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merging of sounds from multiple keyboards vs Nord Stage


suraci

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Hello,

My question is directed at the "fact" that the Nord Stage 88 was very impressive to me in the way it beautifully, musically ( dare I use that term?) merged the sound of 4 different keyboard worlds together so easily. Whenever I try to MiDI a mere single keyboard with another sound source, the results are less than stellar, often very unsatisfying.

I have always wanted to blend ac piano, ep, B3, strings and synth together. i have never succeeded half as well as this Nord Stage 88 does, right out of the box.

 

Am I just dreaming all of this? Does anyone agree or disagree, or even care ( based on the zero replies so far ) about the merging of disparate sounds. Clavia's method, seems sonically superior to the MIDI method. Of course, the Big 3 ( or is it 4 ) have spent time organizing and mixing their performances/combis/setups etc. When I try to accompish this, I fall far short of Roland Korg and Yamaha's sound people. The reason is obvious, i am a musician not a sound designer. My time is better spent making music, not spending too large a proportion of time learning about sound design.

 

The Nord Stage seems ( there's that word, SEEMS ) to make it much easier. Almost any combination of sounds, are "interesting", if not outright very pleasing. Is this too good to be true? . If some of you owners of the Nord Stage can comment on my impressions, I, and some of the others on here would surely benefit. If this turns out to be "true", then the so called "too expensive" argument against the Nord Stage, is essentially invalid. Whether it is the converters or some other combination of factors, this Stage "SEEMS" to best most keyboards, with respect to BLENDING/MIXING of the composite parts - on the fly, on stage etc. THAT seems to be it's niche, its new paradigm for others to emulate.

 

No, I am not in any way affliated with the Swedish company!

 

Thanks much

 

full time veteran musician

The difference between what the most and the least learned people know is inexpressibly trivial in relation to that which is unknown
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Night owl, aren't you? ;)

 

I'm a Stage owner, and I agree with you. That's why I sold my other keyboards and am using just the Stage live.

 

It is very musical in its connection to the sounds from the keyboard, and everything is laid out right in front of you for tweaking on the fly.

 

The individual sounds are great, and although certain soft synths can probably claim to be more spectacular, nothing else packages these sounds together so well.

Moe

---

 

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IMHO, there's nothing out there like the Stage. Between the VA, the excellent sample based Pianos and EP's, and the fantastic Nord B3 (not to mention the Vox and Farfisa), the possibilities are endless, and yes, very pleasing...

 

Unlike Moe, (or is it Dave? :) ) I haven't sold my other boards. Their use has changed though. I am using my Motif ES exclusively to trigger the Stage Organs, and for leads and pads culled from the RoM sample set, and three PLG cards. My An1x is gathering dust right now, but I don't think I'll sell that beast, at least not just yet, and my S80 is almost exclusively used as controller...

 

aL

Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand.

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I am in the process of integrating a Stage Compact into my rig (it was S90 + Electro and I am transitioning to S90 + Stage Compact). So far, I'm really happy with the Stage and am exploring the notion of using it for all piano, EP and organ duties. I love the S90 action (plus I need some rompler & arp duties), so I'm setting up some Master patches in the S90 that allow it to control the Stage modules for EP and piano primarily, and then playing organ and synth directly from the Stage action.

 

I had avoided the weighted action Stage versions, because I'm addicted to the Electro's waterfall keys and could not give up my S90 for reasons stated above and other logistical reasons.

 

I think it will take a LONG time to fully realize all the features in the Stage. It is an incredibly deep instrument and I could see using it by itself in many settings.

 

Regards,

Eric

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Have you any clue WHY this red beauty sounds so convincing on so many many user created settings/mixes of its component sounds...??

 

The genius of this kb seems to be the way it merges/mixes sounds; sounds that are excellent to begin with, true enough; Is that the whole answer, excellent sounds to play with = excellent combinations of sounds, I think not?. The Motif ES has excellent sounds ( some - their "full" ac piano is sub standard ) but does not have this X factor, this genius for blending sounds to the DEGREE of the Nord Stage, or so it appears at this early stage.

I am auditioning it thru an excellent stereo PA.

 

All higher end keyboards have SOME presets that sound great. I am trying to figure out if I am kidding myself with the Stage. It is as if I am a super-talented sound designer, ONLY when I use the Stage. I would hate to buy this board only to find out I was duped.

The Nord seems analogous to a $5000 Manley Massive Passive EQ, some settings may be odd, but few are really bad, most are awesome, and unattainable without it.

What is it about this board that allows it to do what no other company except *maybe* the $8000 Korg can do, to some degree- merge, blend, mix, disparate sounds so musically?

