behringer what's going on???

[superpowter77]

I'm scared of behringer products now. I just can't afford to fail on my presentations at church. They would not allow me to play anymore if something happens during a mass celebration or a concert!

I own a mackie vlz1402 pro, great unit but running out of xlr inputs, and was looking to get a cheap and decent upgrade.

Now I'm thinking to save some money and try to get a mackie onyx 1640(too overpriced , it's gonna hurt me this time)

thanks a lot guys!

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by Bill H.:

My UB1832 mixer I bought last year lasted a couple of months. I recently bought their calibration mic for my Driverack. It's less than half what the official DBX version cost. DOA. For those of you who have had success with your Behringer equipment, congratulations. As for me, I'm done.

Exactly.

 

Please folks - this thread has turned into personal attacks on our fellow forumites and who wants to read that?

 

I had a problem with Panasonic when I was 16 years old. A stereo system I purchased had a crack in the circuit board and I couldn't get any repair shop in the area to fix it correctly. So I packed it up and sent it to Panasonic in Atlanta. I documented the times I had attempted to get it repaired and got the Better Business Bureau involved.

 

I received a full refund for my efforts.

 

I think it would be more productive for us - that's me, you, and everyone else on this forum - to post the facts. No personal attacks of flames.

 

If you've had good experiences and/or paid a good price for a piece of equipment, tell us about it.

 

If you purchased something that broke, sounds bad, or you can't get repaired or your questions answered from customer service, tell us about it.

 

But if you've never had one-on-one experience with a product and you're just going on hearsay, then what's the point?

 

If you clarify your statement such as - "I've never compared my ANRD speakers with an FBX system in a setting that demanded lots of decibels. I've heard that the ANRD is just as capable, but I really don't know first-hand," that would be OK.

 

But to say that the ANRD speakers are advertised as being 55 to 16K ±3 dB and everything sounds great through them. I'm curious why more musicians don't buy them is an unsubstantiated statement. Making statements like this without a comparative reference says nothing.

 

We all know that, in real-world performance of speaker systems, there is a great deal of difference between specifications in a marketing brochure and what your ears tell you.

 

Personal flames are best left on the playground, folks. Let's remember that we're all brothers and sisters in music here. We are not the enemy. Try to lighten up a little and enjoy each other.

 

Who wants a beer?

 

 

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,702256,00.jpg

 

Tom

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?:

Please folks - this thread has turned into personal attacks on our fellow forumites and who wants to read that?

I don't.

 

Gentlemen...you are, of course, welcome to express your opinions, but I do draw the line when it comes to personal attacks.

 

I'd be most grateful if it stopped right now.

 

Thanks!

 

dB

[Griffinator]

You're absolutely right, guys, and for my part here, I apologize. I'm not really sure what set me off last night, but there's really no excuse for the caustic comments.

[Mark Schmieder]

I currently own two Behringer products, based on recommendations from people who claimed they are of pro quality. They aren't, but are great bang for buck. I don't settle for anything less than perfection -- otherwise I would recommend Behringer with no hesitation at all, as you get better quality and features throughout much of their range.

 

The 8 channel digital expansion unit hasn't been used yet so I can't say. I didn't want to spend the big bucks on the PreSonus unit, until doing a drums session again (later this year) and finding out whether the Behringer is good enough for the drum mics (everything else goes into my MOTU 828 mk II). But now that MOTU has announced an affordable 8 channel digital expansion unit, I may simply upgrade to that next year.

 

The 16 channel rack mount line mixer is crap. But it's good enough for most people, who typically aren't as picky as I am. In fact it is better than the Rolls that I borrowed from a friend before deciding it wasn't good enough. The problem is in the cohesion of the bass, as well as a somewhat harsh treble. Most people couldn't tell the difference, but I can (I have Golden Ears, due to so many years in the acoustic music and classical music worlds as well as lots of experience in the studio). I am certainly not mentioning this to brag, but instead to point out that the Behringer line mixer is a wonderful bargain and for live situations is probably a great tool as it also has individual mutes (not all do).

 

Yet my Ashly (at 5x the cost) is transparent, and the Behringer is not. But for $100, I can't complain. The Ashly goes in my prime rack and the Behringer goes in my secondary rack of gear that doesn't make it to every concert. Next year I will upgrade it to a second Ashly LX308B.

