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My son


Budice

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OK I admit I know virtually nothing about keyboard playing but am a lover of all kinds of music and have spent my life wishing (musically speaking) if only...

My son though is very keen (with a lot of encouragement from me) on Jazz playing with his new teacher. It is definately time to upgrade from his Casio learner (with lights on - sorry...) to something much more suitable. Initially I was looking at and waiting for the realease of the Roland E60 (76 keys) but now I am beginning to think the Kawai MP4 or the Yamaha CP33 would be more suitable. I have a budget of £1000. Your comments and help would be very much appreciated.

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Instead of making a specific recommendation, I'm going to throw a couple of generalizations out there.

 

- Make sure your son enjoys the feel of the keybed.

- Make sure your son likes the sound of the pianos in the keyboard.

- Make sure to actually take any opportunity you can to have your son play and listen to the keyboard, and not just go on the specifications you see in a catalog or web site.

 

Above all, congrats for supporting your kid's musical endeavors. That's more important than any model of keyboard. :thu:

 

- Jeff

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You might also consider putting an acoustic piano on the list. For a kid, it will be important. Most of the serious players will use the digital as one for convenience but will have an acoustic. If this is the only instrument (I assume because you only have a Casio), I'd really plan on acoustic before your kid gets to be too serious about this. You can find a real piano for $1000.

Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1

 

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Budice,

I agree with Jazzwee, get your boy an acoustic if possible. You can find good used pianos without knocking yourself out - they are all over the place - especially for a thousand pounds. It will never become obsolete and you won't regret it. Good luck to you and your boy.

Regards,

Joe

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Thanks for the thoughtful replys and kind words guys.

The problem for us is that with an acoustic piano it would take up too much room. It therefore makes it a difficult option for us.

Allow me to show my ignorance further. If we went the 'electric' way are not all these keyboards trying to replicate a true piano sound ie a grand piano? Hence Jeff your posting confuses me. (Am I missing the point here?). Or should I be looking for a keyboard that produces a multifaceted nice set of sounds. I am going to a local store with my son tomorrow and dont want to end up ultimately with a complete Dodo.

Please go easy on me before you cut and paste my posting apart and thanks once again for your responces.

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Budice,

I think Jeff meant that digitals will have:

a. more than one piano sound

b. sounds that differ from other digitals

 

For a learner it may not be a big deal. The piano sounds are sampled, so, theoretically, there are as many possible digital piano sounds as there are acoustic pianos.

 

Regards,

Joe

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Budice,

 

If you can't fit an acoustic piano, then you can't, and that's that. However, a good upright really doesn't take much more room than a digital and stand.

 

For the serious jazz student, there's really no substitute for the real thing. The mechanics of keys moving hammers which hit strings plays a really big part in serious piano technique. Not that I myself know much about good technique... :rolleyes:

 

I would strongly suggest that you stop and really think about whether you can find space for a good upright piano before you make a final purchase.

 

This is all assuming that your son wants to be a serious student of jazz piano. If he's really more interested in being a general keyboard player than a pianist, then a digital is just fine.

 

Good luck!

 

--Dave

Make my funk the P-funk.

I wants to get funked up.

 

My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/

 

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Let me add my voice to the choir of advices for a real acoustic piano, especially if your kid is serious about jazz playing. A digital (any digital) doesn't have all the nuances of a good acoustic.

 

However, with a limited budget, you're probably going to afford just a so-so upright. Now, if given a choice (for a kid) between a battered upright, with a dull sound and very difficult to tune, and a good digital like a Kawai MP8, I'm afraid I would choose the latter. Just a thought.

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I agree with Marino's 2nd paragraph--for £1000 you can buy a good, versatile digital that admittedly will not feel exactly like the real thing but (1) can be carried to gigs/jam sessions, (2) does not need to be tuned twice per year, and (3) can be played quietly or with headphones.

Yamaha P2 acoustic, Yamaha P120 digital, Nord Electro 3HP, QSC K10.

FOR SALE: Nord Electro 2-61.

