Bose 802s for musicians ... ?

[Dave Horne]

I started this thread after replying to another thread here about sound systems.

 

Whenever anyone mentions a sound system for keyboard players everything under the sun gets mentioned except Bose. Why is that?

 

Whenever I walk into a music store I never (or rarely) see Bose equipment. I have two thoughts about this ... and maybe both of my thoughts are incorrect. Bose tends to be expensive; one Bose 802 speaker sells for $750. You'll need two of them and a System Controller. I have no idea what a System Controller costs but I would guess between $150 and $200. You buy those three pieces and you still need a mixer and an amp. It's starting to get expensive ... and that is one reason, I think, why most don't buy Bose.

 

The other reason - perhaps Bose is considered more for commercial use and most music stores don't carry it for that reason; since we don't 'see' it, we don't buy it. My introduction to Bose was in the military when we would use stacks of them for concerts. I would 'borrow' them for my private jobs and eventually bought my own. I've thought of upgrading to the Series III but what I have still works fine.

 

Any thoughts?

[kanker.]

One of the most important considerations when buying an amplification system is its ability to move as much air as you need it to. For my own uses, I have yet to see a Bose system that can move enough air for all the applications that I would need to address. Price/performance.

[gliderproarc]

My dad has been using a Bose PAS system for about a year now. It's that big tall black stick with a half circle black base. Now that is expensive! $1,700 for one and thats without any base modules. But the sound... unparalleled IMO. You really need to hear one to understand. It works by producing sound in a very different fashion then the loudspeaker. There is a lot of science to it, the vids on the bose web site are very interesting to watch.

But hearing is believing. The coverage is almost 180 degrees. And the loss-in-volume-per-foot-from-speaker is amazing.

 

For a keyboardist, I think the two xlr ins and two 1/4" ins would suffice for... hmn one stereo board. Nuts okay so you need a mixer too, not to mention a cart to lug it around with. But I think the sound is worth it. Anyone who runs across one set up, take a good listen and walk around. They really are amazing.

[gliderproarc]

Kanker, by air do you mean bass response or volume? I find that the Bose PAS has plenty of both. I totally understand what you mean by the price part though.

[Moog_Man]

Bose is expensive, and while it has high sound quality, you can get that same quality from another brand, like JBL, at a lower price. Basically I think their weakness is that their stuff is overpriced for the sound produced.

[The Real MC]

I bought a used Bose 802 series II with system controller back in 1990. It's been my stage monitor ever since, my keys sound very good through them and they have never let me down. I've been looking for more 802s since then - never seen any more in stores. Some pro audio catalogs do carry Bose.

 

Don't buy the older 802, you want the series II or newer. The older ones have speakers with disintegrating foam and replacements are not cheap.

[blue and white]

Just out of curiosity, what does the Bose 802 System Controller do. Sorry if it's a stupid question, but I've always wondered.

[ProfD]

DH, I think you are correct on both accounts. Bose didn't really take off with musicians because a) it is expensive and b) home/car audio i.e. commercial use.

 

I don't believe Bose has really done much to target us either in the pro audio market.

 

So many other companies sell reasonably priced boxes that move more air.

 

But, the 802s do sound great especially in the mid and high range. However, I would need a subwoofer with them in order to feel the bottom end.

[resigned]

My primary gigging system in the early 90's for keyboards was a Bose 802 system with the controller and the matching subwoofer (the SW was incredibly heavy). It seemed like a good idea because the speakers were easy to cart around and I thought they sounded good. When JBL came out with their powered EON's I setup the EON's side my side with the 802 system and did several audio tests, like how much EQ it took to get a flat response. The Bose speakers were all over the map frequency-wise and the sound was colored at best. The JBL's were much cleaner and had a much more level EQ response. Not only that but when I added in the power amp for the Bose, the JBL's were less cartage overall. I sold the Bose and have used EON's, both with and without their matching JBL subs, ever since whenever a PA was called for.

 

Not to say that the Bose 802 system can't be used for a credible PA but now you know why they generally aren't used as studio monitors.

[MidLifeCrisis]

I used 802s back in the 80s. I really liked thier crispness and their punch. One problem I remember is that it took lots of power to run them. I was using a Phase Linear 700 at the time and I used to have to ice it down between sets to keep it from over heating. Some nights it still shut down on me.

As much as I loved their sound and portability I had to abandom them after a while.

[kanker.]

Originally posted by gliderproarc:

Kanker, by air do you mean bass response or volume? I find that the Bose PAS has plenty of both. I totally understand what you mean by the price part though.

