Nawledge Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I dunno but it looks like he's doing flipflops :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNC Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I'm not sure what exactly you're basing this on, but Colin Powell beleives in using force only when the other options have failed. He believes that the other options with dealing with Iraq have failed, so he thinks force should be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nawledge Posted February 10, 2003 Author Share Posted February 10, 2003 just seems like they are more intrested in article 1441, than an eventual peaceful resolution, I believe that if Saddam is more than a threat then he should be stomped, but he is only a threat and everything but murder should be committed at this time. everyday that he hasn't launched an attack is a day that the international community can apply another penalty until there are none left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOT Bolt Rifles Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 This may sound a bit Machiavellian, but I think this "seeing the light" on Powell's part was choreographed from the beginning. "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams "I am a senior member, and thereby entilted to all the privileges and rights accorded said status" -- NBR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNC Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Well, alot of people seem to skip over what the resolution actually says, and go hunting for "smoking guns". Powell beleives that the Iraqi govt has not willing proven their dissarmament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realtrance Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 All these years, paper after paper.... page after page... no-one gave a DAMN about articles. All my grading, commentary, never helped. And now this. It's Powell's position that I find most persuasive there's something going on there, as I think of the four-headed hydra currently raging in the executive branch of our country, he's the most reliable and principled. rt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotown Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Realtrance, I am in agreement with you on this. Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I never thought I'd see the day when the ex-military guy is more of a pacifist then the elected officials. Something stinks. "That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realtrance Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 That's actually not that unusual; people who really understand war are usually the last ones to want to go there. rt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Maybe Harry Belafonte was right. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnb Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Powell knew the job was dangerous when he took it. Flip-flopping had to be in the job description. I still think that he was the real life model for that 4 star general (Paul Winfield's character) in the movie "Mars Attacks". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViLo Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Nawledge: [b]just seems like they are more intrested in article 1441, than an eventual peaceful resolution, I believe that if Saddam is more than a threat then he should be stomped, but he is only a threat and everything but murder should be committed at this time. everyday that he hasn't launched an attack is a day that the international community can apply another penalty until there are none left.[/b][/quote]Maybe we need to wait until Sadam & Osama get together and atack the US and kill some more innocent people, maybe we need to wait until Sadam & Osama bomb all the tall buildings in Dallas, Houston L.A. and some more in New York and other cities, maybe then we will be willing to open our eyes. But maybe then we will blame our FBI and others for not being alert! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: My 2 Pesos[pesos are worthless] Jesus Is Coming, Make Music, Get Ready! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miroslav Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I think you guys will never have anything nice to say about anyone in the current administration. :D Sorta' the way I felt about the 8 years with Slick Willy and his bunch of spin masters. :p miroslav - miroslavmusic.com "Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViLo Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by miroslav: [b]I think you guys will never have anything nice to say about anyone in the current administration. Sorta' the way I felt about the 8 years with Slick Willy and his bunch of spin masters.[/b][/quote]I don't believe in killing people, but before they kill me, let Bush do the work, is a dirty job, but, somebody has to do it! I like Bush! Oppsssss! Fire! Fire! FIre! Jesus Is Coming, Make Music, Get Ready! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViLo Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by ViLo: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Nawledge: [b]just seems like they are more intrested in article 1441, than an eventual peaceful resolution, I believe that if Saddam is more than a threat then he should be stomped, but he is only a threat and everything but murder should be committed at this time. everyday that he hasn't launched an attack is a day that the international community can apply another penalty until there are none left.[/b][/quote]Maybe we need to wait until Sadam & Osama get together and atack the US and kill some more innocent people, maybe we need to wait until Sadam & Osama bomb all the tall buildings in Dallas, Houston L.A. and some more in New York and other cities, maybe then we will be willing to open our eyes. But maybe then we will blame our FBI and others for not being alert! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: My 2 Pesos[pesos are worthless][/b][/quote]What? What did I do?? :p :p Jesus Is Coming, Make Music, Get Ready! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 [quote] This may sound a bit Machiavellian, but I think this "seeing the light" on Powell's part was choreographed from the beginning. [/quote]Choreographed by General Rove . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nawledge Posted February 10, 2003 Author Share Posted February 10, 2003 Vilo your post sounds like it was made out of fear i'm afraid of what the future brings too, but if you believe in what america is suppose to stand for, then you know that you can't go killing people just because you know that they want to kill you, that is just regarding Saddam himself, but we are going to kill alot of other innocent people too, just because we know Saddam is evil. that makes no sense. and if that is how you feel, then why don't you round up the all kkk and kill them too, they are not extremist muslims but have the same inner ideology, or what about the black israelites, I don't know what you look like but if it's not like them then they have an ass kicking planned for you. you can't destroy people because they are evil, its'not even against the law to be evil, only to committ and evil act. what about kim jong, he's iLL,(pun). this is fundemental. you can't kill someone because you know they are evil and you think that they will blow you up in 10years. and miroslav hates the fact that bill clinton got laid so much that he's missing the whole point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miroslav Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Nawledge: and miroslav hates the fact that bill clinton got laid so much that he's missing the whole point.[/quote]You are right...Clinton sure missed the whole point of being President.! :p Best he could do as the President, was get White House staffers to have sex with him. I guess you think that was really cool...a real noble way for him to exercise his Presidential power. If he had paid a little more attention to Bin Laden and terrorists after the first WTC bombing 9/11 might not have ever happened. But he was to busy with Monica. miroslav - miroslavmusic.com "Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 At least we know where his head was at? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_dont_fret Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I think they're all stupid. They are giving Saddam only half chances...and the thing where he just promised to let us use U-2 spy planes should be proof enough that he has nothing. I could be wrong, I know this, but I really don't think he'd say that it was alright if he was really hiding something...I know I wouldn't approve of it. Something needs to be done, yes, and that is going over there, actually sitting down and talking to Saddam, and settle things peacefully. And then, we can import all the oil we need for the next few decades legally. Not this stupid, blow up everything way Bush wants to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Saddam is 68.....contain the bastard and let him go dust to dust. Did anybody snap to the fact that Colon (mispelled intentionally) pronounced Saddam exactly like Bush Sr? Wonder whos pulling the strings? Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNC Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Oh gosh, they said the same word the same way... :rolleyes: I hope you were joking. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViLo Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Nawledge: [b]Vilo your post sounds like it was made out of fear i'm afraid of what the future brings too, but if you believe in what america is suppose to stand for, then you know that you can't go killing people just because you know that they want to kill you, that is just regarding Saddam himself, but we are going to kill alot of other innocent people too, just because we know Saddam is evil. that makes no sense. and if that is how you feel, then why don't you round up the all kkk and kill them too, they are not extremist muslims but have the same inner ideology, or what about the black israelites, I don't know what you look like but if it's not like them then they have an ass kicking planned for you. you can't destroy people because they are evil, its'not even against the law to be evil, only to committ and evil act. what about kim jong, he's iLL,(pun). this is fundemental. you can't kill someone because you know they are evil and you think that they will blow you up in 10years. and miroslav hates the fact that bill clinton got laid so much that he's missing the whole point.[/b][/quote]You know, I'm not afraid I believe that when my time comes with or with out war I'm ready. Is not about killing Sadam because we think he's going to kill us, is about a sick man tha hates you an I as americans, and will not hesitate to do whatever is in his power to kill us.[unless you are not American] What I said was, "Are we going to wait until something happens to more innocent people" You should know, if Sadam gets a chance to kill americans he will, with out hesitation, and here you are defending him :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ! And of course you are not the only one! Jesus Is Coming, Make Music, Get Ready! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sign Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Sadam has killed his own people without any hesitation and he still does, because he's a sick person, like Hitler was a sick person, and Goering and...and... But war, come on, this isn't a James Bond movie. Have you guys noticed all those documentaries about WW2? About Pearl Harbour? Hiroshima/Nagasaki? War is and will never be a solution. Take a look at what happened in WW1 and WW2. Do we really want another big war? And for what? To get rid of a sick asshole? I can remember very good what my father used to say (he was a soldier in WW2), nothing, he never spoke about it, not a single word. The man was in Rotterdam when it was bombed and I guess it was to horrible, so he pushed it in the back of his mind. How many times must a man look up.............the answer is blowing in the wind. Peace! The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-brm Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 (fat fingers) It's OK to tempt fate. Just don't drop your drawers and moon her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-brm Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by sign: [b]Sadam has killed his own people without any hesitation and he still does, because he's a sick person, like Hitler was a sick person, and Goering and...and... But