Workstation or what...?!

[Bubba Bazooka]

I'm sure people have asked similar questions but I've been surfing around for hours and can't seem to find anything really useful..

From the beginning: I've been using a friends Motif ES8 for about a year now to compose complete songs on a computer. On the computer I'm using Cubase and that's it.

Now I have to buy my own synth and I don't have enough money to afford something like a ES8.

What my questions are:

-Do I need a Workstation or would a plain synth be sufficient (since I practicly only use the computer for the composing and the Motif only for sounds)?

-Should I change that habbit? Is there a better or easier way to compose (like a better combination of workstation and PC)?

-Do I lose a lot of possibilities by only using a synth and PC?

-Do you have any suggestions for specific models that are less expensive but have awesome voices like the ES8?

-Would it be cheaper buying a synth and hooking up for example a Motif Rack?

-Would you recommend a Yamaha MO6 (cause it looks pretty cool)?

-Do normal synths have multiple tracks in them so I can save different voices to the tracks in Cubase? Example: GND PIANO -> Cubase MidiTrack 1;

Background STR -> Cubase MidiTrack 2;

and so on....

 

Budget is +/- 1000 Dollars

 

I do practically everything with the Motif, from drums to whatever else, but I edit the Midi Files with Cubase.

Music styles: chillout, electronica and a bit of goa. I also do a share of Hip hop beats (but always full tracks with cuts and stuff in Cubase..) and I love complicated beats, which requires a lot of sounds. I've come to like natural sounds mixed with electronic voices. I also mix a lot of vocals with the tracks I make.

 

I'm kinda lost and I hope I'm not asking to much.

Thanks in advance, BB

[Bill H.]

There's nothing wrong with your current workflow if you're comfortable with it. So... sticking with Yamaha here, since you like it's sounds and are probably also getting familiar with them...

 

One of the seldon mentioned things cut from the MotifES when they made the MO is the number of effects blocks, which were reduced from 8 to three. So you can only put different effects on three tracks with a MO... is this important to you?

 

Is the 88 keyboard important to you? If you bought the ES Rack used and then a 61 synth action controller keyboard, if you're patient you could conceivably pull it off for your target price of $1000. With a M-Audio 88 controller (or is CME still around anyone?) maybe $1100-1200.

 

Or maybe a used S90. Not the ES Motif, but the previous generation Motif with 88s and around $1200. No sequencer or sampling on it, but you don't use them, do you?

[resigned]

Unless you need features that are specific to the workstation or other hardware you are considering, or are considering live performance, there is little need for a workstation or synth when working with a computer for composing. Assuming you already have the computer then your budget could easily accomodate a program like Reason and a good controller/interface such as a Novation X-Station or one of the CME controllers as mentioned by Bill H. Or, if you like working with CuBase then there are an unlimited number of good VST synths that can be used.

[ProfD]

Bill H and The Pro have both provided excellent advice.

 

I know quite a few cats who are raving about Reason 3.0 especially for your styles of music.

 

Get a MIDI controller in the # of keys you want to use and check out Reason and other VSTs.

 

Since you are familiar with Cubase, no need for a synth workstation.

[Clavinovaguyusa]

If you are looking at doing most of your work on a keyboard, and retaining the ability to interface via USB or midi, the Roland Juno-G is also in the $1000 range.

[Bubba Bazooka]

Thanks!

@Bill H: Yeah I do use a multitimbral sequencer, so I don't think the S90 would meet standards.

No, I don't need 88 keys, nor weighted keys and I think I could manage with only 3 effekt blocks(I never really used them but thinking back I should have more). Sounds like a big loss though.

@the Pro: I tried working with Reason for a while. And I worked with Fruity Loops for a about 3 Years before I switched to ES8 + Cubase

What I didn't like about Reason and FL is that the sounds just don't have the same punch. Especially Bass and Drumkits.

The other thing is, that you have to buy all the VST Synths and Plugins to get some decent sounds..

Besides that, I have no idea how to work with a Controller and Reason together. Would be cool is you could tell me a little bit, cause maybe it's time to change my style alltogether.

 

D'you guys think I can get cool enough sounds as VSTs?

The other synth I've got my eye on is the Korg TR61. Looks pretty good and isn't a workstation but has a sequencer and stuff. Any advice on that?

 

Cheers BB

[Bubba Bazooka]

Let me correct that: the Korg TR61 IS a Workstation and is about in the same price range as the MO6.

[Bubba Bazooka]

Let me correct that: the Korg TR61 IS a Workstation and is about in the same price range as the MO6.

[resigned]

Originally posted by Bubba Bazooka:

What I didn't like about Reason and FL is that the sounds just don't have the same punch. Especially Bass and Drumkits.

The other thing is, that you have to buy all the VST Synths and Plugins to get some decent sounds..

Besides that, I have no idea how to work with a Controller and Reason together. Would be cool is you could tell me a little bit, cause maybe it's time to change my style alltogether.

 

Cheers BB

Don't know how long it has been since you worked with Reason but version 3 is a big improvement over previous versions because of the Combinator, which combines sounds/effects/mastering devices as single patches to create huge sounds, and the way that many current brands of controllers are instantly recognized and mapped to Reason's devices. When I hookup my Novation X-Station it is recognized by Reason and setup/use is simple (much easier than using a Motif). Plus, Reason has matured and there are vast genre-specific libraries of sounds available both free from Propellerhead and for purchase. You might like the drum and bass Refill libraries from third party companies such as Audio Warrior .

 

I used to use a Motif ES with Reason and eventually found that the Motif was superfluous.

One thing that I've found with Reason and other VST's such as Colossus is that they have a much better signal-to-noise ratio than the Motif... this fact isn't discussed as much as it should be. Even if you go to the trouble of installing mLan, the Motif ES is a very noisy studio synth whereas Reason and VST's in general have a much lower noise floor which makes recordings come out a lot cleaner.

