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what kind of keyboard do you own and why?


roscopicosound

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[quote=CliftonDoesn't necessarily mean I'm ever going to use those woodwinds or brass or percussion etc., but they're there if I want/need them and they too are of high quality.

 

 

i have to dissagree on the quality issue of acoustic sounds. and not only on yamaha - but also on roland, korg and kurzweil. and i'm not the one who's saying that - but these companies are. to explain: if all these companies sell you a keyboard with sounds in it, and than tell you that for 200$ - 300$ you can get an "expansion card" of orchestral sounds, or ethnic sounds - it's in fact a statement that the sounds on board are not the best they them selves can offer and that they have better sounds - only you have to pay extra to get them. if there's anything deserving the title "shame" - it's the fact the yamaha and rolnad do not include their expansion card sounds as the internal sounds for free. all this and more: if you take roland for example, their "new" expansion cards are in fact collection of sounds from their expansion cards eight years ago. that's what i call shame. that's what i call cheating. and the same thing goes for all the other big companies. they know perfectly well that they can bring you better sounds - but they want to make some money so they give you less quality so that you'd have to buy these cards. eventually - you'll end up paying as much as i did on my nord stage, to get all your expansion. maybe even more.

Vermona Perfourmer mkii, Nord Stage 3 76
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Manufacturers have to provide a variety of stock sounds in a synth to accommodate all types of music.

 

The expansion card provides a wider range of specific sounds i.e. pianos, drums, brass, woodwinds, etc.

 

It is not designed to compensate for a lack of quality sounds in the synth. :cool:

 

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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Manufacturers have to provide a variety of stock sounds in a synth to accommodate all types of music.

 

The expansion card provides a wider range of specific sounds i.e. pianos, drums, brass, woodwinds, etc.

 

It is not designed to compensate for a lack of quality sounds in the synth. :cool:

 

first of all it's not exactly a wide range. these expansion cards are basically comprised of a few basic waves and samples - which are then made into hundreds of patches by using different fx or different eq etc.

if, for example, you take a roland fantom's own strings sound and compare it to the sound on the orchestral expansion card - you'll see the one on the card is much better (yet still far from the best).

 

It is not designed to compensate for a lack of quality sounds in the synth. :cool:

 

my claim is actually that the lack of quality is being done on purpose in order for them to make money from the expansion cards. if they were honest - they'd sell the keyboard already stuffed with all these sounds. why not?

Vermona Perfourmer mkii, Nord Stage 3 76
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they know perfectly well that they can bring you better sounds - but they want to make some money so they give you less quality so that you'd have to buy these cards. eventually - you'll end up paying as much as i did on my nord stage, to get all your expansion. maybe even more.

 

That is IF you really use those sounds alot and you need them to be great. If I were doing some composition stuff, and I didn't have the supercomputer to run Miroslav (or whatever the latest monster library is these days), I'd stoop for the orchestral expansion card. Of course, there is no such card for the S90ES, all of the orchestral sounds (which I reckon are pretty usable) come standard. Most of the expansions are actually modular expansions to the synthesizer.

 

Kurzweil however DID have expansion cards for the PC2 series, but now with the release of the PC3 (and indeed, the PC1se) these expansions are now standard (on the PC3 & PC1se, I mean). In fact, the PC2 has come with the Orchestral Expansion ROM standard for quite a few years now. So I wouldn't say all of the keyboards companies are greedy evil men ;) .

I think for the price Clavia are asking for the Stage, when it lacks all those sounds, and has very modest controller features, is a bit ridiculous.

 

So I say, why spend more and get less?

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Kurzweil however DID have expansion cards for the PC2 series, but now with the release of the PC3 (and indeed, the PC1se) these expansions are now standard (on the PC3 & PC1se, I mean). In fact, the PC2 has come with the Orchestral Expansion ROM standard for quite a few years now.

 

yes, i know. the classic keyboards and the orchestral. but don't forget these are soundcards from more than 4 years ago. there are new sounds around.

 

I think for the price Clavia are asking for the Stage, when it lacks all those sounds, and has very modest controller features, is a bit ridiculous. So I say, why spend more and get less?

 

i thought about it a lot when i went out to spend my money. i knew i just fell for the nord stage's ep sounds (i had a nord electro - and the stage's sounds are better), clav, organ and piano. i tweaked with the synth and i saw this was no PEK but no s90es synth sound either. and i did my math. it is true i MIGHT find myself in a situation where someone will ask me to play an african drum part, or marimba, or alto sax sounds from the keyboard - but that is very unlikely to happen. and i reached a conclusion that I rather consentrate my money on the sounds i like, to get better results - rather than spend a little less for sounds i don't relate to. but that's my math. maybe yours is different. but still you should think about all the times you used your keyboard, and maybe do some kind of list, just to check the percentage of use of each sound you have on your board, and see what are your most used sounds. clavia used the words on this: "the best tool isn't a swiss army knife"

 

about the price - i think the nord stage's price is worth it. you shouldn't think of it in terms of quantity. it's just not a "keyboard with some sounds on it". it's a completetly different instrument. read it's manual. go to a store and try it. i tried the s90es - and i wouldn't let myself write anything about it if i haven't tried it first.