 

I bought and then resold the V-Amp Bass Rack Pro earlier this year. Best amp modeling I've heard yet for the bass -- perhaps even better than the SansSamp PSA 1.1 (which has cheap knobs that I don't trust). Certainly better than the Line6 crap that colours the sound so much I can't imagine why people like it (but then not everyone is looking for transparency as I am). Even better for guitar. Maybe the Vox ToneLab, which is overkill for me (for guitar -- not really applicable to bass), is better still. I liked the ToneLab (or is it ToneWorks -- I get the Korg/Vox differentiation confused, and they are effectively the same company now) in the store as it was transparent in bypass mode and was easy to get musical settings for amp modeling and other effects. I highly recommend the V-Amp Bass Pro; it just isn't for me because I'm a purist.

 

My test of any equipment is whether bypass mode degrades the signal. That's my bottom line. Anything that degrades the signal even when bypassed, gets tossed. Most equipment does degrade the signal, and this is why I keep going on about my pickiness and "Golden Ears" because I want people to understand that Behringer does NOT deserve the bad rap it gets and is a wonderful buy for MOST PEOPLE. But it isn't "high end" -- and is priced accordingly! What more could you ask for?

 

It's a great way to fill a niche in your setup, or a placeholder so to speak, even if you are a dedicated High End snob like me.

[burningbusch]

Want a transparent line mixer? This will do nicely. Not cheap. Well cheap for Speck.

 

Speck X.Sum

 

Busch.

[JeffLearman]

Funny, I was asking my local go-to repair guy (was re-capping some 30 yr-old Yamaha power amps that have been golden all these many decades). I asked him about Behringer vs. Mackie mixers. He said he really couldn't say other than that his shop was full of broken Mackies, and no Behringers at all.

 

Now, this is a typical repair-man's shop with nearly every inch piled 4 to 6 feet deep with every kind of gear imaginable (including a half-dozen Wurlie pianos in different states of disrepair I'd like to get my mitts on ...) I mean, really FULL of gear. And yup, there were lots of Mackies lying around. (This is the guy you go to for difficult repairs, or the best work, but not necessarily the fastest turnaround.)

 

Of course, it might just be that Behringers are so cheap, if it breaks you throw it away and get a new one. Not the ideal model when reliability is important. On the other hand, I've played in houses with bigger Mackie mixers, and they work and sound just fine. Even compared to the Soundcraft, which is clearly a superior mixer, but live the difference in noise level, and even superiority of mic preamps, just isn't that significant. (Turn everything down and it sounds better, anyway!)

[Stroehmann Showman]

One thing that may be helpful to this discussion... I personally have fallen for the Behringer hype as well. I too am a victim (two powered speakers and a Eurorack... the speakers were particularly terrible). I bought all three pieces in 2002 & 2003. The speakers were trashed less than a year later. I use only the Eurorack today for shows where I know beer will be thrown around and I don't want to break my good stuff.

 

However, the original post ACKNOWLEDGED that Behringer has had their problems, and seemed to be interested in knowing whether or not the company has changed their ways... I've seen very little on this thread mentioning WHEN people bought there gear. I would think that's some important information in exploring this...

[EscapeRocks]

Originally posted by Bridog6996:

I only have one piece of Behringer equipment, a Eurorack mixer, and it has been nothing but trusty. Seems pretty solidly built and I've never had any issues with it.

I use a Eurorack mixer in my live rig and it's been in constant gigging status for over three years now with not even a hiccup. It just works, and is reliable. I run my rig to it, then the main outs go to the FOH, while the monitor outs go to my stage monitor.

 

I don't know about their amps/speakers, so I can't comment.

 

I also ave the Behringer FCB1010(?...i'm not good with model numbers )..midi foot controller. It too holds up to weekly stomping.

[zmd]

i have a behringer guitar amp...120watt 2 ch with fx....i dont remember what its called, an x v amp floor modelling deally, and a 2 ch DI....

 

the only issue i've had is the knobs and jacks on the amp are not solid. flimsy would be a fair statement. i do like the sound of all of these items quite a bit for both guitar and keys. of course i prefer the sound of gear that costs 3 times the price, but i cant afford motion sound......yet.

[SilverDragonSoun]

I guess it all comes down ot the usual different strokes for different folks saying. Some people have had success and some haven't. Whatever works for you is great. People will have differing opinions and experiences as is the nature of most things.