 

* The Korg OASYS' organ, is NOT what this Nord Stage is. Neither is Korgs' Ac Piano. Their EP is excellent though.*

The difference between what the most and the least learned people know is inexpressibly trivial in relation to that which is unknown
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suraci, it sounds like in the Nord Stage you have encountered keyboard nirvana. It's ok. Enjoy. ;)

 

Blending sounds within a synth might sound better because they share the same engine (maybe).

 

When synths are MIDIed together, you still get the individual personalities of the different instruments.

 

The results really depend on the sound/effect desired. :cool:

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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I don't want to be a mood breaker, but what are you think about the entire feeling, and looks of the Nord Stage 88?

 

Personally, I never got into it, it feels and looks like an unfinished product.

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It's a very unique and versatile instrument. It's easy to use and sounds great. It has great features, many sound routing and stacking possibilities. It's a player's instrument. What's more, it is easily upgradeable and Clavia occasionally puts out additional patches, and feature enhancements.

 

You're not "breaking the mood", but the Stage looks like a finished product to me!

 

aL

Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand.

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TaurusTee, your sentence structure speaks eloquently for your anti Nord position! Un "finished product.." not unlike your response to my thread!!!

 

ProfD. Yes, your reasoning makes sense. But it does not adequately explain why the Nord accomplishes this Buddhist ecstacy so often.

Nirvana or charlatanism, that is the question by this, 'been duped before', dude.

 

Thank you

The difference between what the most and the least learned people know is inexpressibly trivial in relation to that which is unknown
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Originally posted by suraci:

Have you any clue WHY this red beauty sounds so convincing on so many many user created settings/mixes of its component sounds...??

 

The genius of this kb seems to be the way it merges/mixes sounds; sounds that are excellent to begin with, true enough; Is that the whole answer, excellent sounds to play with = excellent combinations of sounds, I think not?. The Motif ES has excellent sounds ( some - their "full" ac piano is sub standard ) but does not have this X factor, this genius for blending sounds to the DEGREE of the Nord Stage, or so it appears at this early stage.

I am auditioning it thru an excellent stereo PA.

 

All higher end keyboards have SOME presets that sound great. I am trying to figure out if I am kidding myself with the Stage. It is as if I am a super-talented sound designer, ONLY when I use the Stage. I would hate to buy this board only to find out I was duped.

The Nord seems analogous to a $5000 Manley Massive Passive EQ, some settings may be odd, but few are really bad, most are awesome, and unattainable without it.

What is it about this board that allows it to do what no other company except *maybe* the $8000 Korg can do, to some degree- merge, blend, mix, disparate sounds so musically?

 

* The Korg OASYS' organ, is NOT what this Nord Stage is. Neither is Korgs' Ac Piano. Their EP is excellent though.*

I've never played an OASYS, so I cannot comment on how it compares to the Stage. Its specs are rather impressive and it seems to be a wholly different kind of instrument in terms of the uber workstation bells and whistles.

 

As for the Stage doing its job in spades, I think it has something to do with each of the modules having dedicated and genuinely authentic FX. Rather than everything just being processed by a global effect. I also think they have done some creative separation of each engine to make them "sit in the mix" as a unit without getting lost when layered together. This is impressive. Like I mentioned before, this is one deep instrument and it really is a player's instrument. I cannot wait to get mine out on the gig starting this weekend.

 

Regards,

Eric

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Where are you Prof ing at?

 

I was hoping to find a little more gaseous empathy here at the K Corner.

Is it better at mixing its indigenous sounds, or not? Please, no more about the subjective angle, I filled with GAS.

Assuming you once thought your Motif ES or your Fantom were magical in this specific MIXING sense, how does the latest incarnation of multitimbralness compare?

If "Yes, Nord blends better", why?

If No, Oh well.

The difference between what the most and the least learned people know is inexpressibly trivial in relation to that which is unknown
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Eric- thank you. So when you say "in spades", you are saying my hunch is reliable. At this stage ( sorry, I couldn't resist ), the Nord Stage is superior to the Big Four purely in terms of an electronically naive but advanced musician, being able to easily blend these disparate sounds to his hearts content? I have never been able to accomplish this on any of the Big Four.

JUST in this aspect ( leaving other aspects out of consideration ) alone, this "Stage" is markedly superior? I know it is politically incorrect to speak this way, but I am interested in music not political correctness. In the bland world painted by ( 1984 ) Orwell, we see a supposedly ideal world where nothing is better than anything else.. pure hell, in my antequated judgement. PC favors that world IMO. Sorry for digression.

The difference between what the most and the least learned people know is inexpressibly trivial in relation to that which is unknown
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Originally posted by suraci:

Whenever I try to MiDI a mere single keyboard with another sound source, the results are less than stellar, often very unsatisfying.

