Good Acoustic Pianos

[Jazzwee]

orangefunk, the bass on a U1 is certainly adequate. Yes a U3 has more bass but it's nowhere near the sound of grand's bass in any case. I think I could have gotten used to a U1's bass.

 

My only point is that the difference in price between a U1 (or equivalent) and U3 is not that much so why not upgrade?

[K K]

Jazzwee, here's what I have in my old 1994 piano book in french, so I roughly translated the text myself. The parentheses are not in the text, but my attempts to clarify.

 

Yamaha U3 S (hopefully the S is your model) :

 

A typical choice amongst conservatories and professional musicians. With its new bridge (that's the word for that wooden part on violins, not sure if the same in pianos) for the medium register, now narrower to give better resonance, the U3 S expresses itself with a nice vitality. The sound is slightly nasal, missing a notch of roundness (in french about pianos, it means you can figure out a certain unbalance between the bass/mid/treble registers), but have very good dynamics and expressive clarity. It's a piano for profesionals as it offers a precise, performing and responsive action. The bass in Chopin's Rondo (the piece played as a test on the instrument by the musical reporter) was slightly too clear.

 

Weight : 241 kg

132 x 153 x 65 cm

 

Voilà for this 1994 review.

[orangefunk]

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

My only point is that the difference in price between a U1 (or equivalent) and U3 is not that much so why not upgrade?

I was thinking the increase in size meant an increase in volume too... as I live in a flat I'mkeen to keep it down.. I have never played a U3 or U1 for that matter so have no idea what they are like volume wise.

[Jazzwee]

Originally posted by orangefunk:

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

My only point is that the difference in price between a U1 (or equivalent) and U3 is not that much so why not upgrade?

I was thinking the increase in size meant an increase in volume too... as I live in a flat I'mkeen to keep it down.. I have never played a U3 or U1 for that matter so have no idea what they are like volume wise.

I don't think that the volume of a U1 vs. U3 would not be that much different. However the tone is a little different. I thought the same as you before but it does not really appear like that in real life. It just gives a little deeper sound and seems to affect many of the other notes too, not just the bass.

[Jazzwee]

Originally posted by Cydonia:

Jazzwee, here's what I have in my old 1994 piano book in french, so I roughly translated the text myself. The parentheses are not in the text, but my attempts to clarify.

 

Yamaha U3 S (hopefully the S is your model) :

 

A typical choice amongst conservatories and professional musicians. With its new bridge (that's the word for that wooden part on violins, not sure if the same in pianos) for the medium register, now narrower to give better resonance, the U3 S expresses itself with a nice vitality. The sound is slightly nasal, missing a notch of roundness (in french about pianos, it means you can figure out a certain unbalance between the bass/mid/treble registers), but have very good dynamics and expressive clarity. It's a piano for profesionals as it offers a precise, performing and responsive action. The bass in Chopin's Rondo (the piece played as a test on the instrument by the musical reporter) was slightly too clear.

 

Weight : 241 kg

132 x 153 x 65 cm

 

Voilà for this 1994 review.

Cydonia, the "S" is for the Sostenuto pedal I believe. I don't have that. I just have a practice pedal. The S model is fairly rare and I think it was a $2k option when new.

 

When I was reading around in Pianoworld.com, I sensed that classical musicians wanted more overtones and less bright of a sound for their type of music. For jazz though, it seems to me that Yamahas are preferred for the exact opposite reason (less overtones and brighter).

 

Cydonia, your review was 1994. I presume they were reviewing a 1994 or thereabouts model? I wonder if someone ever did a review of the same model over the years. As I mentioned earlier, this one I got has a new scale, identical to the 1994 model or the current model. I wonder how it compares to the 1980 models for example?

 

I can't wait to play on this new piano as my last piano was a really low grade Korean made model. I hated playing on it. Probably why my technique sucks!

[K K]

Wow, didn't know it costed so much just to add a sustenuto. About classical pianists, it's just the same as in any genre, you have people who want metallic sound, others a mellow sound, others balanced registers, etc. Maybe generally it's true that jazz pianists prefer a more bright and percussive sound, probably so they can be heard more easily in band situations.

 

Yep the book I have was about pianos recently released at the time. I'm not sure though what you mean about a scale (sorry for my poor english). If it's the internal wooden piece at the heart for the piano resonance, then I suppose the U3 without S and with S could be pretty similar in that aspect, since in the review they say it's new.

[marino]

Back home (late night).

