Yamaha CP-80 - Availbiliity, cost, etc,

[Nils Salthe Helberg]

Hey. After seing and hearing some great acts using the Yamaha CP-80 (Keane, U2 ++) I'm wondering. Are those to get hand on. I guess that theyre no longer being produced. How much would I have to pay for one. Pros, cons etc.

[Frode Mangen]

The pros are great sound and feel, but it`s heavier than a rhodes, and can be a nightmare to keep in tune. I think you have to spend 1200-2000$ depending on the shape of the piano!

[JeffLearman]

CP-70 might not be cheaper but will be easier to find, since they outsold the CP-80 pretty significantly. (CP-70 has a 76-note E to G keyboard.)

 

IMHO, the notes below the E on the CP80 are barely worthwhile, and I never missed the ones above high G. CP-70 was my main piano from 1980 to 1997.

 

It's a fun piano to play, especially for rock. Very crashy tone, lots of noise in the high harmonics that add zest to simple parts but interfere with complex jazz and classical music. Also, it has a very loud and long sustain compared to a real piano -- again, good for rock and blues and bad for complex jazz and classical (e.g., you lose the distinctness of each note in runs). Not being a complex jazz or classical player, I really like the sustain. Sounds great playing Paul McCartney style, the end to Layla, and stuff like that.

 

I miss mine, but not too much. I sure don't miss lugging it, though either piece of the CP70 is easier to carry than a Rhodes 73. I don't miss lugging the Rhodes either.

 

The price varies quite a lot. Not long ago it wasn't hard to find playable ones under $500, but I think it has turned the corner. (At that time, about 4 years ago, I donated mine to a church.) I didn't find any for sale when I googled & checked ebay, which was definitely NOT the case back then.

 

There are some digital versions that aren't too bad. There's a free giga version at sullivang.net/samples, easily converted to most player formats. (You'd have to tweak the release times, which are way too short in Greg's preset.)

[StillFightingIt]

Hi,

I love my CP80, really fun to play, but learjeff summed it up perfectly. Heavy, I've gigged with mine and tuning has been fine (I bring a tuning hammer to touch up the odd note, but it hasn't needed it).

 

What has happened to me though is I've broken a few strings... :-(

 

All the strings were original which potentially makes them 20+ years old. I spoke with my local piano technician, he said you'll probably break a few cause they're probably at 'that' age. Anyway, after I broke the first one, I had him put a new CP string on, just modelled off the broken one.

 

Anyway I was looking in to getting him to replace all the CP strings (not the standard piano wire ones, they're fine) with a quote of $700 from him, and more from other people. I was going to do that.

 

BUT yesterday I broke the new one he put in! (G below middle C)

 

So was hoping learjeff you might be able to think why I'm breaking strings around that octave?

 

E3, G3 2 strings {actually 1 string twice so G3 x3}, A3, Bb3. 6 strings in total...

 

The hammers appear to be the same as the hammers everywhere else along the board, ie. no wood showing through the cow skin stuff...

Any ideas?

[Mr. Nightime]

I played a CP-70B for years, 1979 - 1992, and I don't miss it at all. The tone was thin due to the lack of a sound board and only 2 strings per note, I had to have it restrung TWICE in 7 years of very heavy playing. The action was stiff. And, they were 73 note E to E, not to G. Plus, you have to have a tuning hammer, and learn how to use it.

 

The reason you're breaking strings in that area is that's where most players spent the most time, and where they play the hardest.

 

Biggest problem with the CP-70B is when a string would break, all the notes within a 5th either side would go drastically sharp. The sudden release of the string's tension would relax the harp enough to pull the other strings sharp. Much the same, but not as drastic, as breaking a string on a Strat.

 

These days many digital pianos and synths include the sound of the CP-70/CP-80. If that's the sound you want, there it is with none of the problems.

 

They're great for furniture, but I wouldn't bring one on the gig any more. My bandmates already complain that my stage footprint is too big.

[jimmymio]

I really liked my CP-70 B. Again the main issue was the weight. At that time i made my living tuning EPs (Dyno-My-Piano) so the tuning issue was not a problem for me.

If you go for the CP-70, make sure you get the 70B. I believe the tuning stability was greatly improved over the original 70.

JP

[Mr. Nightime]

I think they changed the pin block on the 70B to make it more stable.

[Mr. Nightime]

If you do decide to get the CP70B/CP80, make sure you have the owner's manual. Not for the operation of it, as it's easy and straightforward, but for the chart. The manual contains a chart with the correct stretch tuning curve, in cents. If you use a tuner, unless you adhere to the chart, the tuning won't sound right. Using the chart adds some life to the sound. Plus, it you break a plain string, the chart tells you what guage piano wire to use as a replacement.

 

For a long time I used a Conn Strobe tuner to tune it. I found that the low-mid on up were easy to tune. But the really low strings can be a bear to get sounding right. The string length is so short, the harmonices are out of tune with themselves. I had to tune to the second harmonic on the tuner and not the fundamental. The fundamental was flat, and the third harmonic was sharp. When you get low, you're almost better off forgoing the tuner and tuning by ear.

 

I'm not saying don't get one. In their day they were the only practical way to get a realistic piano sound short of the hassles of carting around and miking an acoustic. The Kawai was very similar, but not as easy to move, and the Helpinstill sounded better, but had all the issues of an acoustic. I still like to sit down to one from time to time. I just have no desire to ever have one again.

[StillFightingIt]

I have the owners manual in pdf format if required.

