American Idol vs Julliard Documentary?

[RobT]

Anybody else watch this special on PBS? Very interesting in contrast to this: [url=http://www.musicgearnetwork.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010563]American Idol Comments[/url] Is talent going to Hades in a hand-basket? Would you watch a reality based show that featured Julliard students? Is Julliard just a stuffy, upper-crusty version of the same thing? Boy, I can't wait to see some of the comments on this...

[Joe McDonough]

I watched the PBS show last night. It was much better than AI but the talent on PBS made me upset that I couldn't play the piano a 1/4 as well that those people. At least watching the terrible talent on AI made one think you had some talent yourself.

[Mark Zeger]

I saw the Julliard PBS show in the TV listings, but ended up watching "American Idol" with my wife. I feel so ashamed. Better a documentary at Julliard than Berklee. Imagine watching a parade of bass players, one after another, all auditioning with "Donna Lee"? :rolleyes:

[doc taz]

[quote]Originally posted by RobT: [b]Anybody else watch this special on PBS? Very interesting in contrast to this: [url=http://www.musicgearnetwork.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010563]American Idol Comments[/url] Is talent going to Hades in a hand-basket? Would you watch a reality based show that featured Julliard students? Is Julliard just a stuffy, upper-crusty version of the same thing? Boy, I can't wait to see some of the comments on this...[/b][/quote]I don't think Julliard is nearly as stuffy as you might think. If that were the case, you would never hear of Sharon Isbin playing pieces outside of the usual classical guitar repertoire. Or Jordan Rudess, playing world tours with Dream Theater, and working with one of the best keyboard/synth makers in the biz (Kurzweil). How about Yo Yo Ma, being just as famous as any rock star, but better disciplined, and yet with a good sense of humor? Speaking of humor, does Mr. Robin Williams ring a bell? As for AI, that show should be pulled off the air. Why do I have to waste my time watching contestants being embarrased beyond their wits? It looks like a bad show that came from some public access cable station in New York City, but given a professional production treatment. I wonder how Simon Cowell sleeps at night; it's probably because he makes a ridiculous sum of $ doing this piece of crap.

[Alndln]

[quote]Originally posted by RobT: [b]Anybody else watch this special on PBS? [/b][/quote]Yeah.I hope that at least 1 young person saw it though. :confused:

[RobT]

Actually tazz I have a lot of respect for Julliard. There has been some illustrious talent that has come thru those doors. I found the documentary very informative. There were quite a few folks who went there that I didn't know went there. I liked them prior to having any knowledge that they went to Julliard. It was not an attempt to slam Julliard. Most academic institutions sometimes have an air of stuffiness about them. Or at least I perceive one. Take in contrast a graduate of [b]name-your-state's-ivy-league-university-here[/b] as opposed to [b]name-your-state's-less-well-funded-but-equally-good-university-here[/b] and then contrast them both against [b]name-your-local-hardworking-community-college-here[/b]. Like it or not there is a perceived hierarchy. Not to say that Julliard's music program is any less intense than North Texas University or University of Miami. Some folks may think so. Some may not. The talent, desire and drive lies within the individual. Education is a guide, a roadmap and a door to opportunity. What you do with it is ultimately up to you. I think Julliard is a great school. I also found Lisa Gay Hamilton's comments about the program quite enlightening too! No slam intended only a light-hearted attempt to be glib.

[tnb]

Everyone that I have gigged with that has graduated from Julliard has been very, very, cool. I didn't know anything about the PBS special or I would have taped it, because there is no way my wife would have watched it. Was it good???

[Kendrix]

I found the Julliard show fascinating. The incredible selectivity whereby you really need to stack up favorably against the very few very best in your field - just in order to have a chance at being successful was really stunning. They are only interested in the the top .00001% Contrast this with the pop scene. Also, the proces involving never being satisfied with the students work - always pushing for improvement is just brutal. This reminded me of some of the themes from the book "Art and Fear" that was recommended by someone on this forum. - Its all about the process.

[Dylan]

Damn, I didn't know about this Juliard show until just now. Last night when I was watching AI I was thinking to myself that I could put together a much more entertaining show that would showcase all types of talented musicians, not just pop singers. Hell, there are tons of High School students with more talent that what's on American Idol right now, so it would not be hard to find the talent.

