whitefang Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 A recent piece in the paper dealt with the release of some old music on what's called the "new" DVD audio format. This article went on to explain how a DVD disk has more "room" on it to handle more information than the standard CD disk. Therefore, the sound quality surpasses anything currently available on compact disc. Regardless of which method is used. According to the article, the DVD audio disks are wonderful! Spectacular! Awesome! They are EVERYTHING! Except...playable on current compact dic players. At least to where the difference could be heard. So, it seems to me, if DVD audio really catches on, the industry will cease pumping out CD's and convert to DVD audio exclusively. Like they dumped making vinyl. And I, who am NOT made of money, will have to scrape up the bucks to replace a perfectly good piece of sound equipment. Anyone out there know much about DVD audio? Am I worrying over nothing? Or what?? Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Hey Whitefang, From what I can tell, there are competing formats within DVD audio and no clear winner yet (kind of like a Beta verses VHS war). Of course the manufacturer's were hoping for a higher standard (so they can re sell their entire catalogs again like they did with CDs) and totally confused by the popularity of mp3 audio which has really taken off where the high resolution audio hasn't caught on at all. I don't think you have anything to worry about in the near future. I'd say CDs will be the standard for quite a while yet. -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joegerardi Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 I bought my DVD player specifically because it played DVD-A. There is an amazing difference between it and CDs. However, it won't make CDs go away. Mine plays CDs also, so I don't have to replace my entire back catalogue, only those certain CDs that are classics to me, and I never want to be without the best version of. Being an old Prog head, the first DVD-A I bought was ELP's Brain Salad Surgery. (Which was also the first DVD-A ever released.) There is quite a difference in sonic fidelity from the CD. I heard a LOT of stuff I never heard before. Will it replace CDs? Hard to say. The war right now is between them, and SACD, with no clear winner. ..Joe Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thrashole Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 DVD audio and SACD (super audio Cd) are the two formats competing in the hi res game. Both formats will handle 24 bit 192Khz recordings. They blow CD's right out of the water in terms of sound quality. They will most likely be an audiophile format for some time to come though. The thing that is cool about them is the ability to handle a 5.1 mix. There just isn't enough music out in either format to see if it will survive. Reach out and grab a clue. Something Vicious My solo crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botch. Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by whitefang: [b]Anyone out there know much about DVD audio? Am I worrying over nothing? Or what?? Whitefang[/b][/quote]If the music industry continues to crumble like it is, there will be no new releases anyway. I'd say take good care of your current CDs, use your current CD player, and three years from now spring for a DVD-A Walkman for $29.95 and buy any DVD disks (of old artists, of course) that you may desire. :( Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 I'm into these as well... I figure the DVD-A stands the better shot, because conventional DVD players will play them...at least, it'll play most of the files on them - I believe you need a special DVD-A compatible player to get to some of the hi-res files on some of the DVD-As - where you need a special player to be able to play the SACDs. So, I can grow my DVD-A collection (I've got about 15) without spending any more money on a proprietary player, unlike the SACDs. Plus, many of the DVD-A discs have DTS mixes that play fine on conventional DVD players as well (as long as you have DTS compatible receiver, and have the audio between the two devices hooked up digitally) - it's only the 24/96 files that need the special DVD-A player, I believe. If the DVD-A thing catches on, maybe I'll spring for a player that'll let me hear the hi-res files on the discs I already own; but, in the meantime, I get to listen to Heart Of The Sunrise remixed for 5.1 right now. :thu: dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Leites Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 My JVC DVD player plays audio DVD and came with a sample disc. The most noticable thing was hearing it in 5.1; discrete audio coming out of the rear speakers. It's cool, but I don't consider it a realistic experience, because at a concert, except for ambient sound, the performance is in fount of you. My Web Site - Tunes - Pictures - Guitar Projects - Native American Style Flute Projects - Hard Rock Cafe Guitar Pins My Eclectic YouTube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roto Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Dave Bryce: [b]I'm into these as well... I figure the DVD-A stands the better shot, because conventional DVD players will play them...at least, it'll play most of the files on them - I believe you need a special DVD-A compatible player to get to some of the hi-res files on some of the DVD-As - where you need a special player to be able to play the SACDs. So, I can grow my DVD-A collection (I've got about 15) without spending any more money on a proprietary player, unlike the SACDs. Plus, many of the DVD-A discs have DTS mixes that play fine on conventional DVD players as well (as long as you have DTS compatible receiver, and have the audio between the two devices hooked up digitally) - it's only the 24/96 files that need the special DVD-A player, I believe. If the DVD-A thing catches on, maybe I'll spring for a player that'll let me hear the hi-res files on the discs I already own; but, in the meantime, I get to listen to Heart Of The Sunrise remixed for 5.1 right now. :thu: dB[/b][/quote]My conventional Sony DVD player plays SACD. I had it for a year before I finally got a few Rolling Stones reissues that just came out. They are double layered so they play on a normal cd player also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Roto: [b]My conventional Sony DVD player plays SACD.