mark_dog Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 what do you think? Is Bush a War Pig? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Heh, that's being generous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Well, I'm no expert, but here's what Mr. Nelson Mandella said earlier today. [quote]"one power with a president who has no foresight, who cannot think properly, is now wanting to plunge the world into a holocaust."[/quote] [quote]"if there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the United States of America."[/quote]On the other hand, Saddam is a million times the pig that Bush is. I'd like to see Saddam boiled in oil. I just hope that Iraqi civilians don't get vaporized in the process. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe McDonough Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Dan South: [b]Well, I'm no expert, but here's what Mr. Nelson Mandella said earlier today. [quote]"one power with a president who has no foresight, who cannot think properly, is now wanting to plunge the world into a holocaust."[/quote] [quote]"if there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the United States of America."[/quote]On the other hand, Saddam is a million times the pig that Bush is. I'd like to see Saddam boiled in oil. I just hope that Iraqi civilians don't get vaporized in the process.[/b][/quote]I never jump into these useless political threads on this music forum, but that quote from Mandella got me pretty pissed. Someone should educate the guy on the humanitarian aid this country shells out to countries every day. Our embargo of South Africa helped get him out of prison and become the president. I just hate when anyone demonizes the US after the things we've done for the world. I know we've also done some crap (I was a history major) but the amount of good we've done certainly outweights the bad. We could take on any country's record of good and evil. I'll cross of Mandella off my list of respected individuals after those stupid remarks. Joe McDonough Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Nelson Mandela is one of the few world leaders willing to tell it like it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botch. Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 My thoughts exactly, Joe! :mad: Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHAN Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 I didn't know that Doubya was in Black Sabbath. :freak: So Many Drummers. So Little Time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 My thoughts exactly, Sal © !! :thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_dog Posted January 31, 2003 Author Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by KHAN: [b]I didn't know that Doubya was in Black Sabbath. :freak: [/b][/quote]that's where i was coming from i was just listening to that song and thought Bush is a war pig y not make a topic about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael saulnier Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 You guys are ALL SCREWED. Don't you know about Admiral Poindexter's plan to filter all public and private databases to find the "bad people" and punish them... :freak: Let me know when the jackbooted guys show up at your front door. Know the man. Watch out for the man. Be the man. Big Brother is exactly right. And now he knows YOUR name. guitplayer I'm still "guitplayer"! Check out my music if you like... http://www.michaelsaulnier.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Looks like I'll be at the head of that screwing line. Poindexter is a traitor and a convicted criminal, and the fact that he's back working for the government in ANY capacity after Iran/Contra is a travesty. Poindexter and Ashcroft are a bigger threat to the rights and freedoms of Americans that al Q is. Poindexter won't stop until all electronic communication is analyzed as a matter of routine. Ashcroft has jailed American citizens without due process of law, without charges, without access to counsel, without trial for "as long as the conflict continues" - in other words, forever. The Justice Department cites two cases from WWII as precedents for this action, but closer analysis of those cases indicates that defendants received trials in both cases. Ashcroft coined the term "enemy combatant" - again, a concept completely without precedent - in order to incarcerate foreigners indefinitely in military camps without regard to the Geneva convention. Americans traveling abroad should now be extremely cautious, because other countries are likely to follow suit and jail Americans without charges or the right to a trial. All in all, the Bush administration has used the recent attacks as an excuse to justify a frightening suite of illegal totalitarian policies. I long for the day when the voice of reason will prevail again in Washington (hopefully in about two years). The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Dan South: [b] I long for the day when the voice of reason will prevail again in Washington (hopefully in about two years).[/b][/quote]This is the only part of your post I don't agree with. I wish I could be so optimistic but IMHO the voice of reason has not prevailed in Washington for a very long time, certainly not in my lifetime. I do hope for it, but the only answer is to get the overarching influence of $$$ out of there. How likely is that to happen? :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowbell Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 I choose Bush over Gore anyday. I choose Republican over Demorat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by mcdonough@musicplayer.com: [b] I know we've also done some crap (I was a history major) but the amount of good we've done certainly outweights the bad. [/b][/quote]Well, that's debateable. So I guess if someone does something good, that automatically gives them the right to do some really fucked up shit, without being criticized? So I think I'll go help an old lady, then go hold up a store. Will that entitle me to a "get out of Jail" card? IMDB Credit list President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion." President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pierce Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Sal ©: [b]Nelson Mandela is one of the few world leaders willing to tell it like it is.