 

At any rate, you can download a free demo of Reason from Propellerhead and/or check out lots of it's features and sounds here.

[Mr. Nightime]

I've had a couple workstations in the past (Korg M1, and my current Korg N364). I do all my recording using my computer, and really have no use for the internal sequencer on the Korg. The only time I ever use it is as a playback if I'm doing a power single or duo gig, which I haven't done in a couple years. So, unless you're planning to use your recordings in a live situation, there's really no reason for the extra expense of a workstation. Many models of synths out there today have the same sounds as their corresponding workstation, without the sequencer, and without the inflated price.

 

In fact, I'm getting to the point where I use VSTs for my recording, and leave the synth for live work only. Like The Pro said, once you get enough quality VSTs, the synth can be superfluous.

[Bubba Bazooka]

Ok, you guys are doing a good job at changing my mind. No live situations so the Workstation is out of the race.

So now Im to the point where I decide between Controller/VST or Synth/Cubase. But if you say the sounds I can get out of VSTs are at least as good and professional (!!!) as a cool synth or Motif, that sounds like the better solution. VSTs sounds like theyre better to update, I can also chose my own sounds and so on.. Is this assumption true?

If I purchase Reason will I have a wide range of cool sounds in there already?

Do I have to download every single drumset and organ and lead as a separate VST-instrument?

if I still desire the familiar Motif sounds, could I still hook up the Motif Rack or any other kind of Rack?

 

One very negative thing I read about VSTs ist that the sounds often come delayed from the actual pressing of the keys. Dont know if that really is a common problem...??

 

As an example: If Im working with Reason and Cubase combined, can make a drum pattern or any other kind of pattern with Reason, then open it automatically with Cubase, and still edit it in the piano roll?

Or does Reason have the piano roll and sequencer built in, so I can get rid of Cubase?

 

Damn its hard to get the right thing...

 

BB

[resigned]

Last post on this topic since your questions can be answered now by the Propellerhead website and the owner's manual for Reason, and by trying the latest free demo.

 

*Reason comes with lots of sounds and many more are available free from Propellerhead's website. Google for Reason Refills if you need more.

 

* You cannot "open" Reason tracks within CuBase. Reason uses a protocol called ReWire for syncing to CuBase and other sequencers. Reason does not record audio and is not VST compatible (yet) so the main reason you would use CuBase and Reason together is to add audio or VST instruments to your Reason tracks. You would edit Reason tracks with the piano roll editor in Reason and Cubase tracks with the editor is Cubase while syncing the two programs to run together with ReWire.

 

* Yes you can use external sound modules with Reason or Cubase.

 

* The "delay" you mentioned is called latency and it is not a problem as long as you have a good computer and audio/MIDI interface. There are many options in this area and you'll have to research what's right for you, your computer and your budget.

 

Good luck!

[ProfD]

Originally posted by Bubba Bazooka:

So now Im to the point where I decide between Controller/VST or Synth/Cubase.

I would use a synth as a controller simply because it is a self-contained sound source too.

 

Get all 3 (synth controller, Reason and Cubase) and go to work.

 

Damn its hard to get the right thing...

By asking questions, you have overcome at least one hurdle.

[dementedchord]

a quick comment... which cubase are you useing??? C4 for instance gives you the motif sound sets free... though you'll have to do some of the setup your self.. also includes a couple other synths... and though i've never used it myself so cant say how well it works but it is rewire capable as i understand it... from the manual...

Introduction

ReWire and ReWire2 are special protocols for streaming

audio between two computer applications. Developed by

Propellerhead Software and Steinberg, ReWire provides

the following possibilities and features:

Real-time streaming of up to 64 separate audio channels

(256 with ReWire2), at full bandwidth, from the synthesizer

application into the mixer application.

In this case, the mixer application is of course Cubase. An example of a

synthesizer application is Propellerhead Softwares Reason.

Automatic, sample accurate synchronization between

the audio in the two programs.

The possibility to have the two programs share one audio

card and take advantage of multiple outputs on that

card.

Linked transport controls that allow you to play, rewind

etc., either from Cubase or from the synthesizer application

(provided it has some kind of transport functionality).

Automatic audio mixing functions of separate channels

as required.

In the case of Reason for example, this allows you to have separate mixer

channels for the different devices.

Additionally, ReWire2 offers the possibility to route MIDI

tracks in Cubase to the other application, for full MIDI control.

For each ReWire2 compatible device, a number of extra MIDI outputs

will be made available in Cubase. In the case of Reason, this allows you

to route different MIDI tracks in Cubase to different devices in Reason,

having Cubase serve as main MIDI sequencer.

The overall load on your system is much reduced compared

to when using the programs together in the conventional

way.

[Bubba Bazooka]

You guys are great..

which cubase are you useing??? C4 for instance gives you the motif sound sets free...

Yeah I figured that out just today. I'm using SX3, and since Yamaha hadn't bought Steinberg yet, they don't feature it... Anyways, I've got a cracked version so I can't update and the new Cubase 4 costs a f***in mint.

I think that's a good idea to use all three (synth/cubase/reason). I'm just gonna have to buy a separate interface.

So now I've been looking around for synth models in my price range and filtered down to these. For some reason I feel extremely attracted to the electronic Korg sounds: Any Opinions?

 

Korg X50

Korg Radias

Roland Juno-G

 

The way I see it Yamaha doesn't produce any cheaper Synths than the MOs. So I guess a MO6 would be an option too.

 

Is the Korg Radias really worth it's price?

[Bubba Bazooka]

I think I'm gonna get the X50 unless 10 people tell me how awful it is...