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recording --- midi VS. audio ???


HomeAmateur

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As I am finally trying to start recording some of my stuff, and figuring out Cubase LE, Im trying to figure out among many other things, whats the big difference between recording using midi vs. just direct audio ???

 

This is what I think I understand so far:

 

Using midi, you can easily asign what you have recorded, to a different instrument. --- Audio you can not.

 

Using midi, the files stored are much smaller.

 

....So, other then these two things are there other advantages to recording using midi vs just direct audio.

 

Ive been dabbling with just direct audio so far, and its working just fine, other then trying to get levels right and so forth.

 

Am I starting a bad habit by not recording the midi info ? Or is sticking to the audio just fine ???

 

 

Equip im using:

 

S90ES

Mackie 1202vlz

TC M300

dbx 231 eq

AT 2020 mic

PreSonus Firebox

Cubase LE

 

 

thanks....

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Use MIDI as an interim recording technique. You will eventually finalize in audio (of course).

 

The advantages (in a nutshell) are control. Control over the sound. Control over the notes (pitch, duration etc).

 

To accomplish the same feats with audio, you would have to redo your performance (either as a new take or a punch in).

 

Carl

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In addition, midi can be edited in many many useful ways. Performances that have a mistake in them (whether gross or subtle) can be easily fixed or enhanced). Editing midi also allows you add controller messages that can affect your performance in positive ways. Midi allows you to change the tempo without afftecting the performance. Midi is considerably less intensive on your hard drive and CPU than audio. Recording midi allows you to make an unlimited amount of changes in your work up until the final mix. Why be stuck with anything in an audio file that can't be changed when you can keep it flexible until the last minute with midi?

 

Generally, I stick with midi until the Final Mix, which I then record as audio.

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Originally posted by cnegrad:

In addition, midi can be edited in many many useful ways. Performances that have a mistake in them (whether gross or subtle) can be easily fixed or enhanced). Editing midi also allows you add controller messages that can affect your performance in positive ways. Midi allows you to change the tempo without afftecting the performance. Midi is considerably less intensive on your hard drive and CPU than audio. Recording midi allows you to make an unlimited amount of changes in your work up until the final mix. Why be stuck with anything in an audio file that can't be changed when you can keep it flexible until the last minute with midi?

 

Generally, I stick with midi until the Final Mix, which I then record as audio.

Exactly.

 

I judge it as akin to using a pencil to sketch, then going over it with ink when I'm satisfied.

 

Carl

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Originally posted by TaurusT:

Please recommend a program that records midi from the keyboard and doesn't autoquantize. I want to preserve my slowing down/delayed notes/speeding up etc. Its all expression that gets lost otherwise.

Most sequencing programs allow you to turn quantization on/off. Same should go for auto-quantize too.

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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Thanks or the input guys. I was sorta thinking all that. I was fiddling with recording with midi last night and what I also figured, and was right, midi is a bit more 'finicky' then audio.

 

I was having problems with notes remaining on (sustaining until I manually selected another patch). I beleive is has to do with my send/recieve channels not being set right or something.

 

Im sure Ill figure it out, just have to put the time in. The 'ole' click and see what happens method'. Of course I could actually read the manual, but who wants to do that :) .

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Originally posted by HomeAmateur:

I was having problems with notes remaining on (sustaining until I manually selected another patch). I beleive is has to do with my send/recieve channels not being set right or something.

I believe you are using the S90ES. Make sure it is in Performance mode.

 

Use one of the presets already set up as a MIDI template i.e. channels 1-16 are already separated. IIRC, on the S80, those preset templates were located in banks G and H.

 

Of course, you can change the patches for each channel according to your multitrack needs.

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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ProfD,

 

Performance mode OR Performance with Master mode 'on' OR Multi/Seq Play mode ??? ....

 

tooo many modes.... would be nice if just 'one' mode did it all...

 

 

Also, heres probably another dumb question. With midi, when recording the S90ES, do I have to use 'two' midi tracks/channels to achive stereo? Im guessing yes because I have left/right of synth into 3/4 of Firebox..... or no ???

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I LOVE recording in Midi. Obviously there's the fix a mistake benifit, but it doesn't even compare to the awesome ability to take that midi data and play it back with different sounds. If I'm not happy with the way my strings sound, I can change it right then and there without having to manually rerecord, I love it :)

"...Keytar in a heavy metal band is nothing more than window dressing" - Sven Golly

 

Cursed Eternity - My Band

Dick Ward - My Me

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Originally posted by HomeAmateur:

Performance mode OR Performance with Master mode 'on' OR Multi/Seq Play mode ??? ....

 

Also, heres probably another dumb question. With midi, when recording the S90ES, do I have to use 'two' midi tracks/channels to achive stereo? Im guessing yes because I have left/right of synth into 3/4 of Firebox..... or no ???

Not a dumb question at all. MIDI has been tricky since its inception in 1983. ;)

 

Use the Performance mode with Master mode off.