Surface area. Bose systems just don't offer enough surface area to really push the air at any volume *for what I need/like*.

[Jazz+]

.

[Dave Horne]

I got the $750 number from Froogle, $675 sounds a little better.

 

The controller is an EQ and it costs around $450.

Ouch!

[Dave Horne]

I have to add one thing. For many years I would place the 802s about 10 feet away from each other thinking I would get a better 'spread'. I went back and looked at the original owner's manual from Bose a few years ago and they suggest placing them side by side and perhaps slightly angled out to cover a larger area. Also having the two speakers side by side will reinforce the lower frequencies.

 

Now I setup the speakers side by side, directly behind me and over my head (when standing) and that seems to work fine. I can hear everything without going deaf and the sound is aimed just above the heads of the audience.

 

I could be persuaded to buy powered speakers but then I have to buy more flight cases. I will pay more attention to the powered speakers I hear other guys using. My biggest complaint for most of the powered speakers I hear - they're too bright. I don't know if that is their natural sound or if the musicians boosted the high frequencies.

[mate stubb]

Originally posted by MidLifeCrisis:

I was using a Phase Linear 700 at the time and I used to have to ice it down between sets to keep it from over heating.

Thanks for that, I just spewed Dr. Pepper thru my nose!

 

Ah, Phase Linear. The power. The glory. The flames in the VU meters!

[Blue JC]

Originally posted by mate_stubb:

Originally posted by MidLifeCrisis:

I was using a Phase Linear 700 at the time and I used to have to ice it down between sets to keep it from over heating.

Thanks for that, I just spewed Dr. Pepper thru my nose!

 

Ah, Phase Linear. The power. The glory. The flames in the VU meters!

Yeah - me too! That's a name I haven't heard in a while.

[Jazz+]

..

[ITGITC]

Phase Linear photo

 

Bob Carver is an American designer of audio equipment based in the Pacific Northwest.

 

Educated as a physicist and engineer, he found an interest in audio equipment at a very young age. He applied his talent to produce numerous innovative high fidelity designs since the 1970s. He is known for designing the Phase Linear 700, at 350 watts RMS per channel the most powerful consumer audio amplifier available in 1972. He went on to found the Carver Corporation in 1979 and Sunfire in 1994.

 

 

Bob Carver redesigned the 700 and introduced the 700 B in 1974. It featured dual left and right channel controls. It was rated at 345 watts per channel. Rack handles were now standard and welcomed by studio engineers. The 700 series put both Bob Carver, the amp's designer, and Phase Linear on the high end audio map.

[Dave Horne]

..... a walking encyclopedia ...

[mate stubb]

To be fair to Bob Carver, these were consumer electronics that everybody was using hard for pro use, just because they were the most powerful thing available.

 

They were NOT built for the road and not built to handle crappy power.

[Nicky]

I used Bose 802s for years. I sold them because it became much more convenient to just carry around 2 powered speakers. I've now been through about 3 or 4 pairs of powered speakers.....but nothing I've used since sounds as good as the Bose 802s.

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

..... a walking encyclopedia ...

Thank you.

 

Yes, I try to contribute whenever I can.

 

The Phase Linear amplifier, as well as the Crown DC300, were used in PA systems all over the country in the seventies.

 

It is interesting to note that Bob Carver was the man responsible for many of these unique designs - from the Phase Linear, to the lightweight Carver amps and advanced development in switching technology.

 

350 watts per channel was a helluva lot back then. And MidLifeCrisis is correct that these babies got really hot.

 

Today you can buy amps with twice the wattage and they're light and stay cool.

 

Technology and the speed of innovation continues to amaze me.

 

Yeah. Technology is cool & so is music.

 

I'm not a walking enclyclopedia, but as Sven says "Google Is Your Friend".

[MidLifeCrisis]

The younger generation must be scratching their heads and wondering how we can look back on 75lb amps that overheated to produce 350w per channel. But in the old school these were items to be cherished for their raw power. As bad as they were they still bring back some pretty find memories for me.

As for Bob Carver, I loved the Carver audio line. I had them powering my Klisph speakers for many years. He is a true innovator who never seemed to get the credit he deserved.

[dementedchord]

phase linear...lol i still have a 400 around here somewhere... we used to call them FLAME linear

[The Real MC]

The carver line had one disadvantage - they're a bitch to fix because of those tricky class H amps that few people understand. Bob Carver still has a repair shop out west that repairs carver products, I had to send mine out there.