[/b][/quote]And where, exactly, would he be if it wasn't for the US? --Dave Make my funk the P-funk. I wants to get funked up. My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Dave Pierce: [b]And where, exactly, would he be if it wasn't for the US? [/b][/quote]That question is wholly irrelevant, except that it may explain why other world leaders aren't more outspoken about what the US is trying to do. The implication that if the US (or anyone) does something for you then you are obligated to only say nice things about them is rather insidious IMO. The truth is where it's at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Dave Pierce: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Sal ©: [b]Nelson Mandela is one of the few world leaders willing to tell it like it is.[/b][/quote]And where, exactly, would he be if it wasn't for the US? --Dave[/b][/quote]for one thing, he wouldn`t be contemplating the end of civilization as we know it, though catastrophic climate change-thanks to U.S. for another, he wouldn`t be from a continent that is a major market for human carnage, aided and abetted by the world`s biggest arms supplier- thanks to U.S. His comments were aimed at a specific U.S. president with a tendency toward belligerence as bad as those he comdemns, therefore putting its citizens in a dilema. Failing to distinguish between the nation and a specific administration is extremely myopic and dangerous thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaz Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by CowbellAllen: [b] I choose Republican over DemoCrat.[/b][/quote]Always? Without a doubt? What if a Democrat came along who truly had vision, who truly could be trusted, who truly had the abilty to lead? Who truly tried to bring all people together, not just Americans, not just their own party, not just the corporations, not just any one group, but all people. Seems impossible, but don't we have to at least be open to the idea for it to happen? Sometimes, I get worn out and depressed over the divide between people. Read an article today about the attitude of the Iraqi people towards their own government, Bush, and the threat of war. One 70 year old man said, "Some people say Bush will use all his weapons in this. If this is what America wants, what can we do?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pierce Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Sal ©: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Dave Pierce: [b]And where, exactly, would he be if it wasn't for the US? [/b][/quote]That question is wholly irrelevant, except that it may explain why other world leaders aren't more outspoken about what the US is trying to do. The implication that if the US (or anyone) does something for you then you are obligated to only say nice things about them is rather insidious IMO. The truth is where it's at.[/b][/quote]Tell you what -- I've been unemployed for a few months. Why don't you loan me $5K, that will help me out a lot. When I've found a job, and I'm back on my feet I'll be really grateful to you. However, since cash is for suckers, instead of paying you back the money, I'll find out whatever you're not proud of in your life, and tell everyone who will listen about it. Then you can say what a great person I am, for "telling it like it is". Sound good? :rolleyes: --Dave Make my funk the P-funk. I wants to get funked up. My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knunchucksammy Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Jeze, there are some @^#&ed up views here... Nelson would NOT be anywhere without the united states and you ALL know it if you choose to ignore it or not... George W. Bush is just like his father. He is quick to act for war because not only does it create a public distraction like it is now, it is great for the country.... After 9/11 people up and RAN to the "service" in hopes to fight a war because it is safe to say they are confident that Bush will push for war. The biggest pile of crap going on is that Bush is trying to create war with the most ruthless society in the world. BBC had a recent pole in Iraq where 70% of the people asked, believed Iraq had won the gulf war?! He won by 100% vote in the country for his place in office... Their country regardless of their resources should be feared.... They are going to hurt the U.S from the inside out, literally. Democrats have poor views about education (so I have been told) but at least they aren't money hungry war pigs... Matt -------------- Just my two cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote] Failing to distinguish between the nation and a specific administration is extremely myopic and dangerous thinking. [/quote]This is a crucial point. I make the comments I do because I care about this country (as well as the rest of the world), yet all to often I am accused of being a traitor or told I should just leave, etc. If you care about something and you think it is danger of being destroyed it is your obligation to speak up about it. And I [i]thought[/i] that was one of the founding principles of this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Dave Pierce: [b]Tell you what -- I've been unemployed for a few months. Why don't you loan me $5K, that will help me out a lot. When I've found a job, and I'm back on my feet I'll be really grateful to you. However, since cash is for suckers, instead of paying you back the money, I'll find out whatever you're not proud of in your life, and tell everyone who will listen about it. Then you can say what a great person I am, for "telling it like it is". Sound good? :rolleyes: --Dave[/b][/quote]I'm sorry, perhaps I am obtuse but I'm not following your logic here at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pierce Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Sal ©: [b]I'm sorry, perhaps I am obtuse but I'm not following your logic here at all.