[Felix_dup1]

This show sounds fascinating - I'm glad someone brought it up so I can catch it the next time it's on.

[Your Ad Here]

I saw the Juliard show last night. In today's world where mediocrity is king and stupidity is celebrated, it's fascinating to look into a world that still values excellence. Someone wake me when our cultural decline is halted.

[CP]

I watched both. Mostly the PBS documentary. American Idol is nothing more than an audition that is being broadcast on TV. They do have some talented singers. Heard a few last night. The Julliard documentary was great. I was most impressed with the young, pre-Julliard violinist and pianist. Wow those kids were great. Made me go and practice on the keyboard last night and this morning. What was interesting was how some Julliard graduates had problems with the school, the faculty and the overall direction of the school. My favorite part was watching Wynton Marsalis sitting at the piano comping for his trumpet student, and then trying to explain and show him how to express his music. Can you imagine having an one-on-one training session with somebody like Wynton. Man that would have blown my mind. Also, I didn't know so much went into acting. To have Robin Williams, Kevin Spacey, and Eric LaSalle talk about their experience was great. And that guy from West Wing. Great, great show.

[doc taz]

[quote]Originally posted by RobT: [b]Actually tazz I have a lot of respect for Julliard. There has been some illustrious talent that has come thru those doors. I found the documentary very informative. There were quite a few folks who went there that I didn't know went there. I liked them prior to having any knowledge that they went to Julliard. It was not an attempt to slam Julliard. Most academic institutions sometimes have an air of stuffiness about them. Or at least I perceive one. Take in contrast a graduate of [b]name-your-state's-ivy-league-university-here[/b] as opposed to [b]name-your-state's-less-well-funded-but-equally-good-university-here[/b] and then contrast them both against [b]name-your-local-hardworking-community-college-here[/b]. Like it or not there is a perceived hierarchy. Not to say that Julliard's music program is any less intense than North Texas University or University of Miami. Some folks may think so. Some may not. The talent, desire and drive lies within the individual. Education is a guide, a roadmap and a door to opportunity. What you do with it is ultimately up to you. I think Julliard is a great school. I also found Lisa Gay Hamilton's comments about the program quite enlightening too! No slam intended only a light-hearted attempt to be glib.[/b][/quote]Sorry if I was being quite passionate about my view there. I hope that we don't see a reality-based show based on the culture of a great university like Julliard. That would only demean the reputation of the place IMHO, and open them up to a lot of unwarranted criticism. Network TV should concentrate on making great programming, not delivering stupid, MTV style shows, but then again, I guess that's why I have cable and killer high speed access. :) All those ad dollars are getting to 'em.

[whitefang]

Rob, classical music in itself has a perceived stuffiness about it. For too long, it has been represented in film by arrogant, intellectual snob caracitures, or erroneously believed patronized exclusively by homosexuals. The average joe has NO idea what it's really all about. Once anyone reads about it's composers, their beginnings, problems and personal faults, they'd see comparisons to today's rock and pop stars. Back in the days when I used to partake in illegal substances, I decided to finally get into classical music more actively. I always liked it from childhood, "Peter and the Wolf" being a life-long favorite, but couldn't tell you Mozart from Mahler. So, I started buying albums(this WAS the mid-'70's), listening to the classical radio station(when Detroit HAD one!) and going occasionally to the symphony. One day a friend of mine came over, and stopped short just inside my door! He: "What's THAT you're listening to?" Me: "Beethoven. The 5th piano concerto" He: "Since when did you start listening to THAT stuff?" Me: "Well, I always kind of liked it. I just started buying records and stuff to learn more about it." He: "Oh.(listening for a minute)Well, Guess I'll get going, then." Me: "So soon? What brings you here to begin with?" He: "Well, I had some of this WEED I wanted you to try, but I guess you don't do that anymore." Me: "The HELL I don't! Fire it up! What makes you think I quit?" He: "I mean, you're listening to classical music now, and all..." Me: !?!!?! What wound up happening, however, was that while he was there, HE started getting into it! And still IS, even after both of us gave up the chemical warfare! And I believe that many people DON'T listen to this music based on preconcieved, insipid notions. Like somehow, men would be considered lesser men if they liked it, or one would be considered a conceited snob. And besides. Brahms wasn't what you'd consider a BABE! Whitefang

[Brittanylips]