 

I was reading the October issue of Keyboard in the amps section by Steven Fortner. He was talking about a gig he was doing in Santa Barbara and he was using a Behringer mixer. So what does this mean? Probably not a thing at all. Just one person who uses a Bheringer mixer live. We live in a world where we have choices and can make choices. Freewill baby wouldn't want it any other way!

[Byrdman]

I have a Eurorack mixer and a feedback destroyer.

 

The feedback destroyer has been solid but the mixer has noise in the headphone amps. The main paths are ok.

 

The pre-amps aren't bad. I have, and have heard, other mixers from other companies that people don't sledge that are significantly worse.

 

I don't use them (or the mixer) for recording and if I do I can hear the difference, but its not like it sounds bad - just less than perfect. As somebody said, there's no way you could tell the difference live.

 

The only issue for live use is I would have liked 6db more headroom and, even though this is standard on most mixers, I wish the mute button muted the pre-fader sends. The other thing that would be useful is a second sweepable mid, but no large market compact mixer I have seen has those.

 

So I will be replacing it at some point but I really don't feel like using an expensive mixer in smoky bars.

 

As for the IP theft thing, I have never seen any actual documentation of that, just rumour. At the time I bought this mixer, Mackie had nothing equivalent in the rack mount form factor, so its hard to believe its a rip-off. If anyone has any links to actual documents, please post.

[vic pichardo]

i have used behringer in the past and while i know that it isn't top of the line i am fine with it. do i have 2 grand to spend on a mixer? no. would i rather get a mixer that will work just fine for a small amount, and then be able to spend more on keyboards and guitars? yes.

 

the only thing is that now i am afraid to buy anything behringer because scott might jump out from an alley, frothing in the mouth, and punture my left lung for my injustices.

[Griffinator]

Originally posted by Byrdman:

As for the IP theft thing, I have never seen any actual documentation of that, just rumour. At the time I bought this mixer, Mackie had nothing equivalent in the rack mount form factor, so its hard to believe its a rip-off. If anyone has any links to actual documents, please post.

Mackie's 16-channel VLZ-series mixers have always been rack-mountable.

 

Documentation on Behringer's IP theft:

 

Roland v Behringer re: Boss Look-alike pedals

 

Mackie v Behringer re: Behringer 8-buss Eurodesk and Eurorack mixers

 

I can't find any of the old Aphex v Behringer documents, although it's pretty well known (and I've seen the original court docs, from 4 years ago when I first heard about this crap) that Aphex won in court, but the award was scarcely worth the effort.

[Griffinator]

Originally posted by vic pichardo:

the only thing is that now i am afraid to buy anything behringer because scott might jump out from an alley, frothing in the mouth, and punture my left lung for my injustices.

Hey, whatever works as a deterrent!

[vic pichardo]

back to the original post though. anybody try the ultratones yet?

[Bluzkeys]

Originally posted by vic pichardo:

back to the original post though. anybody try the ultratones yet?

I went to my local Guitar Center today and they had the K3000FX hooked up to a Korg. I played it and messed around with it and it didn't sound too bad. The salesman let me crank it up so that I could get a feel for stage volume. I'm going to take one out for a 30 day trial. For $279, it's not that large an investment anyway.

I'm going to gig with it this weekend. I'll report on it next week.

[delirium]

Originally posted by vic pichardo:

back to the original post though. anybody try the ultratones yet?

I've tried ultratone K900FX in GC and sound quite good in low ends, planning to buy 2 for stereo setup. For that kind of money (170$)(it's more then great.

[delirium]

Originally posted by vic pichardo:

the only thing is that now i am afraid to buy anything behringer because scott might jump out from an alley, frothing in the mouth, and punture my left lung for my injustices.

same feeling here, I'm not sure if I buy some behringer stuff I'll not loose my ethics

[Griffinator]

Well, you, I'll make sure it's your right lung, just 'cause I'm a nice guy - don't wanna break your heart or anything...

[Bluzkeys]

Originally posted by Bluzkeys:

I'm going to gig with it this weekend. I'll report on it next week.

Well as promised here is the result of my gig using the newly acquired Behringer Ultratone K3000FX.

I was playing with a guitar player who is quite loud (I know you find that hard to believe) and, I've got to say, the Behringer hung right in there. I never had it above 5 and it cut the mix. The tone was clean and didn't color my sound at all.

Due to space limitations at the venue, I couldn't take my Leslie 142 so I had to run my Hammond XK3 and Kurzweil PC88 through the Behringer. No complaints. The amp was continuously on for around 4 hours and never acted up or overheated.