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Take the acoustic if possible. There is no substitute for the feel of a real piano. There is nothing quite like it. I'm sure the majority of people on this forum first learned with an acoustic, regardless of what genre they started with. However if u must go digital go for Kawai. Make sure that your son hears the other possibilities too, as different companies have different sounds for their pianos.
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I agree 100% with Marino. Yes, there's a big difference between a digital and a real piano, but you have to get a pretty good real piano before it's better for learning on than a decent digital (including the Casio Privia and similar models).

 

I've played a lot of crappy real pianos in my life. They're still fun to play -- every real piano has its own personality. But with most pianos available under $1000, the personality would be pretty strong and not particularly versatile. Better, IMHO, to learn on a digital while also finding as many different real pianos to play on. There are often plenty to find; at school, nearby colleges/universities, hotels, etc. This varies a lot with location, of course, and a college town is generally best.

 

You don't need the ideal to learn to play well, and IMHO learning to play on the grand-like action of a decent digital is better than learning on an upright action. I say this having learned on an upright.

 

Forget the real pianos for now. If your son is serious, he'll find 'em to play and won't suffer from learning on a digital. At least, won't suffer as much as he would from learning on a typical upright.

 

As much as I love all the folks here on this forum, I have to admit we're a bunch of acoustic snobs. There's good basis for it, but really, a decent digital is far more practical and a far better value.

 

Pick out a piano by having your son play them, with the budget in mind of course. Also, keep in mind that technology is still getting better fast, and prices are coming down. Pretty soon, if not already, the biggest costs will be in the weighted keyboard and not the electronics, even for pianos with hundreds of megabytes of memory. (Hopefully they'll start using the same kind of memory cards we use in digital cameras.)

 

So, the piano you pick out today doesn't have to be the piano he plays for the next 10 years. If he's serious, in 3 to 5 years it's likely he can save up his lawn-mowing money (or whatever) and buy a much better one at lower cost.

 

Just make sure it's a fully-weighted keyboard, and that as mentioned above you consider the price of the amp & speaker cabinet. For this reason, the better Casio pianos with built-in speakers make a good system; you can start out using the built-in speakers (which aren't great) and add better ones later. They'd make a great Christmas or birthday present.

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Thanks once again for your replys you certainly have given me other options to consider...

I went today with my son to our local large store and tried out the Yamaha CP33 and to my untrained ears it sounded very nice too! They will price match to £785. This of course got me thinking about speakers. They offered me a "deal" on some Roland DM10's (quite small looking really). Do you think they are any good ie match the potential of the keyboard or can you recommend any others.

My son of course wants the keyboard - but he would would't he? All options now are open and I am racking my brains pondering..... I will of course keep you kind folk who have taken the effort to help posted.

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Whether you choose to buy a real piano or not, please understand the size facts though. The width of a full 88 digital keyboard is at least as long as a real piano (many times it is more -- like the S90ES - because of additional controls). The depth of a digital with a stand, speakers, and the fact that you can't put it close to the wall due to the wires in the back might even exceed an upright.

 

Yes a good used upright is more expensive than a new digital. But for learning, you should be able to get a fairly nice upright for the price of a Kawai MP8. The reason for the suggestion of an acoustic relates to your statement of seriousness of your son. The more serious he is, the more I'd push an acoustic.

 

The pianos under $1K are probably mostly junk and I'd pick a digital over those.

Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1

 

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I think there are available good older uprights in that price range, especially a private sale. The $1K range will not usually yield any good uprights. BTW - I just sold my old upright and am looking for a new one to upgrade to so I happen to be looking at upright prices.

 

I'm looking at Craigslist and I find

 

Baldwin (1979) $650

Yamaha M2 for $1900

Yamaha P1 $1500

Kawai NS10 $1975

Kawai $2000

 

Brand new Yamaha upright $2800

Yamaha U2 $2700

Kawai 53" $2720

Yamaha U3 $4000

 

You see the range here? Balwdin, Yamaha and Kawais would be considered very good brands. Many people don't appreciate pianos and look at them as just furniture.

 

Anyway these prices are Los Angeles prices. Can't imagine they'd be too different in the UK though.

Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1

 

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