I would have loved to have seen the show on Juilliard; I too was watching American Idol. I went to Juilliard for 4 years, and studied with the head of the piano department as well as composition. I agree with WhiteFang -- there is a LOT going on in there that people generally have no idea exists, from the "Rock star" phenomenon, to the strangeness of anything done to the extreme, to the stage moms, to the great musicians honing their skills, to the suicides. A genuine reality TV show based on Juilliard would knock your socks off and be GREAT T.V. I have often talked with friends who have had the same experience about portraying what things are really like from within. Without having seen the documentary, I would be skeptical that it portrayed things as they really are, although I'm sure there were amazing scenes. A few thoughts on stuff I read above: Taz: Yo Yo M. didn't go to Juilliard, he went to Harvard. He teaches (sort of -- few students) at Juilliard. Kendrix: Pop is every bit as selective as Juilliard / Classical. After all, most graduates of Juilliard do not make it as soloists. And for all the wannabes in Pop, a comparitively few succeed. Aside from their temporary success, for example, I doubt there will be all that many success stories coming out of "American Idol." I heard the winner of AI 1 today on the radio as I was driving. She's no Mariah Carey. And frankly, Mariah Carey is no Whitney Houston. When it comes to legitimate success, the public would rather buy a Mariah or Whitney record over AI girl, because Mariah and Whitney are better. They are like the very best classical musicians to come out of Juilliard. In fact, I've worked with some "GREAT" classical musicians and some "GREAT" pop musicians. At some level, the genre becomes less important, and the talent becomes remarkably similar. A great violinist playing a great phrase is remarkably similar to a great pop singer singing a great phrase. -Peace, Love, and Brittanylips

[Skip_dup1]

[quote]Originally posted by Brittanylips: [b] And frankly, Mariah Carey is no Whitney Houston.[/b][/quote]amen to that... I wish I had seen the Julliard show, too. My guitar teacher was a graduate, though he too was unable to get the Medal of Honor`, or whatever it is they give the best of the best of the best... As yet, the whole AI thing has not made it to Japan except for that song. It sounds like a good human drama show, if that`s your thing. I doubt I would take time out to watch it.

[tnb]

Originally posted by Brittanylips: [quote] At some level, the genre becomes less important, and the talent becomes remarkably similar. A great violinist playing a great phrase is remarkably similar to a great pop singer singing a great phrase. [/quote]:thu:

[RobT]

whitefang, I hear ya. My intro to classical came by way of Switched On Bach when Wendy was still Walter. A friend bought it back in the 70's when I was a teen and it really caught my ear. I've read some of the things that Bach said and was said about his life and the purpose of music I am totally amazed. But, that classical music world seems to have some serious gatekeepers. I'm surprised that there is no longer a classical station in Detroit. You mean to tell me that WCLS finally bit the dust too!?!

[Jotown]

The Julliard doc was great, and it illustrates the huge difference between Julliard students, and American Idol participant. [b]Julliard students =[/b] Someone who is really willing to work extremely hard because they have a burning passion for their medium. [b]American Idol participant =[/b] Someone who wants to be a popstar and get famous on the shortest path possible. Brinnaylips wrote: [quote]Pop is every bit as selective as Juilliard / Classical. After all, most graduates of Juilliard do not make it as soloists. And for all the wannabes in Pop, a comparitively few succeed. Aside from their temporary success, for example, I doubt there will be all that many success stories coming out of "American Idol." They are like the very best classical musicians to come out of Juilliard. [/quote]I think there is one major difference though. Pretty much everyone who graduates from Julliard already is a success, because they got a degree from on of the top performance arts schools in the world. Though few will get famous, many will go on to be educators, composers, choreographers etc... and actually have a career in the field they love. When you goal to be a popstar, if you do anything less than become famous, and thus a star, you have by definition failed. That person on the other hand will have only a bag full of broken dreams. The difference is between someone who wants to be an artist- and someone who wants to be a star. It's the difference between a Tori Amos, and a Britnay Speers. It is a huge difference, in my opinion.

[doc taz]

Jotown's right on the money here.

