Music for Video Games

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Here's an interesting tidbit from CNN: [i] In 2002, sales of video game hardware and software rang in at $10.3 billion, even as revenue from hardware actually declined. That figure topped Hollywood's domestic box office, which was around $9.4 billion.[/i] Yes, you read that right. Video games are now making more revenue and are inherently more profitable than movies. So, for all you folks hoping to break into film composing, perhaps you should skip that altogether and aim for doing tunes for gamers. Complete article (actually on the upcoming "Matrix" games) [url=http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/fun.games/02/06/matrix.game.reut/index.html]here.[/url] - Jeff

[realtrance]

Music for games is tremendously less lucrative than it is for film, I would caution everyone. The Matrix game is not a good typical example, as it's being done by a team that's overspent, underdelivered multiple times before, and is not highly likely to do any better this time around. There are a very few people who've developed the knack of doing music right for games; they manage to survive, a couple of them have their names in lights at the moment and are doing spectacularly well. But, for all the growth of the games industry, it's just not going to support a lot of new talent, I'm afraid. Never hurts to try, though. :) rt

[phaeton]

Man... I can still to this day remember a lot of the music on games on my NES. I can remember the tunes better than i can remember some of the games they went with. A few of my favourites: Legend Of Zelda - every square-wave peep out of that game is excellent, IMHO. Super Mario Bros- the Water Levels. Super Mario Bros (for the SNES)- excellent, all of it. Double Dragon - excellent screaming metal guitar done in square-wave sounds!

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

[quote]Originally posted by realtrance: [b]Music for games is tremendously less lucrative than it is for film, I would caution everyone.[/b][/quote]True...today. People want more interactivity in all of their entertainment, it would seem. Fast forward ten years and there may be a lot more integration of what we today would call a "movie" and what we call a "game". In that same article, it spoke about Electronic Arts (big gaming developer) setting up a major hub here in L.A. and hiring 300 people who have film production experience. One can only assume that the scoring, effects sounds and other audio things that we take for granted as being lucrative in movie prodduction and post production will start to apply more seriously in the gaming world as well. - Jeff

[michael saulnier]

I think it's interesting that "blockbuster" movies and game versions of them are now uniformly linked. Instead of being the rare exception or an afterthought, aftermarket product, they are now integrated into the primary profit strategy. I can't imgagine that there will be a future "Spiderman" type movie without one or more games "built" around the images. It's also interesting that the demographic for games is slightly older than for films. I think the average gamer is about a decade older than the average movie goer... in the mid-30's. Someday soon, you'll be able to play the "movie" like a game, making choices along the way and having the story line change based on your interaction... Way cool dude. guitplayer

[Dogfur]

[quote]Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy: [b] Video games are now making more revenue and are inherently more profitable than movies.[/b][/quote]This has been a dark secret in Hollywood for a while and I'm sure they are not happy about it being publicized. Unfortunately for non-big name producers this means financing will get harder to come by for projects that aren't slated or able to have video game ties and the backing they require. A positive spin on this is that quality of video games has really gone through the roof - I have seen some of the most impressive graphic/sound packages recently, and it is only going to continue - And, yes, there are jobs opening up in this field! I saw an opening on the Lucasarts website for a staff composer a couple weeks ago. This fares well for the well-rounded musician/producer who can excel in a variety of styles.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

[quote]Originally posted by Dogfur: [b]This fares well for the well-rounded musician/producer who can excel in a variety of styles.[/b][/quote]I concur. It also, perhaps, opens up some opportunities to new blood. Movies (at least big-budget films from major studios) have gone back to the same very short list of scoring composers, foley engineers, effects and ADR guys for a long time. These guys are good...that's why they're in the position they are. But now, all of these arts (and more) are being utilized for games. Plus, games have the interactive music component that movies don't, meaning that they require [i]more[/i] music since the playback medium is not meant to be linear. Maybe all those hours I spent in my misbegotten youth in front of the Pong, Atari 2600, Nintendo NES, Sega Genesis, and (now) PS2 or XBox were actually not a waste of my life like my folks told me! :) - Jeff

[Rim]

FWIW, it seems to me the growth in video games is in console games (Xbox, PS2) and not in computer (PC) games.

