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Chromatic tones in improv . . . .


shniggens

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Originally posted by Jazz+:

What happened to the chromatic tones in improv topic?

Well I already laid out my points on that and no one responded. What do you think Jazz+?

Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1

 

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Originally posted by Jazz+:

What happened to the chromatic tones in improv topic?

It's like Campbell's Chunky Soup: It's all in there. :D

 

Nevertheless, we're dealing with additional elements besides the chromatic movement.

 

Let's stir things up a bit, and introduce non-western melody and harmony to this discussion. :wave:

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.

 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

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Hey, you all know about the "10 note chromatic scale" that Chick Corea and many other use? It's a covenient fingering on piano and sounds more intersting then a full 12 note chromatic scale.

 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

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dp2, great idea - I studied Arabic music for a little while and got a lot out of that. I know that Trane gathered scales, modes and other melodic units from around the world, as well as he could.

 

I think you need to be able to hear 'out' before you can play it. As I posted before, that out-tension has to be something that you enjoy.

 

Having said that (because I think that's what the initial post applied to); the use of chromatic notes within a phrase is not always to create an 'out' feeling - often it's just to create a smootehr melodic line.

 

I know the topic veered off topic, but if you pick through it there are plenty of great ideas and advice regarding the original question.

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Random thoughts:

 

triplet eighth note chromatic scale get you from there to an octave above there in exactly a measure.

 

Chick Corea's C, Bb, B, A, Bb, Ab... is a useful variant; up and/or down.

 

Base tone is also useful C, C#, C, D, C, Eb, C, E...

 

I was taught an alternate fingering for the chromatic that has stuck with me. Starting on C (ascending for two octaves) it would be 4, 3, 4, 3, 3, 4, 4. This lends itself to an interesting exercise. If you start on let's say D, with the left hand desending and the right hand ascending chromatically your fingering should be the same in both hands.

 

"Flight of the Bumblebee"

 

Busch.

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Jazz+, the original question had to do not just about Chromatics in improv but Shniggens problem with making the chromatics not sound too dissonant. And that's why I talked about the explanation of chord tones on the strong beat since that keeps the sound inside even when non chord tones are used on the weak beats. That in my mind explains why he feels it is dissonant. He hasn't yet learned where to put the chromatics, which is to join chord tones (in an inside sound).

Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1

 

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Originally posted by burningbusch:

Jazzwee, you're right and I subscribe to that notion within jazz. But beaware that in rock, for example, it's common to lay down a blazingly fast blues runs without regard for rhythm, much less the intricacies of which beat which note falls on.

 

Busch.

That's interesting. How is that done? Or is there something specific I can listen to that demonstrates that? Thanks Busch.

Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1

 

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I think I've heard that too, but I always thought of it as another form of polyrhythm--basically a cluster of notes played within a certain amount of time. Although this isn't a Rock example per se, I recall Freddie Hubbard doing something like this in his intro to Red Clay.

 

Written, the figure he played looks much uglier (and more difficult) than it actually is when you hear the it. I learned it both ways. I picked it up by ear first--because it was easier (so I'm little lazy sometimes). :) Afterwards, I learned the figure again--as if it were my first time. I recorded both versions, and compared them. I did it over and over until I got the two to match. That way my eyes could read what my ears were already hearing.

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