[Brittanylips]

Jotown -- Overall I agree with you. It was very clear on AI how superficial most of the contestants are, and there is an almost delicious anticipation of the train wreck to follow. It will be delightful to watch Simon tear apart that frizzy-haired arrogant fuck who kissed Paula's hand as a way to compensate for his lousy performance, or that full-of-herself Italian toughy who derided her group-mates for their lack of respect when she was the one who missed that mornings' rehearsal. At least Juilliard students show up for rehearsals! And you're right, many will pursue musical careers that aren't wrapped up in "stardom." However, there are also a number of Juilliard students who have a similarly arrogant mentality and expectation of Rock-star-like success, and many also lack real discipline. And while your description of a Juiliard student as "Someone who is really willing to work extremely hard because they have a burning passion for their medium" is the public's perception, and sometimes correct, it is also something of a charicature, and not always true. There are a number of reasons why students are there, and not all of them are quite so admirable. For instance, there are a number of foreign students whose families have pushed them to pursue music at a high level in order to earn money and prestige for the family. Often the family splits up in order to enable the student to attend (e.g. mother leaves an Eastern country in order to accompany and supervise their child's musical career. Not a pretty site, and a frequent recipe for failure, although the formula occasionally works). I remember one young student who was there under those circumstances. I think he was in the 9th grade at school. After a particularly challenging lesson, he went home and killed himself. Mi-dori, who Leonard Bernstein called one of the greatest musicians of the century when she was only 12, also came to Juilliard under those same circumstances -- her mother brought her to Juilliard, leaving the rest of their family in Japan behind. She practiced unusually long hours with her mother (a violin teacher, herself) supervising all the way. Mi-Dori's career took off, and she became famous and wealthy. However, she too has had significant personal problems. Then there are a number of other Juilliard students who are exactly as you describe -- driven, passionate, and hard-working, and many do succeed, and in many different ways, and are nothing like the frizzy-haired fuck on American Idol! Nadja Sonnenberg, another Delay student, was kicked out of Juilliard for lack of work, got her act together, came back, and has become one of the most sought-after soloists in Classical music. The fact that playing her instrument does not come as easilly for her as some other soloists, such as Jimmy Lin, has meant that she has had to work even harder, and has become an even more interesting performer. Yo-Yo- Ma, who Taz brought up, is a great example of a successful classical musician who avoided the Juilliard scene -- he had a much better and more rounded experience at Harvard, which helped him become not only a great person comfortable in his own skin, but also a better player than had he concentrated on studying music to the exclusion of everything else. -Peace, Love, and B-Lips

[CP]

B-lips: In the documentary, some of the former Julliard students spoke of the tremendous pressure put on the students, especially the young ones. Some felt that the school compounded the pressure already put on by parents and private teachers. The expectations are tremendous for a very mature person to handle, never mind a teenager. I'm sure you know about the pre-college program, where kids as young as 7 or 9 could attend Julliard for lessons. The pressure on them is just as intense. However, I was still amazed by the level of artistry that these children and young adults exhibited. It was absolutely beautiful to watch. I do agree with some, that the school needs to impart on these children that there is more to life than mastery of their instrument. For a child to spend two hours practicing before school, and another 3-4 hours after school leaves him no time to be a child. However, it seemed quite the opposite. The school encouraged that type of singularity of focus and dedication in order to become the best at what you do.

[whitefang]

Well, CP, Julliard does have a reputation to keep. For all THAT is worth. The music itself is demanding, and if the instructors aren't also, not much might get accomplished. It might be a good thing in little league baseball or pee-wee hockey to put the emphasis more on having fun, but if you're going to take anything seriously, the pressure has to be applied. And RobT, I'm not familiar with WCLS, but I do a lot of "dial surfing". The only classical to be heard are snippets of works on CBC, for limited hours a day, and some college stations. ALSO for limited hours. Even WDET doesn't play classical as often as they used to. Shame! Whitefang

[Jotown]