[Felix_dup1]

I thought the trend in games was away from unique game "soundtracks" and towards the use of songs. I may be ignorant here (I'm not a gamer), but doesn't the new car theft game use all retro '80's tunes? I also recall Wipeout XL with its all-electronica soundtrack. Are there a lot of other games that use this approach now? I also know Trent Reznor has done some video game music - perhaps this could be another future trend, with a prominent musician/producer as the musical contributor (and additional draw) to a game. It also strikes me how video game music is inherently different than movie soundtracks, as a film is linear and a game is interactive. Interesting topic as usual, Jeff! :thu:

[Salyphus]

This is great news for me because I've been doing interactive audio applications on the Web for many years now and definitely felt like a sort of pioneer, but things seem to still be gaining steam with the convergence of the Web, Wireless and Entertainment. It is very different composing for interactivity than a linear format. It's an interesting concept to make a 'metacomposition' that can be affected by the user but is still ultimately defined by the composer. It will be interesting to see if it is possible to convince popular artists to compose music in formats like this. People like David Bowie and Peter Gabriel have done it, but not a whole lot of others. Really well done audio in games can be an incredible thing, for example Rare did an excellent job in N64 games such as Banjo-Kazooie; the theme music changes instrumentation/mood/timbre depending on what situation you find yourself in, but it morphs smoothly with the same basic piece of music, for example. I haven't gotten to check out all of the latest games yet, but I'm not talking about technical innovation as much as artistry, though they should ideally go hand in hand.

[RobT]

For all you musicians interested in the gamer market check out: [url=http://www.gdmag.com/homepage.htm]Game Developer Magazine[/url] It has a very good column on music for the video game industry. Most of you pro, semi-pro and the like might be able swing a free subscription as some swag. [b]I do not work for the magazine [/b]

[realtrance]

Yes, the EA La Playa studio is going to grow, and do a lot of hiring -- from the, guess what, film industry. The reason they're consolidating and increasing the studio in La Playa is exactly for that reason; they know, with the current state of the movie and music industries, that they can get a lot of talent for relatively cheap, with the necessary foley and sound design background they're looking for, along with orchestral film composition style (currently the fad in EA games) and the rest. Again, I would caution that this current fad does not represent bold new opportunities for people to enter a new market; rather, it's a cost-savings maneuver on the part of a very large publisher taking on very high risk, with massive development costs and the need to outpace all the competition (primarily, MS and Sony) in asset quality to try to manage the risk. With a couple of failed, VERY expensive projects -- Earth and Beyond, which I think took over four years to develop and cost around $15 million, all told, before marketing and advertising and distribution costs; and The Sims Online, which went over the original one-year development time frame to three, and cost $23 million to develop, with an extremely disappointing sell-thru upon release and no significant prospect of improvement -- EA is reverting, unfortunately, back to the Hollywood model that killed the games industry a few years ago, in the hopes of recouping on such losses with an increase in "wow" factor on the front end for their games. Squaresoft tried this, going more and more towards the rendered animation cinematic approach in their Final Fantasy series, culminating in trying to make a movie without the game... and it flopped. I don't think EA will succeed if it pushes too far in that direction, either. As an example: while Jeremy Soule's score for Medal of Honor, EA's hit game based on Spielberg's "Saving Private Ryan," is a nice step up from a game music point of view, and I definitely respect the polish of the work Soule does, this is not exactly innovative music-making. The "making of" trailer for the PS2 version of the game features some out-takes of the musicians recording for the sound-track. You can see by the expressions on many of the musicians' faces that they're doing this for the buck.... "they want me to sing... what? this is idiotic!... well, hey, it's a few bucks, oh well." You can ape the style of the average orchestral film score in a game right now and score huge hits with an audience used to the endless driving beats typical of game music during the period 1995-2000 (with the original Wipeout for Playstation in 1995, released when the first Playstation came out, setting the tone there). Only problem with that is, it's a style that's ludicrous for most games, the story and design of which these days is if anything even more sophomoric, and definitely more pretentious, than before. It'll be popular for a little while, and then fade once the apparent freshness of the approach wears off. You might also notice that recent blockbuster movies have large sections which, if you're a gamer, you'll say to yourself, "oh, yeah, obviously they filmed that as a sequence for an action game." A number of these both in the Harry Potter movies, and in the Lord of the Rings movies. So, the influence of games on movies has increased the "game-like" quality of movies, and not often to their benefit. There's little excitement in seeing, Roger Rabbit-like, actors trying to re-enact on-screen sequences from '80s platform games. The Harry Potter broomstick race chase scene, for example, is one of the low points, one of the most enervating sequences, in that movie. Trying to integrate movies and games has gone through a number of cycles in the history of gaming, and it's failed every time; it's usually a last-resort effort to capture market when the investment, patience, energy and resources are being pulled back from the design side of games development. Kind of the game development equivalent of "reality" TV, with writerless shows. It'll be a good, temporary outlet for unemployed people in the film and foley sound businesses around Hollywood, whom the games industry is eager to get on the cheap; but again, I would caution against expecting a whole new market for new entry into the medium as a result of this fad. rt

