CHEAP!!! Obviously a major screw up. Heads will roll, I'm sure. Just kidding. But...you get the point, right? Steve P.S.- Amazingly, all of the ads are legible. (no Bartolinni) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrbreez Posted May 19, 2001 Share Posted May 19, 2001 I with that the magazines would archive all their back issues on CD-ROM. O think that it would make a great incentive to offer subscribers only. For example if you subscribe then you would get a CD-ROM on the issues of that year. 'Stocks and Commodities" offer all their back issues on CD-ROM. Each year they add a new one for that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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