war, come on, this isn't a James Bond movie. Have you guys noticed all those documentaries about WW2? About Pearl Harbour? Hiroshima/Nagasaki? War is and will never be a solution. Take a look at what happened in WW1 and WW2. Do we really want another big war? And for what? To get rid of a sick asshole? I can remember very good what my father used to say (he was a soldier in WW2), nothing, he never spoke about it, not a single word. The man was in Rotterdam when it was bombed and I guess it was to horrible, so he pushed it in the back of his mind. How many times must a man look up.............the answer is blowing in the wind. Peace![/b][/quote]Anybody with family from the "Old Europe" (fuck you Donald Rumsfeld) had to take that as a matter of course. Uniformed people could be serving anywhere but their homes and families were still being bombed at some time or another if they lived in a major city. That's just the way it was and our generation hasn't been allowed to forget it, gratefully. I've thought about this for years, and I put some of the cavalier attitude by civilians in the U.S. to this: [img]http://members.rogers.com/blackrivermedia/killed.gif[/img] The * was footnoted that the number was virtually none. On the continental U.S., I think it was six civilians that were killed in the Pacific Northwest by one of those Japanese bomb balloons. It is a well known incident for just that reason. For the last century, war was something conducted offshore. That's with sincere respect to U.S. service people. But until you've had total war come to home, it's not the same experience as a nation. It's OK to tempt fate. Just don't drop your drawers and moon her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViLo Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Bin Laden Tape Urges Iraqi Suicide Bombs 6 minutes ago DUBAI, United Arab Emirates - An audio tape purported to carry the voice of Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) called on Iraqis to carry out suicide attacks against Americans and defend themselves against a U.S. attack. AP Photo The speaker in the tape, broadcast Tuesday on the Al-Jazeera Arab satellite station, described al-Qaida fighters in Afghanistan (news - web sites) withstanding heavy U.S. bombardment by hiding in trenches. "With all the might of the enemy, they were unable to defeat us and take over that position. ... We hope that our brothers in Iraq will do the same as we did," said the voice, purported to be bin Laden's. The speaker said the United States was waging a psychological war against Iraq and said Iraqis should expect massive bombardment from the air. "We stress the importance of suicide bombings against the enemy, these attacks that have scared Americans and Israelis like never before," the speaker said. Before the broacast, Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) told a Senate panel Tuesday that he had read a transcript of the statement and that it shows why the world needs to be concerned about Iraqi ties to terrorism. Powell said that on the tape, "bin Laden or who we believe to be bin Laden" ... "once again speaks to the people of Iraq and talks about their struggle and how he is in partnership with Iraq." He urged the Iraqis to stay strong against a U.S. attack and blunt the force of a U.S. aerial assault by "digging large numbers of trenches and camouflaging them." He also advised the Iraqis to draw the Americans into combat in the cities "because they will have big casualties." The last Bin Laden tape aired on Nov. 12 on Al-Jazeera. Bin Laden, in the statement, promised new terrorist attacks. Bin Laden urged Muslims not to cooperate with the United States against Iraq, criticizing Arab governments who support the U.S. in its efforts to rid Iraq of its alleged weapons of mass destruction. "Anyone who helps America, from the Iraqi hypocrites (opposition) or Arab rulers ... whoever fights with them or offers them bases or administrative assistance, or any kind of support or help, even if only with words, to kill Muslims in Iraq, should know that he is an apostate." Yasser Thabet, a broadcast editor at Al-Jazeera, said the tape appears to be authentic because the television station got it through the same means as previous bin Laden statements. He did not elaborate. "When you listen to the tape, you can tell it's Osama bin Laden's voice," Thabet said. Jesus Is Coming, Make Music, Get Ready! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiobotica Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 What's really sad is Powell is falling in line with people who make policy, then ask the intelligence services to find data to back the policy. http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_10-2-2003_pg4_1 Both MI-6 and CIA analysts are warning that putting Hussein's back to the wall makes it far MORE likely we'll get more terrorism in return. And on top of that, Powell used plagiarized open source papers and presented them to the UN as coming from intelligence sources. We have intelligence services for a reason, to investigate, do threat assessment and recommend high win probability courses of action. When GW tells the CIA to only bring him intel that backs his prejudices, he fails as president. And for a seasoned campaigner like Powell to follow along with this sort of self inflicted blindness is a disgrace to his uniform. Yours in Music, Ben Fury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nawledge Posted February 12, 2003 Author Share Posted February 12, 2003 :thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 ViLo, Osama bin Laden's goal is to unite the Arab world against the West. Historically, luckily for the West, the Arab world has been anything but united. I seriously doubt that Iraq and Al Qaeda have had anything to do with each other - they are basically ideologically opposed. Iraq is a secular state, for example, while Al Qaeda bills itself as a fanatically religious organization. There are many similarly warring factions within the Arab world. HOWEVER... bin Laden wants the West to believe that Arab Muslims are united in their views and goals. They are not. But if the U.S. declares war on Iraq, we just might give them a reason to be. We do NOT want that. Really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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