[/b][/quote]No it doesn't. :) It reads and plays SACD discs. But for true SACD performance, you can't have [i]any[/i] PCM digital processing in the signal chain. And PCM is still the basis for DVD. I can't even really comment on the original topic of this thread. This has been one of the biggest areas of controversy in my industry for at least the last three or four years, and every side of the argument has a valid point. My only opinion: I think that DVD-A will win the hi-res battle, although I also think that true SACD is the best-sounding format available to mankind today. And yes, Compact Discs will be gone sooner than most of you think, to be replaced by a format such as DVD. But you still have quite a few years of standard CDs, so not to worry. - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Sound Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 I've got both a DVD-Audio player and a SACD player. So far.... I haven't really had a good opportunity to compare the 2 as far as sound quality.... Most titles are not released in BOTH formats to compare. Sony has been just flooding the market with SACDs that are just high-res stereo tranfers... which is really disappointing. When they get around to actually recording at a high res SACD it's pretty cool.... but so far I'm hearing more of a difference with DVDA. Sound quality aside.... I really think this is gonna go down something like this: You can't "burn" SACDs. This is a fact... there will NEVER be a way you can "burn" SACDs.. not even a reference copy of your mix... Sony likes it that way... and so do the majors. I see the major labels making the jump to SACD starting out with a Hybrid CD layer. The problem being... they expect the general public to just "not" notice it when they decide to take that non-copy protected Hybrid layer away. Oh they'll never notice it.... they'll just start buying music and give away their MP3 players.... :rolleyes: I don't see any independents really being able to pay for a factory pressing every time they want a short run or a demo. They'll end up using DVD-A if they want high res or surround. You can already buy any DVDR burner and Discwelder Basic for $500 and burn your own DVDAs in surround or buy the $2500 version for high res with MLP. Of course, this software will only become cheaper in the next couple of years. I also see DVDA being the format for high res typical classical concert recording... simply for the non-"burnable" SACD issue. I don't know many of my clients who would want to pay for a SACD pressing when they just want a good recording of a recital. :freak: This whole format war will for a good part be decided by not the technology itself but the driving sales force of the industry in the future. If the majors are still around and like the copy protection on SACD they will probably be more SACDs around by virture of numbers of copies. If the majors fall and the industry moves to small local record companies and indie artists with smaller runs I think they'll want to go DVDA. I guess we'll see.... I hope we get one new high res format from all of this... I'd hate to see both die! Valky Valkyrie Sound: http://www.vsoundinc.com Now at TSUTAYA USA: http://www.tsutayausa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botch. Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Valkyrie Sound: [b]You can't "burn" SACDs. This is a fact... there will NEVER be a way you can "burn" SACDs.. not even a reference copy of your mix... Valky[/b][/quote]Just a warning, they said the same thing about CDs when they came out, they never dreamed that anyone could burn their own. Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Sound Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Botch.: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Valkyrie Sound: [b]You can't "burn" SACDs. This is a fact... there will NEVER be a way you can "burn" SACDs.. not even a reference copy of your mix... Valky[/b][/quote]Just a warning, they said the same thing about CDs when they came out, they never dreamed that anyone could burn their own.[/b][/quote]Yeah.. true... but if: 1. They don't add a burnable format to the spec and 2. The don't allow anyone the rights to develop a burner or blank discs.... .... then you won't be burning a SACD! ;) There's a good chance someone will develop a SACD player DVD-A recorder combo deck that might make a copy... but it won't be a SACD. :D ;) Valky Valkyrie Sound: http://www.vsoundinc.com Now at TSUTAYA USA: http://www.tsutayausa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Botch.: [b]Just a warning, they said the same thing about CDs when they came out, they never dreamed that anyone could burn their own.[/b][/quote]What Valky is talking about is that the entire encoding process is completely different between SACD and PCM-based digital formats like Compact Disc and DVD. The entire 1-bit encoding process is nothing that computer equipment can handle. You need dedicated SACD tools, and Sony (having learned their lessson with CD) will not be releasing the technology for those tools. We (TASCAM) make the world's only tape-based SACD recorder. Others (HHB for example) make hard disk based SACD recorders. None of us have the ability to make SACD discs, though. Yes, I know things can change in the future. The ability for the general public to burn SACD discs seems like an unlikely scenario, though. So listen to the Valky, for she speaketh sooth. - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I I mjrn Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy: [b]The ability for the general public to burn SACD discs seems like an unlikely scenario, though.[/b][/quote]As is the need/desire to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botch. Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Hmmm, does that mean, if the SACD succeeds (and doesn't follow in Beta's footsteps) that [i]all[/i] albums ever recorded would have to be sent to Sony for pressing? Holy Microsquash, Batman! I would think that alone would hurt the format. Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 Thanks, guys. Seems like the nod goes to not worrying for a while. Gives me time to save up for whatever comes next. I have a GoVideo DVD/VCR combo, and I dug out my manual to find their customer service e-mail address. So, I posed the question to them if my unit could play the DVD audio. They say no. Not being a technophile, I fail to see why not. I suppose my best bet at this time would be to borrow a DVD audio disc from someone I know who might have one, and give it a shot. My unit CAN play CD's, and it's hooked up to my sound system. But when I played a CD through it for the hell of it, I noticed a considerable loss of sound quality. Thanks again for the help. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not Cereal Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 ever notice how dvd player dont do a very good job at continuous cd's? i mean the cd's that when the tracks change, the sound doesnt stop so you wouldnt hear the tracj change. but on dvd players playing cd's you can hear the tracks change. at least the ones i have heard. also, most dont seem to scan well. forwards ok, but try reverse scanning into the previous track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Botch.: [b]Hmmm, does that mean, if the SACD succeeds (and doesn't follow in Beta's footsteps) that [i]all[/i] albums ever recorded would have to be sent to Sony for pressing? Holy Microsquash, Batman! I would think that alone would hurt the format.[/b][/quote]I don't know that Sony intends SACD to be the overwhelming standard in playback formats that CD has become. By keeping it as an audiophile interest, they could use their worldwide pressing plants (there are several of them in multiple countries) and indeed do all of the SACD production themselves. And, by the way, I'm speculating here. I've had the pleasure of doing some work with David Kawakami, Sony's evangelist for SACD, but I have no inside scoop on the DVD-A or SACD future. Just some educated guesses. - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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