Budice Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 OK I admit I know virtually nothing about keyboard playing but am a lover of all kinds of music and have spent my life wishing (musically speaking) if only... My son though is very keen (with a lot of encouragement from me) on Jazz playing with his new teacher. It is definately time to upgrade from his Casio learner (with lights on - sorry...) to something much more suitable. Initially I was looking at and waiting for the realease of the Roland E60 (76 keys) but now I am beginning to think the Kawai MP4 or the Yamaha CP33 would be more suitable. I have a budget of £1000. Your comments and help would be very much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Instead of making a specific recommendation, I'm going to throw a couple of generalizations out there. - Make sure your son enjoys the feel of the keybed. - Make sure your son likes the sound of the pianos in the keyboard. - Make sure to actually take any opportunity you can to have your son play and listen to the keyboard, and not just go on the specifications you see in a catalog or web site. Above all, congrats for supporting your kid's musical endeavors. That's more important than any model of keyboard. - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 You might also consider putting an acoustic piano on the list. For a kid, it will be important. Most of the serious players will use the digital as one for convenience but will have an acoustic. If this is the only instrument (I assume because you only have a Casio), I'd really plan on acoustic before your kid gets to be too serious about this. You can find a real piano for $1000. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe P Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Budice, I agree with Jazzwee, get your boy an acoustic if possible. You can find good used pianos without knocking yourself out - they are all over the place - especially for a thousand pounds. It will never become obsolete and you won't regret it. Good luck to you and your boy. Regards, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budice Posted September 29, 2006 Author Share Posted September 29, 2006 Thanks for the thoughtful replys and kind words guys. The problem for us is that with an acoustic piano it would take up too much room. It therefore makes it a difficult option for us. Allow me to show my ignorance further. If we went the 'electric' way are not all these keyboards trying to replicate a true piano sound ie a grand piano? Hence Jeff your posting confuses me. (Am I missing the point here?). Or should I be looking for a keyboard that produces a multifaceted nice set of sounds. I am going to a local store with my son tomorrow and dont want to end up ultimately with a complete Dodo. Please go easy on me before you cut and paste my posting apart and thanks once again for your responces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe P Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Budice, I think Jeff meant that digitals will have: a. more than one piano sound b. sounds that differ from other digitals For a learner it may not be a big deal. The piano sounds are sampled, so, theoretically, there are as many possible digital piano sounds as there are acoustic pianos. Regards, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 The electronic pianos still do not play and sound 100% like an acoustic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pierce Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Budice, If you can't fit an acoustic piano, then you can't, and that's that. However, a good upright really doesn't take much more room than a digital and stand. For the serious jazz student, there's really no substitute for the real thing. The mechanics of keys moving hammers which hit strings plays a really big part in serious piano technique. Not that I myself know much about good technique... I would strongly suggest that you stop and really think about whether you can find space for a good upright piano before you make a final purchase. This is all assuming that your son wants to be a serious student of jazz piano. If he's really more interested in being a general keyboard player than a pianist, then a digital is just fine. Good luck! --Dave Make my funk the P-funk. I wants to get funked up. My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Let me add my voice to the choir of advices for a real acoustic piano, especially if your kid is serious about jazz playing. A digital (any digital) doesn't have all the nuances of a good acoustic. However, with a limited budget, you're probably going to afford just a so-so upright. Now, if given a choice (for a kid) between a battered upright, with a dull sound and very difficult to tune, and a good digital like a Kawai MP8, I'm afraid I would choose the latter. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayvon Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Both those keyboards are great but be sure to budget in for some decent monitor speakers so you can benefit from the money you're spending on the keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_D_in_MD Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 I agree with Marino's 2nd paragraph--for £1000 you can buy a good, versatile digital that admittedly will not feel exactly like the real thing but (1) can be carried to gigs/jam sessions, (2) does not need to be tuned twice per year, and (3) can be played quietly or with headphones. Yamaha P2 acoustic, Yamaha P120 digital, Nord Electro 3HP, QSC K10. FOR SALE: Nord Electro 2-61. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moog_Man Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Take the acoustic if possible. There is no substitute for the feel of a real piano. There is nothing quite like it. I'm sure the majority of people on this forum first learned with an acoustic, regardless of what genre they started with. However if u must go digital go for Kawai. Make sure that your son hears the other possibilities too, as different companies have different sounds for their pianos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 I agree 100% with Marino. Yes, there's a big difference between a digital and a real piano, but you have to get a pretty good real piano before it's better for learning on than a decent digital (including the Casio Privia and similar models). I've played a lot of crappy real pianos in my life. They're still fun to play -- every real piano has its own personality. But with most pianos available under $1000, the personality would be pretty strong and not particularly versatile. Better, IMHO, to learn on a digital while also finding as many different real pianos to play on. There are often plenty to find; at school, nearby colleges/universities, hotels, etc. This varies a lot with location, of course, and a college town is generally best. You don't need the ideal to learn to play well, and IMHO learning to play on the grand-like action of a decent digital is better than learning on an upright action. I say this having learned on an upright. Forget the real pianos for now. If your son is serious, he'll find 'em to play and won't suffer from learning on a digital. At least, won't suffer as much as he would from learning on a typical upright. As much as I love all the folks here on this forum, I have to admit we're a bunch of acoustic snobs. There's good basis for it, but really, a decent digital is far more practical and a far better value. Pick out a piano by having your son play them, with the budget in mind of course. Also, keep in mind that technology is still getting better fast, and prices are coming down. Pretty soon, if not already, the biggest costs will be in the weighted keyboard and not the electronics, even for pianos with hundreds of megabytes of memory. (Hopefully they'll start using the same kind of memory cards we use in digital cameras.) So, the piano you pick out today doesn't have to be the piano he plays for the next 10 years. If he's serious, in 3 to 5 years it's likely he can save up his lawn-mowing money (or whatever) and buy a much better one at lower cost. Just make sure it's a fully-weighted keyboard, and that as mentioned above you consider the price of the amp & speaker cabinet. For this reason, the better Casio pianos with built-in speakers make a good system; you can start out using the built-in speakers (which aren't great) and add better ones later. They'd make a great Christmas or birthday present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budice Posted September 30, 2006 Author Share Posted September 30, 2006 Thanks once again for your replys you certainly have given me other options to consider... I went today with my son to our local large store and tried out the Yamaha CP33 and to my untrained ears it sounded very nice too! They will price match to £785. This of course got me thinking about speakers. They offered me a "deal" on some Roland DM10's (quite small looking really). Do you think they are any good ie match the potential of the keyboard or can you recommend any others. My son of course wants the keyboard - but he would would't he? All options now are open and I am racking my brains pondering..... I will of course keep you kind folk who have taken the effort to help posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Whether you choose to buy a real piano or not, please understand the size facts though. The width of a full 88 digital keyboard is at least as long as a real piano (many times it is more -- like the S90ES - because of additional controls). The depth of a digital with a stand, speakers, and the fact that you can't put it close to the wall due to the wires in the back might even exceed an upright. Yes a good used upright is more expensive than a new digital. But for learning, you should be able to get a fairly nice upright for the price of a Kawai MP8. The reason for the suggestion of an acoustic relates to your statement of seriousness of your son. The more serious he is, the more I'd push an acoustic. The pianos under $1K are probably mostly junk and I'd pick a digital over those. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budice Posted September 30, 2006 Author Share Posted September 30, 2006 Thanks Jazzwee but the price of the Kawai MP8 in the UK equates to well over 3000 US Dollars and therefore well exceeds my budget. My upper limit is approx $1900. That being the case does the same apply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 I think there are available good older uprights in that price range, especially a private sale. The $1K range will not usually yield any good uprights. BTW - I just sold my old upright and am looking for a new one to upgrade to so I happen to be looking at upright prices. I'm looking at Craigslist and I find Baldwin (1979) $650 Yamaha M2 for $1900 Yamaha P1 $1500 Kawai NS10 $1975 Kawai $2000 Brand new Yamaha upright $2800 Yamaha U2 $2700 Kawai 53" $2720 Yamaha U3 $4000 You see the range here? Balwdin, Yamaha and Kawais would be considered very good brands. Many people don't appreciate pianos and look at them as just furniture. Anyway these prices are Los Angeles prices. Can't imagine they'd be too different in the UK though. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyman_sam Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 If you have your own independant house, I'd recommend getting an acoustic piano for 500 bux. There's a LOT of nice pianos for 500 bux, believe it or not. Dont follow me....i'm lost too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyman_sam Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 BTW, if you cant afford the name brand ones, dont worry about it. There's kimballs and kohlers that sell for dime a dozen, and they're quite good too, if not better than the name brand ones. Dont follow me....i'm lost too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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