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Keyboards and effects in a liveenvironment, approch??


Mr Pianoman

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How are you folks here approches the effects in you synth when playing live??

 

When sitting home and program your keyboardsounds it´s fun playing around with the internal effects ( I have a motif 6)

There are delays and EQ and reverb and you name it...

But what sounds good at home in your speakers doesn´t sound that good when you add guitars and drums etc etc..

 

Using to much reverb makes the sounds loose precense etc...

and not cut trough in the mix.

 

Unfortunatley many synths depend on it´s internal effects to make the sound sound good....like triton and motif and those kind o synths.

 

The best would be if the patches sounded really good totally dry without any effects , like nord lead and those kind .

 

Any rules or tips that a keyboardplayer could think of that´s make´s playing live smoothes possible ..

 

I know that there many who uses workstation-type of keyboards when playing live and it would be fun to hear how people approches the effects when they are playing live..

It´s better to play fast then not...
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Good question, a live environment is totally different than studio or home. I add very little reverb live. If the sound of a patch is good to begin with, reverb just confuses or muddies the live sound. The live space often has too much reverb already and sonic clutter. It's better to error on the side of too little rather than too much reverb. Amateurs often drown their live sound with reverb. But if the patch sounds lousy then maybe it is better to drown it, lol.

 

my 2 cents

Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas

 

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At home I often assign my effect amounts, delay times etc. to a controller (pedal, wheel etc). What sounds good on one application often doesn't work for another. I imagine this might work for live use as well.
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Originally posted by Jazz+:

Good question, a live environment is totally different than studio or home. I add very little reverb live. If the sound of a patch is good to begin with, reverb just confuses or muddies the live sound. The live space often has too much reverb already and sonic clutter. It's better to error on the side of too little rather than too much reverb. Amateurs often drown their live sound with reverb. But if the patch sounds lousy then maybe it is better to drown it, lol.

 

my 2 cents

Big +1 here. Nothing makes a digital piano sound more "digital" than putting reverb on it and then running it through PA horns. There's always enough ambience in even the deadest of rooms to put some "bloom" on your sound once you get offstage. I use no reverb on all sounds, but add a bit of slapback delay (just one reflection) on synth leads, which fattens them up a bit.

 

It's not just amateurs that leave reverb on when they're gigging. I've heard seasoned pros smear and wreck their sound with it too. With some players I think it's a matter just going with the presets and not turning it off... most all presets include reverb so it sounds good in the showroom.

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I use no reverb on all sounds, but add a bit of slapback delay (just one reflection) on synth leads, which fattens them up a bit.

]

This is exactly what kind of tips I´m searching for...

 

Delay is another question I wonder about..

I think that the approche Less is more is a thing to start from ...but do you guys use them on strings and brass type of sound to...to fatten them up.

 

I´m thinking also that I want to make it easy for the soundguy on gigs to make an overall great sound for the band.

It´s better to play fast then not...
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I feel that most effects are way overdone in the factory presets. I usually knock the verb down to next to nothing unless I am going for a particular thing. Delay I'll tend to use more for retro synth type sounds. I think a lot of those things that might sound cool to us in the studio or at home just clutter and muddy things up live. Most venues that I play in tend to be live (acoustically) anyway so it seems even less necessary. Best thing is if you can record what things sound like FOH with a mic and review it for yourself, then you can hear how things change.
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I agree about the reverb. I usually remove the reverb from patches when playing live. It muddies up the sound, with guitars/bass/drums going simultaneously. I often kick up the high end on the EQ (judiciously, of course) too, to make the keys stand out a bit. The higher end of the frequency spectrum seems to be open for use in most bands. I think people hear mainly the attack of sound and after that .1 second the sound blends into the mix.

 

DRD

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Mild stereo chorus really fattens up a lot of sounds. Another nice one that's not as common is stereo pitch shift doubling. A sound with a stereo image tends to clutter LESS. Cuts through the mix better while also leaving more room for the other instruments. (When used wisely, which goes without saying.)