[/b][/quote]Maybe if you stopped being obtuse then? ;) --Dave Make my funk the P-funk. I wants to get funked up. My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pierce Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Sal ©: [b] [quote] Failing to distinguish between the nation and a specific administration is extremely myopic and dangerous thinking. [/quote]This is a crucial point. I make the comments I do because I care about this country (as well as the rest of the world), yet all to often I am accused of being a traitor or told I should just leave, etc. If you care about something and you think it is danger of being destroyed it is your obligation to speak up about it. And I [i]thought[/i] that was one of the founding principles of this country.[/b][/quote]Well, it's hard to argue with any of that. But there's a big difference between a concerned citizen speaking his mind in hopes of improving the country, and the leader of a foreign government basically badmouthing us. Especially when that foreign leader would still be locked in prison, his people treated as second-class citizens, if it wasn't for the direct intervention of the United States. And when that intervention was done purely out of a sense justice, and against the interests of many of our large business interests. Of course, a big part of why the US did that, was because concerned citizens were speaking out. --Dave Make my funk the P-funk. I wants to get funked up. My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_dog Posted January 31, 2003 Author Share Posted January 31, 2003 Bush is a war pig. knunchucksammy says, "Democrats have poor views about education (so I have been told) but at least they aren't money hungry war pigs..." "...Politicians hide themselves away they only started the war Why should they go out to fight? They leave that role to the poor Time will tell on their power minds Making war just for fun Treating people just like pawns in chess Wait 'till their judgment day comes, yeah..." who does that sound like to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alon Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Mandelas comments make him come off as a senile racist fool. His comments have now moved him over into the "irrelevant" category. alon . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Tonk Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote] "...Politicians hide themselves away they only started the war Why should they go out to fight? They leave that role to the poor Time will tell on their power minds Making war just for fun Treating people just like pawns in chess Wait 'till their judgment day comes, yeah..." who does that sound like to you [/quote]To me it sounds like lyrics from the drug drenched mind of Ozzy. jgc2002 is not responsible for damages ,injuries and or death as result of above post.Side effects include nasuea,dizziness,dry mouth,vomiting,blurred vision,nervousness,loss of memory and in extreme cases sexual side effects. www.mp3.com/salt_creek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_dog Posted January 31, 2003 Author Share Posted January 31, 2003 who else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remainanon Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Since the Mandela story has scrolled totally off the headline pages you now have to search for it specifically. [url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030130/wl_nm/iraq_mandela_dc_2]Here\'s the story[/url] if you want to read it. I don't buy his point of view, especially about the US and Britain mistreating UN Secretary Generals of color. WHA? Grow up, man. But it's important that we actually get to read (however brief the exposure) directly dissenting views of foreign leaders on the topic of Iraq invasion. Because, whatever the rationalization, GWB and his cabinet are talking about invasion. And although there is major and virtually unanimous dissent in the rest of the world, we're seeing precious little of it in the mainstream press here. I don't know if the US should invade Iraq or not. Not enough credible information available to me. But it should trouble all of us that this sort of drastic measure (for it is as drastic as measures get) is sold as if it were a bill of goods. Let's have some facts and proof about Hussein's weapons and connections to Al Quaeda, and let's see some of GWB's "coalition-building". So far, those two vital ingredients are totally missing from the stew. A bunch of hot rhetoric suggests a lack of back-up. This is troubling the governments of almost all the nations on the planet. That's a quantum difference between this build-up and the one in 1991. Bush the Elder actually managed to build consensus among other countries before pushing the button. We keep hearing about our big coalition, but without China, Russia, Western Europe, et al, exactly who is taking part here? JW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Tonk Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 8 european nations signed on to back us up today.Let's just suppose we do nothing.What if someone sneaks into the country with a suitcase nuke or a vial of some biological agent and releases it in a major metro area.I would be willing to bet all of you anti-war folks would be crying "We should have done something". jgc2002 is not responsible for damages ,injuries and or death as result of above post.Side effects include nasuea,dizziness,dry mouth,vomiting,blurred vision,nervousness,loss of memory and in extreme cases sexual side effects. www.mp3.com/salt_creek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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