 

To clarify: It's a while I don't play a U1, but if memory serves me well, I *much* prefer the P121N. In fact, it was a while I wasn't so impressed by an upright piano. The keyboard is deep but quick (no "Yamaha lightness" here), the sound is warm and pleasant, the bass register is tight, and the dynamic range is very good. It just fits my fingers beautifully.

On the U series pianos I've played, I found the sound harsher and the action quite a bit lighter than on this one.

 

Of course, all individual pianos are different, and you should spend a good amount of time with one before committing. But if it's of any indication, my school got two P121Ns, I've played both, and they feel remarkably consistent to me. In other words, no big difference of any kind between them.

[Jazzwee]

Marino, just tonight I happened to play a U1 at my kid's music school. The keys were heavy actually. Tone was not too good. This of course is a piano used many hours a day being pounded on by students so the hammers are probably hardened. This is probably the heaviest keys I've felt from a Yamaha.

 

In the next room, sits a U3. Again this piano is beat up on daily for years. It has the lightest keys I have ever felt. So I thought this was the Yamaha standard before.

 

The U3 I purchased does not have super light keys. In fact I thought it felt heavier than a restored Steinway, I tried next to it.

 

It really boggles my mind how big the differences even in the same model. Perhaps so Piano tech in the forum can explain this. So probably some of these differences come from regulation and 'voicing' the hammers.

 

The P121N most likely has the same scale like I said as the U1, if it is the same size piano. The "institutional" style pianos differ from the U1's typically in the case only. But it does have a different soundboard so I expect that to change the sound.

 

Cydonia, the Scale is the design of the cast iron "plate" which holds the strings, the design of the layout of the strings, the design of the hammers. It is this basic design that gives the character of the piano. Each particular piano manufacturer has their unique scales for each piano size. This design includes determining the length of each string, the various angles of the string (like bass strings are overlayed over treble strings at an angle usually). Since it is risky to redesign this, apparently piano makers just move the "scale" design around different cabinet cases.

 

The next issue that affects the sound is the soundboard and rim. The choice of wood is critical to the tone. So the P121N being apparently a european model with european spruce, would be expected to have a darker sound similiar to other european pianos since the wood of the soundboard is the primary determinant of this. Japanese brands use a different wood which accounts for a lot of the brightness.

 

Cydonia you also mentioned the bridge. This would be similar to the guitar bridge as it is the wooden piece that sits on the top of the guitar wood and when the strings vibrates, it vibrates with the whole guitar shell. The bridge is in contact with the soundboard and that's what makes the piano sound together.

 

Amazing stuff. I'm no expert on this but I learned a lot from reading Larry Fine's Piano Book. All this is explained in excruciating detail.

[marino]

Yeah, a different soundboard can completely change the tone of a piano. The P121Ns at school certainly sound darker and warmer than any U series I've ever played.

 

And of course, two pianos that are the same make, model and year can sound wildly different. There are just too many factors at play: Wood, hammer hardness, regulation, type and state of felts, manteinance...

[K K]

Jazzwee, I think I could name most of the piano parts in french, but I don't know the english terms for many of them. A scale, huh? So you're gonna practice jazz scales on your new piano?

 

And the temperament? Will you tune it to equal temp, Valotti, Arabic or meantone? That's one of the problems with acoustic pianos. No intonation selector.

[Jazzwee]

Originally posted by Cydonia:

Jazzwee, I think I could name most of the piano parts in french, but I don't know the english terms for many of them. A scale, huh? So you're gonna practice jazz scales on your new piano?

 

And the temperament? Will you tune it to equal temp, Valotti, Arabic or meantone? That's one of the problems with acoustic pianos. No intonation selector.

Yeah so what came first? The Piano Scale (as in scale design), or Piano Scale (CDEFGABC,etc.)?

 

Is the french equivalent equally confusing? Piano is scheduled to arrive in an hour...(exciting!).

[Jazzwee]

BTW in the Larry Fine Piano Book, the T121 is the Institutional version of the U1. The innards are U1 parts. So I presume P121 is just a designator for the european soundboard.

[Chris Link]

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

Piano is scheduled to arrive in an hour...(exciting!).

Congratulations! I'm sure you'll both be very happy.

[Jazzwee]

Originally posted by misterdregs:

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

Piano is scheduled to arrive in an hour...(exciting!).

Congratulations! I'm sure you'll both be very happy.

Thanks misterdregs. I'm sure the piano doesn't care who owns it. I on the other hand am very happy!