How much did you play with velocity curves? That could make all the difference between how well a keyboard works with a given soundsource.
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Originally posted by suraci:

Eric- thank you. So when you say "in spades", you are saying my hunch is reliable. At this stage ( sorry, I couldn't resist ), the Nord Stage is superior to the Big Four purely in terms of an electronically naive but advanced musician able to easily blend these sounds to his hearts content? I have never been able to accomplish this on any of the Big Four.

JUST in this aspect, this "Stage" is superior? I know it is politically incorrect to speak this way, but I am interested in music not correctness. In the bland world painted by ( 1984 ) Orwell, we see a supposedly ideal world where nothing is better than anything else.. pure hell, in my antequated judgement.

The way a keyboard sounds is highly subjective and one user's opinion of how well it "blends" could be vastly different than another's based on taste, experience, gear being compared, etc. It sounds like you are trying to get this forum to talk you into buying one based on subjective criteria. Only you can decide if it moves you and will take you to the next level to justify the cost of the instrument.

 

I have used the Nord Electro for 4+ years and always felt that it did a nice job of nailing that "unvarnished" sound of the source instruments that it emulates. The Stage adds to this with a greater level of flexibility and extensions of the great sounds they started in the Electro. It is a very different experience to playing one of the "Big 3" workstations or romplers. I cannot tell you that it is better because it is not an apples to apples comparison. The Stage is a focused instrument that does a smaller list of duties in an exemplary manner (at least this is my opinion based on 2 weeks of playing with the keyboard at home).

 

I suggest that if you are *that close* to getting one, just go ahead and do it. End your curiosity. Put yourself out of the misery of GAS. That's what I had to do. I've lusted after the Stage ever since I heard the first announcement of it. In fact, I've lusted after it since I suggested Nord should build it several years ago...not saying I initiated their product, but it was something that I felt would be a great product - a merging of the best of Nord's virtual instruments. I could not push myself over the edge until the Compact became available.

 

Regards,

Eric

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You are " "right on" "the money"." I have not done much velocity experimenting. Too busy with gigging. I know, sounds dumb. I have done some work with it though.

A Roland expert told me there are definite distinctions between their keyboards in terms of the velocity issue as it relates to sound. Some keyboards ( I am being sensitive here, by omitting the name, now, a mostly forgotten Roland model ! ) are clearly inferior in this regard to others. That is the general sentiment I gleaned from our conversation . Given the vast number of possibilities, my statement has to be general.

Velocity and its effect on sound is profound in my opinion. It is NOT just a matter of playing with the settings. Some keyboards are better than others for specific desired results. Settings are important, but will not cure all issues relating to inbred programing of you kb.

 

Who has the time for this? That is yet another reason this Nord Stage 88 is very enticing; the stuff works out of the box, and mere playing with dials seems very very encouraging.

The difference between what the most and the least learned people know is inexpressibly trivial in relation to that which is unknown
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I almost feel admonished, but thanks Eric!!

I don't know if there is such a thing as "this forum" and "this forum talking me into" anything! Sorry, just funnin' with you!

 

I think if I keep narrowing down my topic, this thread will be of greater service to all interested parties.

 

So then, I shall limit some more.

 

"Meat and Potatoes sounds" limited to ac piano, EP's, clav's, organ and some synth's. No Bass, no drums, no strings to speak of, no brass, no reeds, no solo acoustic orchestral instruments save the ac piano, etc etc.

 

Given those limits, then adding the aspect I have been harping on- namely all manner of combinations of this small list of wonderful sounds; is it safe to say, this is the BOMB for those purposes, or am I still offending some of the more sensitive among us?

 

i promise you, my GAS will have relief, one way or the other! No one can talk me into buying a $3200 keyboard!

 

I am headed for the music store for yet another audition of the Nord Stage 88. This store has a no return policy!! I must be fairly certain Eric. It is in bad taste to spend lots of time in a non GuitarC store and then purchase from Musicians Friend aka GuitarC.;

as long as we are all so senstive to others feelings!!?

 

All the above spoken with the light heartedness of an older dude!! I wish you all lots of positive musical and life experiences.

 

Thanks for listening

The difference between what the most and the least learned people know is inexpressibly trivial in relation to that which is unknown
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Originally posted by suraci:

I almost feel admonished, but thanks Eric!!

I don't know if there is such a thing as "this forum" and "this forum talking me into" anything! Sorry, just funnin' with you!

 

...

All the above spoken with the light heartedness of an older dude!! I wish you all lots of positive musical and life experiences.

 

Thanks for listening

No admonishment...seriously. :)

 

Just trying to be as clear as I can based on how I feel about the keyboard. The Electro and Stage are quite polarizing keyboards...many people love them to death, but just as many people seem to love to hate them. So when you start throwing around subjective comments, it gets a bit dicey and I don't want you to make a buying decision based on this advice alone!