[realtrance]

I would also add, along with the magazine reference RobT gives above, that a good site to subscribe to to keep an eye on openings for sound designers with game companes is: [url=http://www.gamasutra.com]www.gamasutra.com[/url] This is the main jobs database for the games industry, and where you'll find the freshest information on positions recently available. rt

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Wow! Great info, RT. Like someone mentioned, the use of multiple music stems with excellent (seamless, in many cases) transitions to reflect the different situations within the game is something that you don't get to do in a linear format (songs, film scores, etc.). I find it pretty exciting, and with the production values going in the direction they have been over the past five years, we're getting to a point where quality compromise (to fit the tight memory requirements) is minimal compared to just a few years ago. Fun stuff. - Jeff

[realtrance]

To add to the information at a slightly more technical level: I would HIGHLY recommend anyone reading this thread take a look at the web pages and info at: [url=http://www.staccatosystems.com]www.staccatosystems.com[/url] I do not work for or anywhere near them; but I was impressed a coupla years back at a trade show with their technical approach to dynamic sound technology for games. They use the principles of physical modelling well-known in the electronic music world (well, to Korg and Yamaha, at least ) and apply them to a set of software apps they've developed for linking sound dynamics into game interaction. I'm a firm fan of, "if someone's already built it well, don't go re-inventing the wheel!" so this kind of thing is highly desireable. There's a wide range of related sorts of tools out there, perhaps not familiar to the music tech audience, beyond the most common ones, that it would be very useful to bone up on, if you're interested in exploring this area further. rt

[realtrance]

Sorry for multi-posting, but I guess for all my Cassandra-like warnings I do remain enthused about the possibilities.. One thing you should DEFINITELY look at as an interesting innovation in the linking of games to music is a title released on Sony PS2 not too long ago: Frequency (there are 50 million PS2s out there right now, btw, and growing fast; not bad for potential market). There are some very cutting-edge folks up in the MA area who put that game together, and who are currently working on a follow-up, and it sounds like even if the first game they made didn't sell spectacularly, they've been rewarded for their innovative efforts with further encouragement and commitment from their publisher. I do think that some creative speculation on how to pull off a "game" that provides some of the pleasures of music-making to a more general audience (not expected to become master analogue synthesists or guitar-players ), supported by creative production of music elements which can "stem," as Jeff mentions above, would be very valuable at this point. How would you, as a musician, envision the fun you have making music in a form that would be enchanting, enthralling, gripping to an Unreal Tournament 2003 addict? I know it happens the other way around, time to strike back! ;) Okay, I'll go take my morning nap now... :bor: rt

[Dogfur]

Here's an interesting thought in this realm - Xbox live is now a network of gamers playing xbox games over broadband hookups. What would be requirements, legal and such, of broadcasting music on those metworks for gamers to "tune in" to while playing? Is anybody doing this? Just a thought, I'm rambling today...

[aliengroover]

Yeah, video games are on a whole 'nother level than they were even 3 years ago. And the opportunity for music in video games has certainly increased, IMHO, seeing as how we are only in the first year or two of a new format: the DVD ROM, which means the music won't have to take a backseat memory-wise. And the number of games being produced is ridiculous. So, just like TV shows, somebody has to do that music, big names or not. Music is so much more a part of video games, and I mean actual songs. Also, I have played Frequency, as well as MTV's Music Generator. Both are interesting games, with the latter actually allowing you to put your own samples into it. Kinda fun. Peace

[realtrance]

