half time show question

[Cymbals]

Ok, so what's the deal - is the half time show pre-recorded or not? I missed pre-game, but I know that usually than national anthem is pre-recorded. For the halftime, it looked like at least some background vocals for Shania were triggered, or ADAT'd or whatever, but I did hear some notes from Sting that made me wonder if it was live. The No Doubt/Sting performance was pretty good I thought. And the sound was pretty good by the time they came on. So which is it? Live or not? Bonus points for post-game performance info.

[phaeton]

(halftime show was the only thing i watched) I noticed that shania was triggered and autotuned. Did you check out her band? 3 electric guitars, 1 `acoustic', a bass and kb... overkill perhaps? I was actually rather impressed with the no doubt/sting thing. They did that well. I'll probably get flamed, but i didn't think that No Doubt had it in them to play a real genuine Police song note for note like that. For the most part, it looked like when Sting was singing, it was for real, yet there was a time where it looked like he blew it on lip syncing. Hard to say.

[gibsonez]

Pregame and Shania were pre-recorded. No Doubt, Sting, and Bon Jovi were not.

[patrick_dont_fret]

Haven't watched the Super Bowl since sometime in the past, when the Cowboys were playing. I can see how a No Doubt/Sting combo would suck...one excellent musician and a bunch of sellouts.

[rdpete]

Shania & Band - pre-recorded NoDoubt/Sting - Everything was 'live' except the 'main riff' in Message In A Bottle; either it was pre-recorded or somebody below the stage was playing it... Tom Dumont sure as hell wasn't... other than, kudos to No Doubt for actually playing.

[Dan South]

[quote]Originally posted by gibsonez: [b]Pregame and Shania were pre-recorded. No Doubt, Sting, and Bon Jovi were not.[/b][/quote]The pre-game was live except for Michelle Branch, who lip synched rather sloppily. What's the deal? It doesn't seem like a difficult song to sing.

[surfmonkey]

yeah I believe that No Doubt was live. Sting was definitely live because there were some funky harmonies between Sting and Gwen. Shania was a waste of time. Why bother to perform live if everything is taped?

[jschmidt]

"Tom Dumont sure as hell wasn't... other than, kudos to No Doubt for actually playing" There was a black guy playing guitar too, in the back of the stage.... they showed him at the end of the song. Maybe he was playing the opening riff and the little solo fills at the end.

[fantasticsound]

Everyone's leaving out The Dixie Chicks and Celine Dion. Celine's performance of "America, The Beautiful" sounded like a recording, but who knows. I don't like her, but you can't argue she has an amazing voice. The Chicks definitely sung the national anthem. It was the best performance of the anthem I've heard in some time. I would think they sung to tracks, as I didn't see any orchestra on screen. ;)

[phaeton]

btw, if i may say... Sting is a pretty kewl dewd, sifting through the work he's done (as recorded in my memory). I dig his driving basslines in a ton of stuff.

[Jotown]

[quote]Originally posted by Dan South: [b] [quote]Originally posted by gibsonez: [b]Pregame and Shania were pre-recorded. No Doubt, Sting, and Bon Jovi were not.[/b][/quote]The pre-game was live except for Michelle Branch, who lip synched rather sloppily. What's the deal? It doesn't seem like a difficult song to sing.[/b][/quote]It's not. That is if you actually can sing. :D

[cerumen]

1st half of no doubt/sting performance was tape....when sting comes in...it's live vocals...and live band...big difference in the drum sound between the two songs...i could swear the drummer missed the first toms after the 1st chorus on message in the bottle...pretty sure they were playing to a tape...but boy... did they suck as a back up band for Sting...My appreciation for Sting as a performer went up....Too bad people don't realize it's not that easy to just play...most people will probably say that Sting sucked with No Doubt... hahah

[rdpete]

[quote]Originally posted by jschmidt: [b]"Tom Dumont sure as hell wasn't... other than, kudos to No Doubt for actually playing" There was a black guy playing guitar too, in the back of the stage.... they showed him at the end of the song. Maybe he was playing the opening riff and the little solo fills at the end.[/b][/quote]I didn't see that guy, jschmidt... I just know that Tom wasn't playing the arpeggiated riff (he was just playing chords)... it's a kind of a finger stretch, just like Every Breath You Take.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Aaaaaack! [i]Everything[/i] was pre-recorded and lip-synched except for the entire No Doubt/Sting performance (which was great, IMHO). That includes Celine Dion, Dixie Chicks, Santana & Pals and Shania. Shania managed to give one of the first "live" performances that featured pre-recorded [i]and[/i] autotuned vocals. Nice job, Shania. I'm sure Mutt is proud. :rolleyes: - Jeff

[rdpete]

it could have been worse... they could have had Advil Lavigne on there?