 

Good luck to you and keep us posted! :):thu:

 

Regards,

Eric

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suraci, I doubt that anyone is that sensitive here. However, the fact remains that it is still a subjective issue.

 

It sounds like the Nord Stage fits the bill for your needs. It's all good.

 

Some cats believe they can get the same or similar results from their favorite piece of gear.

 

I've played the Nord Stage. It is a fantastic instrument for M&P and other sounds. The piano in it is a lot better than the Electro too.

 

I would rock it on a gig--no doubt. The only reason I would not buy one is because it is not multitimbral.

 

Otherwise, I say let that fart go and get it. Sounds like YOUR mind is made up. ;):cool:

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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ALMOST "made up" ( my mind), my tough skinned friend!

Have you ever bought into Enron stocks???

I am holding my gas like a polite young man i was trained to be!

When I finally do bring it home, i will have a generous array of scented candles all lit up nice and tidy!

 

Two things

M&P??

Not Multitimbral? Explain please!!

The difference between what the most and the least learned people know is inexpressibly trivial in relation to that which is unknown
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M&P is marmelade and pajamas. :D

 

Multitimbrality refers to the keyboard's ability to play more than one sound at a time, either on the same or on several different midi channels. In fact, the Stage is six part multitimbral! It can play six instruments at once: 2 organs, 2 synths and 2 pianos!!

 

In contrast, the Electro is mono timbral. It can only play one sound at a time.

 

aL

Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand.

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Originally posted by ProfD:

I've played the Nord Stage. It is a fantastic instrument for M&P and other sounds. The piano in it is a lot better than the Electro too.

 

I would rock it on a gig--no doubt. The only reason I would not buy one is because it is not multitimbral.

 

ProfD - The Nord Stage is multitimbral and just wanted to make sure you were aware of this (not sure from your sequence of words if you are referring to the Stage or the Electro). Stage is 6x multitimbral while Electro is only 1x multitimbral (actually 2x for organ mode).

 

Regards,

Eric

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Originally posted by suraci:

TaurusTee, your sentence structure speaks eloquently for your anti Nord position! Un "finished product.." not unlike your response to my thread!!!

 

ProfD. Yes, your reasoning makes sense. But it does not adequately explain why the Nord accomplishes this Buddhist ecstacy so often.

Nirvana or charlatanism, that is the question by this, 'been duped before', dude.

 

Thank you

I'm Swedish! How can I be anti-nord? :P

 

I just don't like this instrument they brought out. Feel free to mention enough reasons why I should give it a second try.

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M&P = meat and potatoes.

 

It IS multitimbral in the sense that it has 6 different audio engines that can be split or layered across the keyboard as you wish (split points are not 100% flexible.)

 

However, it is NOT completely flexible as a multitimbral controller for controlling a rack full of external modules.

Moe

---

 

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We are little by little making progress here. First Nord is not multi timbral then it is multitimbral, fine fine. i don't care so much about Nord's disability to control other outboard sounds because I still have a hunch this thing does so well with what it does do! Say that 3200 times, times Pi and call me in the morning for your next mantra.

 

Oh yes, M TaurusT, how can I be against Bush but "for" a Mercury Cougar? Or love a Mercedes and dislike Hitler? What does Swedishness have to do with the price of shekels on Pluto? According to my view, one's birthplace has little to do with their likes and dislikes, or their talents, or their sensitivities. Make sense? I like Nord you seem to not, fair? Do you like watching baseball, i could care less about the professional version of the American pastime, though it is fun to play.

Somehow I think you already know all this, so what's up?

The difference between what the most and the least learned people know is inexpressibly trivial in relation to that which is unknown
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I apologize for lack of clarity in my comment about the multitimbral nature of the Nord Stage.

 

I spoke in terms of the traditional performance mode (16 MIDI channels) found on most ROMplers.

 

Eric/Moe, can each of the 6 parts be assigned to a dedicated MIDI channel?

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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Hi suraci thanks again for the message. Question what do you think of the nord rackmount lead the $799.00 one on sweetwater.com do you think this will overlay synth sounds nicely.

 

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Originally posted by ProfD:

I apologize for lack of clarity in my comment about the multitimbral nature of the Nord Stage.

 

I spoke in terms of the traditional performance mode (16 MIDI channels) found on most ROMplers.

 

Eric/Moe, can each of the 6 parts be assigned to a dedicated MIDI channel?

Yes, they can! It is really cool and flexible when used with a second keyboard. Many players use the weighted Stage with an unweighted controller for the organ sounds. I do the opposite, with the unweighted Stage Compact and an 88-note controller for the Stage pianos.

 

Regards,

Eric

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