[The Real MC]

Carrying and setting a CP is a two person job. There are so many more portable alternatives today and you don't have to worry about tuning a digital piano.

 

I'd go with the P-90, it has a preset that sounds like the old CP pianos if you want THAT sound.

[JeffLearman]

That's the "Service Manual", not the owner's manual. (The owners manual only has obvious stuff in it, like how to put it together and don't drop it.)

 

StillFighting, this is a question for a good tech and not me, but where is the string breaking? That's usually the main clue. If it's at either bridge, you might have a sharp edge at the bridge that can be smoothed. If it's at the hammer, look more closely at the hammer! If it's anywhere else on the string ... maybe you should ease up a bit?

 

I play pretty hard, though I didn't gig my CP70 too much and it got nothing like the use a steady gigging pro would give one. However, I did buy it abused (really, the case was in tatters, but the internals were all OK). It had a couple broken strings and I think in all the time I had it, only one wound string broke. (Don't remember whether that one was broke when I got it. I do know I broke one or two high notes -- regular piano wire.) My piano had balanced outputs but an internal power supply, so it was a transitional model. Don't know what that means to the pin block, but tuning stability was better than I'd expect from a typical piano.

[Bill H.]

I've kept my CP80. It's currently st up in my living room as my home piano.

 

Except for the fact that it looks so retro-cool, I can't imagine anyone touring with one today, In a rock band context, the bass notes are off, the tenor range is muddy, and high notes spike through in piercing way that sounds nothing like a real piano. There are so many better choices, but if that's the sound you're after, I have yet to hear anything that has really captured it in all it's quirky glory.

 

I liked mine a lot better when I was gigging as a solo and quiet duo. It worked a lot better in that context. It feels like you're playing a real piano, and it's drawbacks actually give its sound some character that was lacking in the early digitals that were out back then.

 

The CP80's strings are a little longer than the ones on the CP70 (I've seen both together with their tops off) which gives it a slightly fuller sound and better string stability. I have yet to break a string on mine, but I've never been a banger either.

[Moonglow]

I have a CP-70B out in my garage collecting mold. Shame on me, but I have no other place for it. I loved this thing back in the day....it was the only way to get a decent piano sound. Mine had great tuning stability, and I never broke a string (and I'm a banger!). I made a four-inch wooden platform so I could play it standing up. It served as an ultra-cool stand for my Prophet-5 as well. Those were the days.....

[StillFightingIt]

Thanks for that insight there.

I have the stretch tuning chart and string numbers etc. + manual in pdf if required.

 

All strings have broken at the pinblock end, on the wire, not the wound part. So yeah I'll talk to my piano tech about that.

 

Bill H. - Interesting, for me mine has a pretty nice tone all the way through the range, except obviously the bass notes get a little clunky. My tenor range and high range are great! Infact I made a recording with my band on one, I used 3 tracks, 1 direct line, and 2 condenser stereo mics on the piano with the lid off, after we checked phasing etc. we got some good results. To my ears more natural than recording from one of my digitals... (and it's great on the recording you can hear dampers etc.)

 

To me it's just so inspiring to play. And also good for developing your chops on this action. Mine's not stiff, but still heavy.

[Bill H.]

My negative comments were based on the context of playing live in a loud rock band, where anything below middle C doesn't cut unless you jack the treble up, and then the high notes take your head off. As a sit-down piano at home I enjoy it, as I did using it as a lounge piano, where you can finesse it a bit. These things really have a lot of low-end to them, so they're full sounding... just not very warm due to lack of wooden soundboard. Recording it the way you did probably sounded great.

[blue and white]

Originally posted by StillFightingIt:

All strings have broken at the pinblock end, on the wire, not the wound part. So yeah I'll talk to my piano tech about that.

Thats weird, I have a friend who had the same problem with his guitar. Only on the wound strings were they snapping, and only the core of the string. He took a file to his bridge and dulled it out a little bit. Never again did he have that problem, it works great.

 

I'm not really familiar with the innards of the CP series, but I'd assume a similar treatment would yield similar results.

[Mr. Nightime]

Originally posted by StillFightingIt:

All strings have broken at the pinblock end, on the wire, not the wound part. So yeah I'll talk to my piano tech about that.

 

That's the place where every one of my broken strings happened. It's not necessarily due to a sharp edge on the harp. That's right by where the hammer hits, so it will naturally break there. Plus, the wound strings end their windings before the harp and the rear pickup, so the center wire is all that touches the string supports.

 

If your piano tech can find something, great, but I think you'll find there's not much he can do.

[JeffLearman]

BTW, anyone who thinks the CP70/80 action is heavy or stiff should play a real grand piano for a while. One worth playing, that is -- there are some grands with very light (poor) actions.

 

If you're used to upright actions (or what passes for 'action' in most uprights), sure it feels heavy. Be thankful!

 

It used to be that a very heavy action was best, as a practically unqualified statement. Then, in the 70's IIRC, Yamaha and some other Japanese pianos came out with much lighter actions that were still quite dynamic and responsive. Shortly thereafter, many other piano companies re-examined their actions and started actually making advances again, and most grand piano actions made today are better as a result of innovation.

 

The CP70 action was actually lighter than the newer, typical Yamaha grand actions of the day, and much lighter than Steinways of the time.

 

Sure, it feels heavy to me, today, but that's because I'm used to my Ensoniq which has a rather light action for a fully-weighted keyboard -- a great compromise since it's a synth, not just a digital piano.