 

I agree about avoiding or minimizing reverb when playing live. Of course, rules are to be understood rather than slavishly followed, and there are exceptions.

 

If you do use reverb, stereo reverb is far superior to mono reverb, for the reason mentioned above. IMHO, the ideal live reverb uses mostly early reflections, with minimal tails (e.g., lots of damping), so you get the imaging-location effect without the clutter (tails). (This applies in the studio too, but with more allowance for tails.)

 

I also agree that most factory settings have FX overdone, for the obvious reason: we tend to listen to them alone, not in a band setting, when choosing gear.

 

The downside is that most venues don't run stereo, due to practical considerations. So lots of us try to find settings that sound great in stereo and use stereo monitors. Our monitors often double as our mains, and when we're feeding the house PA, we find out whether it's running mono or stereo. For mono mains, we make sure we're feeding something that sounds good in mono. I set up my gear so that the right side is always suitable for use as a mono feed. (And then I often put the left side where at least the front of the audience will hear it and get some image from it.) On some gear, summing both sides is the best bet, but beware stereo pianos and other patches that sum to mono and sound like crap.

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In a lot of houses, yes. If the engineer were mixing the CD to sound best in the venue, he/she would have probably used a lot less reverb.

 

But Prague has a point: don't overgeneralize. Only morons make generalizations. ;)

 

Ideally, you adjust reverb to suit the venue. I find I don't need much in the places I play. But no doubt there are some clubs that are relatively dead. Also, the audience matters: fill up a house and you need more reverb than when it's empty.

 

It all depends on what you're going for and how much fiddling around you can tolerate. Most folks use considerably less reverb live than in the studio.

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The basic rule of thumb that I use for effects is there should be just enough where you don't really notice they're there, but you do notice if they're not there. That way they can add a bit of fullness without losing the definition.

There is one song where I'll run the reverb on my Hammond way up, our version of "Take me to the River" based on the Talking Heads version. I'll run the reverb way up so that I can actually play it. I'll intentionally play certain notes staccato, bringing out the reverb. But, this is the effect I'm going for, and as soon as the song is over, the reverb comes back down to a more conservative level.

 

Most of the time that I've gone into the studio the engineer requests that I turn the effects on a sound completely off. They can be added later, but they cannot be removed if they're too much.

"In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome.

So God helped him and created woman.

 

Now everybody's got the blues."

 

Willie Dixon

 

 

 

 

 

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Originally posted by Mr. Nightime:

The basic rule of thumb that I use for effects is there should be just enough where you don't really notice they're there, but you do notice if they're not there.

Funny -- that's my basic rule of thumb for underwear as well :D

"Oh yeah, I've got two hands here." (Viv Savage)

"Mr. Blu... Mr. Blutarsky: Zero POINT zero." (Dean Vernon Wormer)

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Originally posted by Ed Coury:

Originally posted by Mr. Nightime:

The basic rule of thumb that I use for effects is there should be just enough where you don't really notice they're there, but you do notice if they're not there.

Funny -- that's my basic rule of thumb for underwear as well :D
^LOL
~Joey~
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Originally posted by Ed Coury:

Originally posted by Mr. Nightime:

The basic rule of thumb that I use for effects is there should be just enough where you don't really notice they're there, but you do notice if they're not there.

Funny -- that's my basic rule of thumb for underwear as well :D
Now that's just too much information. :eek::wave:

"In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome.

So God helped him and created woman.

 

Now everybody's got the blues."

 

Willie Dixon

 

 

 

 

 

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i'm a bit of an effects junkie. but, they are an integral part of my sounds. leslie of course, nasty ring mod for some synth patches, i have a huge delay/verb/phaser patch for a washy intro, and my fave setting is a sample and hold type of filter mess called a pixxelator.

 

i never use normal reverb...too mushy on stage, i go bone dry except for that one patch i mentioned above. i also never use chorus, i find i dont need any fattening up..well, no more than the sound guy can give me.

 

for refence, i use only patches with organ style envelopes, analog synth and organ patches only.

so, its not so much about curing it as it is about hiding it...to help spread it faster
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