 

The multi/sequence play mode is for playing back SMFs. No good in your current situation.

 

MIDI does not record in 'stereo'. No need to record a PIANO on 2 MIDI tracks unless playing different parts.

 

Otherwise, MIDI sequencing is a merely a DATA recorder capturing the notes, controller messages, etc., played on the synth.

 

MIDI is playing back a stream of 0s and 1s using the patch you selected. As Dick stated, as a MIDI event, it can be changed.

 

Once you decide to convert those MIDI tracks into audio, then you get into whether or not you want to record stereo or mono.

 

Once converted to audio, that patch/sound is permanent. Interestingly, it becomes 0s and 1s in the digital domain. Audio is permanent unless you re-record it. :cool:

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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Sven,

 

Should I read part 5 first and work my way backwards, (seens its at the top of the page, or should I scroll down to part 1 and work my way up ? :)

 

 

Actually, thanks for the link.....

 

 

Also, are you feeling ok ? your post didnt seem very derogatory or frustrated or 'pent-up-anger-ish' at all .... Are you not yourself today ??? Is there anything we can do for you ? ;)

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Originally posted by HomeAmateur:

Should I read part 5 first and work my way backwards, (seens its at the top of the page, or should I scroll down to part 1 and work my way up ? :)

Let common sense prevail... ;)

 

 

Actually, thanks for the link.....

You're very welcome. :evil:

 

Oh, and what is it they say about looking a gift horse in the mouth? :rolleyes:

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Originally posted by HomeAmateur:

ProfD,

 

Performance mode OR Performance with Master mode 'on' OR Multi/Seq Play mode ??? ....

 

tooo many modes.... would be nice if just 'one' mode did it all...

 

 

Also, heres probably another dumb question. With midi, when recording the S90ES, do I have to use 'two' midi tracks/channels to achive stereo? Im guessing yes because I have left/right of synth into 3/4 of Firebox..... or no ???

On the S90ES you will want to be in Multi/Seq Mode. This gives you 16 MIDI channels as opposed to 4 in Performance mode.

 

No you don't need to send two MIDI channels to trigger a stereo synth patch. The S90ES is sending everything out the stereo outputs.

 

Busch.

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Personally I prefer to do all my Midi recording and editing in my Kurzweil, then record the audio into the computer. The sequencer buit into the K series synths is very easy and intuitive to use. I have one in my JV series synth but prefer the Kurzweil one...I just use channel 15 on the Kurzweil to control the Roland. Then audio out to a Mackie mixer and into the computer for recording and manipulation.

 

Once I get those tracks recorded into the computer(usually just the basics) everything else I record is direct audio live, whether it's from the keyboards or softsynths and softsamplers, though the softsynths and softsamplers actually are recording Midi data till you mix them down to audio ;)

 

Darkon the Incandescent

http://www.billheins.com/

 

 

 

Hail Vibrania!

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I will say this about recording ideas in audio, it doesn't change. Your ideas are locked down like you originally intended. Recording in MIDI is convienient for editing and all, but it is dependant on a bunch of factors. Maybe you didn't recording the patch change, volumes could be different, synths might have changed. I used to use MIDI exclusively, but got so frustrated by the relativity of it all. Coming back to an idea six months later and thinking, I know this sounded better/different. I now, most often, record both MIDI and audio simultaneously, using the audio to build scratch tracks and the MIDI to come back to if I need to rerecord something or refine a passage.

 

Busch.

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Yes, can be a headache when using different hardware pieces, but not with working with vstis in a sequencer program. A project saves everthing just like it was setup. :)

 

 

Originally posted by burningbusch:

I will say this about recording ideas in audio, it doesn't change. Your ideas are locked down like you originally intended. Recording in MIDI is convienient for editing and all, but it is dependant on a bunch of factors. Maybe you didn't recording the patch change, volumes could be different, synths might have changed. I used to use MIDI exclusively, but got so frustrated by the relativity of it all. Coming back to an idea six months later and thinking, I know this sounded better/different. I now, most often, record both MIDI and audio simultaneously, using the audio to build scratch tracks and the MIDI to come back to if I need to rerecord something or refine a passage.

 

Busch.

"It is a danger to create something and risk rejection. It is a greater danger to create nothing and allow mediocrity to rule."

"You owe it to us all to get on with what you're good at." W.H. Auden

 

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Originally posted by Krakit:

Use MIDI as an interim recording technique. You will eventually finalize in audio (of course).

 

The advantages (in a nutshell) are control. Control over the sound. Control over the notes (pitch, duration etc).

 

To accomplish the same feats with audio, you would have to redo your performance (either as a new take or a punch in).

 

Carl

I agree. I try and do as much on Midi as possible before recording. Inevitably there is always audio editing to be done. I think its also much easier to fix mistakes in Midi before you record. Sometimes some mistakes aren't fixable once your in audio.

Begin the day with a friendly voice A companion, unobtrusive

- Rush

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