 

in the nord stage, you don't have dozens of rhodes sounds, for example. you have basically three. but three very very very good sampled rhodes models. but, you can teak them on the fly, during a gig, without the need to change patches, and without the need to get into "sub menu" land. and this fun is worth the money IMHO

Vermona Perfourmer mkii, Nord Stage 3 76
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i thought about it a lot when i went out to spend my money. i knew i just fell for the nord stage's ep sounds (i had a nord electro - and the stage's sounds are better), clav, organ and piano. i tweaked with the synth and i saw this was no PEK but no s90es synth sound either

 

Might I ask here, how do the synth sections of the Stage and the S90ES compare?

 

about the price - i think the nord stage's price is worth it. you shouldn't think of it in terms of quantity. it's just not a "keyboard with some sounds on it". it's a completetly different instrument. read it's manual. go to a store and try it. i tried the s90es - and i wouldn't let myself write anything about it if i haven't tried it first.

 

Well that's fair enough, and as such I haven't commented on the Stage itself, as I am yet to demo one, but I'm posing the argument that paying more for less sounds, in a crazy world where keyboard players can and are asked to play brass section parts, choir parts, string parts, tuned percussion parts etc. (not so much african drums or alto sax, or most solo instruments as far as I'm aware), buying a board that lacks such sounds is not a smart move. Perhaps I'd buy both if I had the money...but I most certainly don't.

 

in the nord stage, you don't have dozens of rhodes sounds, for example. you have basically three. but three very very very good sampled rhodes models. but, you can teak them on the fly, during a gig, without the need to change patches, and without the need to get into "sub menu" land. and this fun is worth the money IMHO

 

I've heard this is what makes this board so worth it, the insane-live-tweaking factor. With regards to effects, yes, this is very cool & desirable (especially that tap button for delays!), but personally I'm not big into the on-the-fly tweaking, seeing as you need one hand free to do it. But to be fair, I haven't tried the Stage, maybe even I would like it :D. It's on my to do list.

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[quote=Clifton

Might I ask here, how do the synth sections of the Stage and the S90ES compare?

 

 

well, i don't have any demos of the leads and bass patches, but here's a link to 2 web pages of someone tweaking the stage pad sounds:

http://www.growtogether.com/Nord%20Stage%2088%20NRM.mp3

 

http://www.growtogether.com/Nord%20Stage%2088%201%20ARP.mp3

 

hope you'll enjoy them! (and have some patience. it takes a while until they upload)

Vermona Perfourmer mkii, Nord Stage 3 76
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Just got a Nord Stage 76 (mainly cos of the size and weight, but also cos of the sounds and the fact that I needed a good hammond emulation), and I absolutely love it. I know some people have found the acoustic pianos not to their taste but I find I connect with them much more than the ones on my RD700SX (which I now use mostly for function band gigs, sometimes along with a Korg Triton). Besides these, I've also got a Roland JD800 (awesome for pads and real depth to the sound) and a Novation KS-Rack (much better since the new OS but this doesn't get as much use as it should).
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Interesting discussion folks. Today's keyboards leave their predecessors in the dust. Fact is, they're ALL good. Provided you get in the upper price range of each manufacturer's offerings. Another entry we failed to mention is the GEM Promega. Excellent acoustic piano sound. Roland's RD700SX, the Yamaha S90ES, the Nord Stage, ALL have excellent piano sounds.

 

Nord has a GREAT sounding organ with Leslie SIM. I would put my ES8 up against the Nord Stage Rhodes sounds any day. I've owned 2 Rhodes pianos in my lifetime, and still have my 1979 Suitcase 73 piano. I can get the identical sound out of my ES8. I know, I tweeked a factory patch on my ES8, and it is virtually the same as my Rhodes. The only thing that is missing, is the electro-mechanical vibrations you get from a real Rhodes that you can't get on a electronic action-sampled instrument. But to me, the sound is the most important element. We can all get use to a keyboard action. I have virtually every type of Rhodes sound that ever came out on a genuine Rhodes in my ES8. No doubt that Nord's Rhodes sounds are excellent too. I don't use Clav sounds, so no comment there.