[pigknuckles]

With 30 second ad's going for 2mil you'd best believe every second counts during the superbowl. There is no margin for error to allow live performances which may start or end at undefined times. For many years ALL the pre-game shows have been pre-records for this reason. Many/most half time shows have also been pre-records. Most artists practice very hard to deliver a convincing lip-sync for the event. Some are just more convincing than others.

[fantasticsound]

[quote]Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy: [b]Aaaaaack! [i]Everything[/i] was pre-recorded and lip-synched except for the entire No Doubt/Sting performance (which was great, IMHO). That includes Celine Dion, Dixie Chicks, Santana & Pals and Shania. - Jeff[/b][/quote]Until now, I have always respected your opinion, Jeff, but I guess we were watching two different shows. Santana's guitar definitely sounded live. As for the band, I can't say. I [i]was[/i] miffed that the broadcast mix had [i]no[/i] bass or kit. I must've watched the kit drummer and a percussionist hit cymbals 3 or 4 times with no sound. :D Beyonce was also live. You could clearly hear the ambience of the stadium, with live audience reinforcement bleed, in the vocal and guitar amp mics. The Dixie Chicks, as I said before, did a wonderful job. But it was [i]not[/i] spot on! I believe they were also live. [quote]originally posted by pigknuckles: [b]...For many years ALL the pre-game shows have been pre-records for this reason...[/b][/quote]Anyone whose mixed for a name country act can tell you you don't need tracks to hit marks for TV. It's easy. Most modern country acts play to a click, so time is not an issue. The networks do use tracks for seemless performances, but it's more about making the broadcast sound like a CD and simplification of setup/teardown when you have few seconds to do it than timing. I didn't see most of the Sting performance, but I suspect his vocals were live. Wireless microphones don't need wires of any kind at the stage, so setup/teardown isn't an issue. At that point, it's up to the artist/network to decide how much compromise they're willing to live with concerning sound quality.

[Cymbals]

Lots of different answers... 1)Jeff - lots of times you have the inside info - are you going on an educated guess, or facts? 2)This also goes for anyone as well, that 'knows' the answer. If they are merely opinions (best guesses), please state them as such for clarification. 3)Interesting debate! I'm really curious on whole a production like this occurs - especially if the one post about the first half of the No Doubt/Sting thing was pre-recorded. When I first heard the first couple of notes - I half expected to see Stewart Copeland behind the kit before I saw No Doubt backing him up. I did hear the drums a lot more this year (tom fills, etc). Usually that stuff gets lost on a TV game mix, so I was happy. 4)Also, when Shania went into the crowd, if it was live, wouldn't you have heard more crowd bleed with all those (hired) people shouting and cheering around her - or is the axis rejection *really* that great when applied with a noise gate? Finally (OT) - how does the 'crowd' get hired that are down on the field? Is it a dancing company or modeling agency perhaps? Thanks for any info!

[velvetoceansound]

Okay, how about this: Durring the end of the Sting/ND thingy, there's fireworks going off about 40 feet behind them. I listened very closely and not one boom or thump from the fireworks made it into the vocal mics or drum OH's (which, if it was live, would have been quite necessary.) Do you think the mic pickup patterns could have really been that tight?

[Danny M]

My take on the subject: Audience/ firework bleed can easily be mixed with pre-recorded tracks to make them sound more "real." Since nothing is coming out of the guitar amp or the singer's mouth anyway, the "simulation of a mic in the center of a stadium, pointing at a guitar amp" will be quite real. :D However, it is rumored that Line 6 is partnering with Antares to create a modeler to accomplish the same thing. :D :wave: Shania was, in my opinion, clearly not singing. Her lip-sync was always almost, but not quite, a match for the vocals. During the part on the ramp, as was mentioned before, there was absolutely no noise from the crowd. There was also a point where she blatantly stopped singing to turn around...DURING a vocal part. Her band didn't fake very well either. The violin players dumped their instruments into the crowd right in the middle of a section where the music was still going. Near the end of her performance, the guitar players gathered around her...and didn't change hand positions at all when the chords changed. (Well, they did, at least, pick a bit differently.) Sting and No Doubt actually seemed live to me. At least they did a better job of acting, if they weren't live. Does it bug me? Not in the least. It was a "show," not a "concert." (A question of semantics perhaps, but nevertheless.) As Styx said: "Just remember that/ It's a grand illusion..." -Danny

[Felix_dup1]

I'm with Jeff - I think that everything was prerecorded except for the Sting/No Doubt thing. My question is - are there legitimate production challenges that justify doing things this way?

[strat0124]

Shania and band looked like a fashion show that would be given at Graceland. Lip sync fo sho, it was clear Gwen and Sting performed live.

[Rick K.]