Brittanylips wrote: [quote]At least Juilliard students show up for rehearsals! And you're right, many will pursue musical careers that aren't wrapped up in "stardom." However, there are also a number of Juilliard students who have a similarly arrogant mentality and expectation of Rock-star-like success, and many also lack real discipline. And while your description of a Juiliard student as "Someone who is really willing to work extremely hard because they have a burning passion for their medium" is the public's perception, and sometimes correct, it is also something of a charicature, and not always true. There are a number of reasons why students are there, and not all of them are quite so admirable. [/quote]I would say that anyone who is not really willing to work extremely hard because "they have a burning passion for their medium", would probably not get into Julliard in the first place, and if they did get in, they wouldn't survive long. As far as pressure on youngsters, I think it goes without saying, that is never a good thing. If you took the 3000 people who auditioned for AI, and the last 3000 Julliard students, I would bet you would find that about 80% of the Julliard students are as I described in my post. While 90% percent of the AI contestants were minimally talented wannabe's hoping to just get lucky. Between the ages of 14 and 18 I probably practiced between 6 and 8 hours a day, every day. Every good musician I have ever known has a similar story. It's called commitment, and passion for excellence. If someone doesn't have it they are probably in the wrong school, and certainly the wrong business. I remeber hearing Eddie Van Halen being interviewed on the radio many years ago. He said: "I hate when people tell me that I have a gift. Sure I had some natural talent and ability, but I practiced 8 to 12 hours a day for a long time. I earned my chops" In my experience, that is usually how it goes.

[Lee Tyler]

I found the CD version of the [i]original[/i] "Switched" on EBAY. Not an easy find, but it sure as shit as sounds GREAT! What an extrodinary accomplishment that album was, and you can seemingly hear the separation of the instrumentation and compositional elements clearer than when performed on acoustic/classical instruments. Go figga. And as for AI??? Great movie...lol.....but the show is just [b]schtick,[/b] no more....no less. Ratings, money, cheap entertainment...like rubbernecking at a train wreck. I don't have time to waste on the bullshit "realty" shows. My 2 [i]sense.[/i] ~~~Lee [img]http://www.jeffpylenz.com/INCREDIMAIL%20VOL.2/PIGGY%20SMILIES/sandm.gif[/img] [quote]Originally posted by RobT: [b]whitefang, I hear ya. My intro to classical came by way of Switched On Bach when Wendy was still Walter. A friend bought it back in the 70's when I was a teen and it really caught my ear. I've read some of the things that Bach said and was said about his life and the purpose of music I am totally amazed. But, that classical music world seems to have some serious gatekeepers. I'm surprised that there is no longer a classical station in Detroit. You mean to tell me that WCLS finally bit the dust too!?![/b][/quote]

[RobT]

[quote]Originally posted by whitefang: [b] And RobT, I'm not familiar with WCLS, but I do a lot of "dial surfing". The only classical to be heard are snippets of works on CBC, for limited hours a day, and some college stations. ALSO for limited hours. Even WDET doesn't play classical as often as they used to. Shame! Whitefang[/b][/quote]whitefang - WCLS was station either in Ann Arbor, Ypsi or Brighton. It was strictly classical and NPR news show updates. I did a search on MichiganBroadcast and it looks like the call letter have been sold to a company that operates out of the thumb area. Oh well.

[Kendrix]

[quote]Originally posted by Brittanylips: [b] Kendrix: Pop is every bit as selective as Juilliard / Classical. After all, most graduates of Juilliard do not make it as soloists. And for all the wannabes in Pop, a comparitively few succeed. Aside from their temporary success, for example, I doubt there will be all that many success stories coming out of "American Idol." I heard the winner of AI 1 today on the radio as I was driving. She's no Mariah Carey. And frankly, Mariah Carey is no Whitney Houston. When it comes to legitimate success, the public would rather buy a Mariah or Whitney record over AI girl, because Mariah and Whitney are better. They are like the very best classical musicians to come out of Juilliard. In fact, I've worked with some "GREAT" classical musicians and some "GREAT" pop musicians. At some level, the genre becomes less important, and the talent becomes remarkably similar. A great violinist playing a great phrase is remarkably similar to a great pop singer singing a great phrase. -Peace, Love, and Brittanylips[/b][/quote]Britanylips. I agree with hyou tah onoy a small percentage of the folks pursing popo careeers will succeed. I also agree that some of teh one that do make it are great talents (the Whitney of old as a for instance). However, unlike the classical world I'd argue that the pop scene is also filled with examples of folks who have achieved commercial success but who are technically just mediocre- or worse as musicians/singers. Im sure we could all list several examples. It seems this just does not happen in the calssical world. That's the point I intended to make.