 

I guess the biggest problem I have with the Nord Stage is the price for what it does. If you're in a band, you probably don't need a workstation. The Nord Stage is geared toward the B&B sounds a KB player needs live. My application is different, as a solo act, I need complete sequences to sing and play along with because I have a one man band act. But I can still just play the piano and sing with my ES8 when its called for. Are there "better" acoustic piano's out there? Sure, but what I'm using is so much better than what I use to have, and provided I do my part, it sounds great.

 

Zahush: If you're happy with your Nord Stage, and what it contributes sonically to your act for what you paid, end of story.

 

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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Zahush: If you're happy with your Nord Stage, and what it contributes sonically to your act for what you paid, end of story.

Mike T.

 

i would be completely happy if i had a PEK as well...

arghhh, money money money...... need more of it...

Vermona Perfourmer mkii, Nord Stage 3 76
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Quote by Zahush:

--------------------------------

i would be completely happy if i had a PEK as well...

arghhh, money money money...... need more of it...

--------------------------------

That is the ONE keyboard that I REALLY want. I own a number of vintage synths, but the PEK does things none of them can do, in a performance synth. A modular synth doesn't make sense for me, the equipment I buy these days are "to go". The PEK would add sounds to my sonic palette that I just cant do on one KB now. I can't afford it either. It's not that it's "overpriced" I just don't make enough $$$.

 

 

Mike T.

 

 

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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Quote by Zahush:

--------------------------------

i would be completely happy if i had a PEK as well...

arghhh, money money money...... need more of it...

--------------------------------

That is the ONE keyboard that I REALLY want. I own a number of vintage synths, but the PEK does things none of them can do, in a performance synth. A modular synth doesn't make sense for me, the equipment I buy these days are "to go". The PEK would add sounds to my sonic palette that I just cant do on one KB now. I can't afford it either. It's not that it's "overpriced" I just don't make enough $$$.

 

 

Mike T.

 

 

i have the money - but my wife is giving me a hard time. just recently bought the nord stage, and the wife sais that's my keyboard for the few next years. i can't explain to her why is it important for me to have these kind of sounds in addition to the stage. as far as she cares - all keyboards are the same. and all the money we make should go for savings to buy an appartement in a few years. so unless i win the lottery - no PEK....

Vermona Perfourmer mkii, Nord Stage 3 76
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Zahush:

 

That's worse than not having the money at all.

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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Got a Kurzweil K2500XS and a Roland JV-1000. The Roland was my first "real" keyboard(other than a Lowry organ ;), before that it was all guitars.

 

I don't know why I hold on to the Roland...all I use it for is a sound source, and even then I'm only using sounds from the Vintage Synth expansion card, and very few of them at that!

 

I love the Kurzweil! 88 weighted keys, VAST, 16-track sequencer, ability to play samples, etc. Now if they would only come out with the 3000 or whatever it will be called ;)

 

Darkon the Incandescent

http://www.billheins.com/

 

 

 

Hail Vibrania!

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Zahush:

 

That's worse than not having the money at all.

 

Mike T.

 

i know. but i guess that when you start a family, your priorities change and there are things more important than my personal craving for this keyboard or that.

 

i suppose it's gonna get a lot worse when we'll have a first baby. then my dilemas won't be PER vs MED, but keyboards at large vs dippers...

Vermona Perfourmer mkii, Nord Stage 3 76
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'what kind of keyboard do you own and why?'

 

Why first. I'm the 'release velocity' guy.

The ability to use release velocity in a meaningful way was a key factor in my decision to purchase these boards:

 

Kurzweil K2600

Alesis Andromeda, QS6.2, QS8.2, Ion, Micron, and Fusion

Virus C Keyboard

Clavia G2.

 

My modules that can respond to RV properly are the QSR, Waldorf Q rack, Virus TI desktop, and Kurzweil PC2R.

 

I still have a few pieces that can't respond, or don't respond correctly, including a Yamaha S80, EX5R, Roland XV5080.

Of these, I'll probably only keep the EX5R because of its unique capabilities, and any pieces I acquire in the future will be RV capable.

 

 

I'm definitely in a 'downsizing' mood. I'd like to replace most of the boards with one 88 key that combines the best features of what I'm using now, but I'm not sure it's available yet.

 

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My live rig has mutated quite a bit over the years. Here is what I'm using at the moment...

 

In front of me is a K2600XS, with a Yamaha Motif ES 6 above it. To the right (in an "L") is a Yamaha DX7, driving a Voce V5. I run the whole thing in stereo, using a Yamaha EMX5000-20 driving a pair of TurboSound floor monitors (which are fantastic - I highly recommend them). I run an auxilary feed from the Yamaha mixer to a second Kustom powered mixer, which drives an MTI Rotophaser, which is an older rotating horn I use for the V5. I mic the Rotophaser and send it, along with a feed of the entire mess from the Yamaha, to the house system. I run my vocal mic into a small Peavey mixer that sits on the K2600XS. I send one feed to the house system and a second feed to a JBL EON10G2, wich serves as my vocal monitor. This allows me to control the tone and volume of my vocal monitor very easily from where I stand.