 

I've read the complaints on Behringer products and I am sure those stories are accurate. I either got lucky or they are making the Ultratones a little better.

 

Whatever the case, I am happy, so far, with the K3000FX.

[vic pichardo]

thanks Bluzkeys , good to know.

[delirium]

Bluzkeys,

thanks for update. Of course more important will be to know how does it work after 6 months or a year of use...

But good to know that sound quality is OK.

Usually nothing breaks in first few days

[Byrdman]

Thanks Griffinator. That explains why I had never seen these units - its from 9 years ago and they are recording rather than live mixers.

 

The pedal thing was an issue of passing off rather than IP theft. Still poor form. I knew about that one.

[Bluzkeys]

Originally posted by delirium:

Bluzkeys,

thanks for update. Of course more important will be to know how does it work after 6 months or a year of use...

But good to know that sound quality is OK.

Usually nothing breaks in first few days

You are right on the continued use thing. I used a Peavey KB300 for 12 years and it has been a workhorse. It looks like hell from being hauled around but it never failed me until lately. It's just old and needs to be retired.

 

I play about every weekend so this K3000FX will get put through the paces pretty quickly. Being hauled, loaded, unloaded, bumped, constant use and abuse, and in the smokey bar environment, we'll soon see what it's made of. I bought a one year performance warranty from Guitar Center so if it fails me I'm covered beyond the standard Behringer manufacturer's warranty and I can take it to Guitar Center rather than having to deal with Behringer.

 

I will report any successes or failures.

 

-Bill

[gfred611]

Hello,

 

Just got a K900FX to gig with. Also got the extra warranty from GC.

 

If it lasts at least 2 years, enough for the warranty to wear out, at least I would consider that my money's worth.

 

Funny, I remember getting a Fender Deluxe 112 about 10 years ago for around $250, and it's still looking and sounding great!!!

[keyper]

Let's face it, a lot of our gear is pretty much 'disposable'. Would anyone pay good money to get the heads on their DAT replaced, f'rinstance? And even if it does last there's the constantly changing feature sets. Boards are now commonly available with built-in FX, USB, FireWire etc. Behringer (et al) for all their flaws, are a great way to minimize the financial ding we all take due to technological redundancy, thanks to their surprising price point - and they do keep rolling out the offerings. I love Soundcraft boards, but have never been able to justify the expense for my humble endeavours. I had a chance to buy one the other day, but it was so dirty that I would have probably lost money trying to restore it. So I'll hang on to my Mackie till it wears out, or until there's a board that has enough innovation that I'd be foolish not to switch. Maybe a Behringer with 'British EQ'...

 

As for the IP theft thing... well everyone rips Marshall designs, he ripped the Fender Bassman and Fender ripped RCA... Everyone is ripping iPod and everyone's iPod is full of ripped MP3's (except for you & me of course) It's shitty that there remains less money to be made in the music biz, but the good news is that it's way easier and cheaper to get involved than ever before. For those of us that like to make music for the sake of making music, I think that's a good thing.

[Prague]

Originally posted by keyper:

Let's face it, a lot of our gear is pretty much 'disposable'.

Maybe yours is.

Behringer (et al) for all their flaws, are a great way to minimize the financial ding we all take due to technological redundancy, thanks to their surprising price point

Surprising? A lot of formerly employed people took that "dig".

 

Where do you work? Why should we buy from you when a thief could sell it cheaper?

 

Musicians never cease to amaze me.

[keyper]

Maybe yours is.

I hope you enjoy your gear... for the rest of your life... maybe you can enlighten us on the company that makes such impossible claims. I'd sure like to be your repair tech, heheh.

Surprising? A lot of formerly employed people took that "dig".

What's surprising is the people who think that they can work for one company for the rest of their lives. I've had probably 40 jobs in my life.

 

Where do you work? Why should we buy from you when a thief could sell it cheaper?

I do a variety of things, including self-employment. You should take control of your economic destiny or be forever at the mercy of forces you don't understand. Behringer are not thieves, to say so without proof is illegal. If you disagree it's the law makers and law enforcers you should be angry with

 

Musicians never cease to amaze me.

You're not a musician I take it.

[Griffinator]

Originally posted by keyper:

Behringer are not thieves, to say so without proof is illegal.

They have already, through a variety of judgements and out-of-court settlements, been proven to be intellectual property thieves. I have posted evidence to support this, on this thread. Your denial of that truth does not invalidate it.