Outlander Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 I'm brand new to trying to learn to play the keyboard. Is there a proper technique to use, or should i just finger the notes whatever way feels the easiest? any good books to teach the right and left hand techniques? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Each curled finger owns a key. http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/doremifasoft/HandPosition.jpg Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 850 of Harry's solo piano arrangements of standards and jazz tutorials at https://www.patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmp Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 Folks who charge by the half hour would probably want to expand on that quite a bit. I don't, so I'll just add two words. relax Hanon --wmp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlander Posted December 25, 2006 Author Share Posted December 25, 2006 Thanks for that:) from what i've read, thumb=1 index=2 and so on. when doing scales with the right hand should i go to ring finger then bring thumb underneath? what i'm really having trouble with is the left hand tho. i play bass guitar, so starting over on another instrument which i suck hard at is frustrating, but i'll try and stick with it cause i sucked at bass for a while as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzed Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 when doing scales with the right hand should i go to ring finger then bring thumb underneath?It depends on what scale you're playing. Is there a proper technique to use, or should i just finger the notes whatever way feels the easiest?There is definitely proper technique you need, and you can end up with bad habits that are difficult to lose if you don't learn it early. The basic advice you'll recieve here is to find a good teacher. At least for the beginning (better for longer), so your position and posture is correct from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 Outlander, you'll really be better off taking a few lessons with someone who can show you in real time how to play using the least amount of effort. Correct technique is not intuitive - it has to be shown. I could give you a lot of useful information but you could also simply do a search and save me the time of typing. Study with someone so you don't start out with bad habits. A good rule of thumb - if your top forearm muscles tense up or there's pain, you're using the wrong set of muscles. When you play using the correct set of muscles, someone will be able to flick your hand\wrist\arm away from the keyboard in one swift motion. If you arm hand remains locked to the keyboard you're using the wrong set of muscles. There's _much_ more to technique than this ... and that's why you should study with someone. No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dementedchord Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 do yourself a favor and take at least some lessons... even if you can only afford once a mon for say 6 mons... prevention is the best medicine... and preventing pain/fatigue is way easier than trying to fix it... "style is determined not by what you can play but what you cant...." dave brubeck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlander Posted December 25, 2006 Author Share Posted December 25, 2006 Thanks for the help folks, i'm gonna look into getting a teacher to show me the basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlander Posted December 25, 2006 Author Share Posted December 25, 2006 Thanks for the help folks, i'm gonna look into getting a teacher to show me the basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delirium Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 since finding a good teacher is a big problem, I'd suggest some good book first(such with many good reviews - same is hard with a teacher ) about piano technique like this for innstance: piano craft and then if you still in need get a teacher, when you have already some reference and idea what to expect. ♫♫♫ motif XS6, RD700GX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydgwapu Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 you can self-study if you're really interested... that's what I'm doing...Ü Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsaras Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 My scale and arpeggio playing improved dramatically when I incorporated thumb OVER crossovers. Somewhere there's a free online book on piano technique that describes is in detail. I can't remember the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
au4onx Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 THUMB OVER? me no comprende senor. Please elaborate. THUMB OVER??? ist that phsycially possible????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Originally posted by au4onx: THUMB OVER? me no comprende senor. Please elaborate. THUMB OVER??? ist that phsycially possible????????? Do a search here on the forum (for thumb over) to read an explanation (and many arguments) about this technique. Actually, you're probably exhausted from overuse of the question mark, so just click here to read the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric.B Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Thumb over: take a look at http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/18/t/010412/p/1.html eric B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric.B Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Hey Sven, you beat me in that one! eric B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delirium Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Originally posted by au4onx: THUMB OVER? THUMB OVER??? ist that phsycially possible????????? no, it's not possible. Nevertheless a lot of good players do that.... ♫♫♫ motif XS6, RD700GX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsaras Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Thumb OVER is actually physically easier on fast passages. It should probably be renamed "thumb parallel to the hand". Just wiggling your thumb underneath your palm will reveal that you don't have a lot of control in that awkward position. Keeping your thumb in its natural plane makes more sense. The technique is described in detail here: http://members.aol.com/kwanmc/page/scale.htm Thumb under is used for slow, legato passages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I call it 'thumb glued to the index finger' deal. This is just a way to keep the hand compact. If you play a C major scale (RH) - the thumb (the side of the thumb) will play the C. The index finger will play the D and the middle finger will play the E. Without moving your thumb under your hand to prepare that F and without moving your wrist from side to side, you have to play that F with your thumb, right? You simply slide your entire hand\wrist\arm up the keyboard keeping your fingers parallel to the keys and drop the thumb down when you're over that F. There will be a break in the sound (from the E to the F) in the beginning, but with practice, it will go smoothly. If you don't follow this advice, you'll still have no problems at very slow tempos but once you start playing fast, you'll have problems ... and you will have to unlearn a bad habit. The 'trick' is to play using the least amount of effort (and motion). I had to relearn how to play when I was 28 or so, 28 years ago. I never forgot the great advice I was given - and I'm passing it on free of charge. Bottom line - get a teacher who can show you in real time what to do. No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric.B Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Here\'s a video to demonstrate the technique. eric B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 It would be great if that video could be slowed down. No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_tour Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Either slowed down, or played in such a way that it didn't look like the pianist had a brick taped to his (unseen) elbow. I'm sure he's a fine pianist -- but all that wobbling around makes me a bit nervous about recommending it as an example of good, relaxed technique. Not that I'm anyone to talk -- my pinky/ring finger independence is not as controlled as this guy, for one, not that I'm worried -- but the amount of force the pianist seems to place on the fingers and wrists looks like a fantastic recipe for carpal tunnel syndrome or some serious tendonitis. It just looks....painful, somehow. [EDIT: And yet, like a car accident, I can't help looking -- I think I've seen it three times already. I'm sure the man is a brilliant pianist -- or a woman with very hairy hands who is also a brilliant pianist -- but it just makes me cringe. Why? Because *every finger pushes down hard on every single key* -- it's not tetris, man! I'm not saying I could do any better, but it makes me hurt in all the wrong places, like watching a "boner" video on "America's Best Home Videos."] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 J_tour, you're right, there's a lot of unnecessary movement going on. I know some teachers subscribe to the coin on the top of the wrist bit to keep things quiet. I'm not one, but it would point out the obvious unnecessary movement. When I reflect back to when I took lessons and all the things I had to remember (at the same time) I must admit it can be frustrating for a young (or new) student to keep on track. Things do get easier with repetition - always remember that. Everyone wants immediate results and it can be difficult to start slowly and progress at a steady pace. To the original poster, tell us where you're from and perhaps someone here can suggest a good teacher in your area. I will give anyone who comes to me a free lesson (of several hours) to show them the basics. I took ten lessons from a concert pianist, now deceased, who really changed my life. I was contacted by his daughter a few months ago as his adult children were compiling a book or something for their mother for her 70th birthday (or something like that). I wrote an e-mail explaining how his teaching changed my life. It was well received. I'm rambling, but the point is, proper technique can be taught and can be taught using down to earth words and examples. To tell someone to relax without providing concrete examples of how to do that is less than useful. Technique should never be a philosophical or metaphysical discussion, it is a concrete discussion replete with concrete suggestions, examples and excercises. I was taught in a very concrete manner and for that I am eternally grateful. No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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