 

Then there's the bass rig: I keep it very simple - I play a Fender American Jazz (flat wounds) through a Kustom Groove 15C combo amp (which I love).

 

So there you have it. :)

Reality is like the sun - you can block it out for a time but it ain't goin' away...
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im scoring films, theatre plays, tv stuff, jingles. also do some sound design and audio post work.

 

for straight scoring its large orch, piano and ehtnic libs. but when i'm using synthesis, like writing "cinematic" electronica, lounge or ambient, it's mostly hardware, cept for drums, beatboxes, ethic etc. some of the stuff i use the most at the moment:

 

Andromeda - main board. most tracks get the A6 pad. also i use it for complex pads, bpf sweeps, running its int step seq for bass and analog perc patterns, deep bass, leads and fx design in general. advantage over sfx lib is - u get to automate parameters to "follow" whats on screen.

 

Jupiter 8 - perky bass lines (arp.), filter sweeps, PWM polysynth, crossmod n sync. its faster, cleaner and brighter than A6 so they complement each other well. whenever some genre of electronica, minimal, electro etc is to be made, i first set some ballpark beat and reach for this beast. very inspiring.

 

Eminent Solina - true classic. from unmistakable sprinkle on top of some indie guitar trk i did (a la cure), to french hous e, lounge hi lines (swept by moog phaser) etc. sometimes it actually blends better with rest of orch than sampled violins, depending on the feel im after.

 

FS1R - 80% of the time i only this husky vox pad ive made. it became my trademark sound. also love morphing vox<>synth leads. so usually it works pad or contrapunctal line in heavy background.

 

JD990 - overused it in the past. now i only have a set of ambient sounds. metallic HF sprinkles, moving complex pads or clangorous something..

 

Waldorf XT and microwave1 - both get ocasional fx pad, cinematic hitpoint etc.. often with env to wavetable sweep. thats what they do best. i love xt doin an organic, "cooking" bed, with high resonance, run thru space echo. microwave has much wider application as it got moresoul, can hold better in a dense mix. punchy arpeggios, wave sweeps, metal basses - really is the closest to an affordable PPG you can find.

 

OB-XA - spacey HF pads, voxy reso lead.. 12dB sweeps are out of this world.. and sometimes classic dblsaw polysynth fattening the harmony section. angriest synth alive. does not blend that well with digitals - likes real instruments, and other analogs company better.

 

SH-2 - thick electronic bass (sub+1vco), for dance/tech tracks. soft porta leads (dbl saw) for retro lounge electro etc.

 

few keyboards, are out of order at this moment: Rhodes - about to order new hammer tips and few low tines.. out of action since summer. Prophet rev2 - getting midi retrofitted. OBX - just got it, awaiting restoration.. new trimmers, capacitors. creamiest warmest poly.

http://www.babic.com - music for film/theatre, audio-post
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I own - or will in a few weeks - the Yamaha Motif XS7. I am upgrading from a 9 or is it 7 year old Casio CTK-651. I have been following keyboards for at least five years but never made the purchse decision. I think the XS7 will be huge leaps forward from the previous versions of the Motif line.
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Zahush: If you're happy with your Nord Stage, and what it contributes sonically to your act for what you paid, end of story.

Mike T.

 

i would be completely happy if i had a PEK as well...

arghhh, money money money...... need more of it...

 

Hehe, y'know, you could buy an S90ES and a PE Rack for the price of a Nord Stage ;-)

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Zahush: If you're happy with your Nord Stage, and what it contributes sonically to your act for what you paid, end of story.

Mike T.

 

i would be completely happy if i had a PEK as well...

arghhh, money money money...... need more of it...

 

Hehe, y'know, you could buy an S90ES and a PE Rack for the price of a Nord Stage ;-)

 

but then i won't be happy with either of them. i won't be happy with the s90es as far as it comes to rhodes, hammond, clavis, wurlies etc. i know. i tested it and i prefer the nord stage sound. but that's just me...

and to get a PER instead of a PEK is something i won't be satisfied with as well. i like tweakability, as you may have guessed (from the fact i like the nord). i'd go for a MEK and give up polyphony just for the fun of tweaking live. i have to admit that i heard some MEK sounds which i couldn't believe were mono sounds at first. a single voice alone is so much, so fat and complex - i might be better with the MEK after all. besides, i don't think i'll need more for the music i'm playing (funk, reggae and raggamuffin. and some britpop on another band).

Vermona Perfourmer mkii, Nord Stage 3 76
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