[Brittanylips]

[quote]Originally posted by CP: [b]B-lips: In the documentary, some of the former Julliard students spoke of the tremendous pressure put on the students, especially the young ones. Some felt that the school compounded the pressure already put on by parents and private teachers. The expectations are tremendous for a very mature person to handle, never mind a teenager. I'm sure you know about the pre-college program, where kids as young as 7 or 9 could attend Julliard for lessons. The pressure on them is just as intense. However, I was still amazed by the level of artistry that these children and young adults exhibited. It was absolutely beautiful to watch. I do agree with some, that the school needs to impart on these children that there is more to life than mastery of their instrument. For a child to spend two hours practicing before school, and another 3-4 hours after school leaves him no time to be a child. However, it seemed quite the opposite. The school encouraged that type of singularity of focus and dedication in order to become the best at what you do.[/b][/quote]As a veteren, I know about the Pre-College all too well! In a way, the school itself exerts less pressure on the kids, who don't really understand "institutional pressure." Pressure is mainly from the private teacher, the competition from other students, and most of all, from families run amok. Competition and pressure can even extend to who gets a lesson and when. Delay was notorious for having students camp outside of her room. She'd show up, there'd be a bunch of students waiting for a lesson, she'd send one out for a pastrami sandwich, and give only a few of her favorites a lesson. While MiDori, for instance (to go back to her) would get one or two lessons a week, other students might be lucky to get one or two a year. I would say that for me, the experience was fantastic, on many levels. Of course, I didn't have a crazed stage mom hanging out on the 2nd floor cafeteria yammering it up with all the other crazed stage moms. Juilliard practice room rule: If someone leaves a practice room vacent for more than 15 minutes, it's up for grabs. Thus, there is a roving gang of vulture music students looking for practice rooms, timing the length of others' absences in order to take over their rooms. -Peace, Love, and Blips

[Brittanylips]

[quote]Originally posted by Jotown: [b] I would say that anyone who is not really willing to work extremely hard because "they have a burning passion for their medium", would probably not get into Julliard in the first place, and if they did get in, they wouldn't survive long. As far as pressure on youngsters, I think it goes without saying, that is never a good thing. If you took the 3000 people who auditioned for AI, and the last 3000 Julliard students, I would bet you would find that about 80% of the Julliard students are as I described in my post. While 90% percent of the AI contestants were minimally talented wannabe's hoping to just get lucky. Between the ages of 14 and 18 I probably practiced between 6 and 8 hours a day, every day. Every good musician I have ever known has a similar story. It's called commitment, and passion for excellence. If someone doesn't have it they are probably in the wrong school, and certainly the wrong business. I remeber hearing Eddie Van Halen being interviewed on the radio many years ago. He said: "I hate when people tell me that I have a gift. Sure I had some natural talent and ability, but I practiced 8 to 12 hours a day for a long time. I earned my chops" In my experience, that is usually how it goes.[/b][/quote]There was a New York Times article in which they surveyed professional classical musicians, and found that the difference between levels of success, e.g. soloist vs. orchestral player, was directly releated to hours of practice per day (not that that is the only variable). I agree, hard work is the key. I also agree that 90% of AI contestants were hoping to get lucky, and even if they had better voices than what we saw, have zero chance of making it because of their lax work ethic. However, I still think you're a bit generous on the Juilliard mentality. I think the percentage who match your description is far less than 80%; perhaps more like 25%. I think that pathology rather than burning passion is behind a lot of the long hours. I think it's similar to high-achieving kids in sports, where all sorts of ancillary and dubious reasons play into their success. Parents living vicariously through their kids, manipulating and exploiting their kids, etc. I remember one member of the New York Philharmonic storming into the Juilliard building and screaming at this one kid who he claimed had "corrupted" his son, a fellow Juilliard student, by taking him out for a night on the town. Needless to say, and as much as that NY Phil kid was a flashy player when young, he was one messed up dude and ultimately not much of a contender. -P, L, and BLips

[Jotown]

[quote]. I think that pathology rather than burning passion is behind a lot of the long hours. [/quote]That is probably true. But that same type of pathology is also part of the reason why Eddie Van Halen practiced long hours. They kind of go hand in hand with an artistic temperment. Burning passion, obsessive nature, perhaps pathologically driven. Most great artists, scientists, creators in general, are not normal people. Thats why they are great. The kind of commitment it takes to be great at anything, is not typical of most humans. But most creators are comfortable with their not normalness, and would'nt have it any other way. If that kind of commitment does not feel comfortable for someone, they are probably not in the right field of pursuit in the first place.