Funny, Danny! I noticed the guitar player's left hand, too. He was playing the same bar chord! I am curious as to a couple of mentions of Autotuning. How did you determine that?? Personally, I cannot stand Shania, except to look at her! I really think they could have done better! Perhaps more Americans in the show? Not trying to bitch and whine, but we certainly have our share of incredible entertainers and our version of 'Football' is unique to the US! Celine, Shania, Sting--all foreigners! Rick

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

[quote]Originally posted by Cymbals: [b]1)Jeff - lots of times you have the inside info - are you going on an educated guess, or facts?[/b][/quote]This time, it's inside info. Keep in mind that several of the artists would have preferred [i]not[/i] to have it this way, but it's up to the producer. Goo Goo Dolls: Complete lip synch. Santana: NOPE! Not playing! Sad! :( Beyonce: Nice job...of lip-synching. Really, I mean that in a nice way. Michelle Brach: Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha...not even close to live. Literally the album track playing back. Celine Dion: The worst of all...they were playing the [i]very[/i] identifiable recording she did of "God Bless America", arranged and produced by David Foster. She had also lip-synched this tune the first time she "performed" it on the post-9/11 TV special. Dixie Chicks: Again, a talented bunch of gals, really. But that was a recording of "The National Anthem", which is a tune I doubt you'll ever hear sung live at a Super Bowl again. Shania Twain: Again, let me state...an autotuned track that was pre-recorded, using the album tracks as the basis for the song-shortened montage mix that Mutt did. And finally...the silver lining behind the cloud... No Doubt: Almost completely live. There are a couple of parts that are playing back from a certain hard disk recorder, but Gwen, Tom, Tony and Adrian were actually singing and playing their instruments live...perhaps the only ones to do so the whole day. Sting/No Doubt: See above. Nicely done. For the youngsters on this forum, the tune "Message in a Bottle" was one of the Police's earlier semi-hits, following the first album's "Roxanne" and "Can't Stand Losing You". It was a cover that No Doubt used to play when they were doing backyard parties in Anaheim. Must have been fuun doing it with Sting. And damn, Gwennie looks good. :love: I didn't bother watching Bon Jovi, whose performance aired [i]after[/i] the game (is that a dis or what?). I was too depressed about the Raiders getting blown out, and I really have no love for Bon Jovi even under the best of circumstances. - Jeff - Jeff

[Gus Lozada]

[quote]Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy: [b]Dixie Chicks: Again, a talented bunch of gals, really. But that was a recording of "The National Anthem", which is a tune I doubt you'll ever hear sung live at a Super Bowl again. [/b][/quote]... what a Bummer. I was impressed with the girls voices... and most of all, impressed about that HIGHLY sensitive microphone they used... one Mic for the three girls... awesome technology :D

[Rick K.]

Gee wiz, Jeff! Next you're going to tell us that there is no Santa, Tooth Fairy, or Easter Bunny! Rick

[Botch.]

I was pretty sure the No Doubt/Sting portion was live, but what surprised me was that Gwen and Mr. Sting used floor wedge monitors; I thought that would be much more of a gamble with feedback etc than in-ear monitors would be (we did our first gig Friday night with 3/4 in-ear monitors, so I'm noticing things like that right now). Also, I'd be curious to know, is Liberace's old jeweler now working for Shania? [i]Shi-i-i-iny Bubbles!![/i] :D :love:

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

[quote]Originally posted by Botch.: [b]Also, I'd be curious to know, is Liberace's old jeweler now working for Shania? [i]Shi-i-i-iny Bubbles!![/i] :D :love: [/b][/quote]You will hear no complaints from me regarding Ms. Twain's choice of appparel for the show! :) - Jeff

[fantasticsound]

[quote]Originally posted by Botch.: [b]I was pretty sure the No Doubt/Sting portion was live, but what surprised me was that Gwen and Mr. Sting used floor wedge monitors; I thought that would be much more of a gamble with feedback etc than in-ear monitors would be (we did our first gig Friday night with 3/4 in-ear monitors, so I'm noticing things like that right now.[/b][/quote]Actually, with a modern concert system that has been properly rung out, feedback on a stage like Santana's or No Doubt/Sting should be a non-issue. I once watched Gino, who at the time (if not now) was Sheryl Crow's monitor engineer, ring out a Clair 12AM system for Cinderella. It was absolutely [i]clear as a bell[/i], but so loud I could not stand to be onstage! Not one instance of feedback. Just for reference, during the performance, the AT rep was hitting peaks of 140dB SPL at FOH, which was abnormally placed 26 feet from the stage and FOH speakers. (2 Clair S4's) This was a performance at MARS Nashville. I could barely stand to be there [i]with[/i] earplugs (sitting next to the SPL meter remote mic, shooting video), but again, not one instance of feedback.

[Cymbals]

Jeff, you are too cool! Thanks for the info. Now how does one end up on the field at halftime cheering away (and most likely hired)??? How people end up in certain jobs always amazes me!