Dogfur, Yes, just one example. My question remains, how much of _any_ media have to be distributed in solid form to the audience, after awhile? Less and less, I'd assume. What if, say, Animal Crossing style (Gamecube), you had the option of "loading" your "music player" in-game with whatever you wanted as background, and that got streamed to you broadband while you play? What if you could "win" access to movies, music, photos, other media as part of the play? What you'd get might be virtual, or a discount on the real-world items, or maybe, if you've paid for the game and it includes "five music CDs and four movies, your choice" from the game's distributor, simply access, via the game's interface, to that media anytime, anywhere, once you'd achieved certain goals in the game? Of course it could go in ludicrous ways, too: "to turn to the next page of the novel Moby Dick, you must first solve this puzzle..." (AGH!!) There are so many ways of doing it wrong, whomever figures out who to do it right will really succeed. Again, my offer stands. ;) rt

[Dogfur]

[quote]Originally posted by realtrance: [b] Again, my offer stands. ;) rt[/b][/quote]What offer? :confused:

[realtrance]

Shhhh... it's a secret! ;) rt

[DJDM]

[quote]Originally posted by realtrance: [b] How would you, as a musician, envision the fun you have making music in a form that would be enchanting, enthralling, gripping to an Unreal Tournament 2003 addict? I know it happens the other way around, time to strike back! ;) [/b][/quote]So RT? Doing a little market research? ;) I have a lot of thoughts about this issue. I have been playing games all of my life and doing audio all of my life. The recent trends in music for games is [b]very[/b] exciting to me and my gamer buddies as it creates a whole new level of excitement and people really do notice it. Even non musicians will comment on how much they like the audio in say Halo, which is IMHO one of the best examples of audio environments and substantial compositional ability being brought to bear in a very substantive way. People respond well to it. So I see the future as very ripe in this area... but as you mentioned there will be flubs and a lot of money spent on unsuccessful titles. I have several tracks that are going to be featured in the upcoming Warner Bros. [url=http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/]“Animatrix”[/url] production and there is talk about using said tracks in the upcoming games as well but as has been pointed out they are getting composers cheap! I was not allowed to renegotiate my contract to include a clause for additional payment for this possibility without losing the whole deal. Basically they are trying to save money anywhere they can... thank god for mechanical and broadcast royalties. Not sure how that will stack up on games yet though. As for your query about an exciting game that incorporates a musical focus without alienation? A game that allows you to engage in some sort of musical creation without the repercussions of failure is what you are really asking for I think? It would need to be colorful and exciting, sort of like an intuitive SF [url=http://www.sonicfoundry.com/products/showproduct.asp?PID=535]Super Duper Music Looper[/url] with vivid amorphous colors instead of a linear layout designed to be very tight in its competitive elements. That just for a start. As for marketing? Targeting the Unreal camp will only be successful if you consider the following: Unreal is about going into a primal trance that is focused on one thing (mostly)... achieving a higher rating in the nationals or kicking your friends asses. There are far more engaging games out there that don't focus so much on the splatter and speed with little sense of resolution like UR or Quake but they have not engaged gamers and triggered those parts of the brain in quite the same way. Music creation by its very concept is a little more thoughtful than that. But it does not have to be... ;) I have a rough idea for a game that is very exciting and scalable that incorporates many of the concepts that would appeal to gamers and modern audio lovers in general. Now if I could only get someone in a decision making position with a software company to listen to my pitch, bring me onboard to develop the sound design elements and pay me (enough to leave my present job)! :freak: - DJDM

[Deathtoallwhoopposeme]

My Best friend has been trying to get into Games and out of the Web Relm for several years. He has a great company and theyare very successfull with Web Broadband applications, but he has only been able to get tidbits in the Game industry. He says it's VERY VERY difficult to get in and the music for Games is very cinematic and the level of Film scores. It looks like they just picked up the entire Terminator 3 Game, all CG, Music etc etc so i'm happy for him. 2 Years in the trenches in LA and 6 in the Bay area during the Dot.com Boom.In any case, He tells me it's extremely difficult to get into Game Soundtracks and he knows some of the pioneers and very successfull Game Composers. I just wanted to give you guys heads up about the competition out there and how sick some of these guys are. Many of them have Demos's with Full Orchestras, recorded in extremely expensive studios...Every Bit, The James Newton Howard, John Williams level. My friend's Company is [url=http://www.Blitzds.com]www.Blitzds.com[/url] if anyone is interested. Peace. Sean