FOH advice: motion sound pro3t

[Phred]

I have the following set up as far as amplification goes vk7->pro3t(rotor)->amp kurz-me1->amp.

 

This works really great for gigs that I don't use any other pa. If I am in control of the sound, I can get it the way that I want it.

 

Now, what do I do to go into a PA? The question is mostly about, how do I send the rotor and the bass seperately to the sound guy such that he mixes it 'correctly'. Anyone doing this with success?

[David Loving]

Take a cable plugged in to the right output jack on the front panel through a direct box to the PA. Option: If you have a pro3tm sent one upper horn mic to the PA; or you could just mic the horn. I had usually just sent the low sim from the righthand jack to the pa and it worked ok.

[Phred]

pro3tm. Yup.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

I guess I know how, just not sure if there is something special to do to make sure that the mix is okay. Do typical sound guys understand the horn/bass being seperate things?

 

Sould I play F5 with the fundamental freq and ask the FOH guy to make sure the volume levels are equal? Should I ask him to 'use his judgement'...

[Analogaddict]

Get a mixer.

[Phred]

Hmm... Good idea...

[David Loving]

Get to the gig early and do your own sound check to see for your self. Have somebody else play the organ while you consult with the sound guy. That's what I'd do if it was an issue. Before, I'd just buy him a drink and ask him to make me sound good.

[Mr. Nightime]

I've got my own little PA for on-stage sound. I run the mike from the Pro3TM into a channel, and the low rotor sim into a stereo channel. I just run off my mixer to the PA, so both sections of the Pro3's sound go through the PA.

[David Loving]

Phred,

 

Click on one of Mr. N's links and there's a picture of his set up. It's real cool.

[Mr. Nightime]

That would be the www.mrnightime.com link.

[Mr. Nightime]

Originally posted by daviel:

Phred,

 

Click on one of Mr. N's links and there's a picture of his set up. It's real cool.

Thanks!!!!

[Phred]

wow- that is a nice setup.

[Mr. Nightime]

Does the job for me

[Bill H.]

Originally posted by Phred:

Sould I play F5 with the fundamental freq and ask the FOH guy to make sure the volume levels are equal? Should I ask him to 'use his judgement'...

If your sound guy is experienced he's going to want to favor the horn. This is not bad... let him. It's your best chance to be heard cleanly out front.

 

If you think his mix should perfectly mimic your stage sound, go out in the room while the band is going full tilt with someone else on keys. This was a hard truth for me to swallow for years, but I think I'm finally getting it.

[Mr. Nightime]

Originally posted by Bill H.:

If your sound guy is experienced he's going to want to favor the horn. This is not bad... let him. It's your best chance to be heard cleanly out front.

 

That's the exact reason that I run the horn mike through my mixer and through my amp. I've had to replace the driver diaphram once, so I want to run it not as loud. By running into the amp I can adjust the balance between the two, favoring the horn. I like to hear the horn spool up and down at a higher level than the drum sim.

[Chris Link]

I have the chance to pick up a used Pro 3Tm at a reasonable price. Lately, I've been running my Nord Electro + S90 into a Mackie 1202VLZPro with one main output stereo pair into a Motion Sound KS200 and (if that's not enough volume) another pair of outputs to the PA. Exactly where would the Pro 3Tm fit into this set-up and is it worth it sound-wise?

 

I've yet to see any reviewers who don't like the Pro 3Tm and will probably take the plunge.

 

Thanks in advance for the advice.

[Mr. Nightime]

I run a 1202VLZ and the Pro3tm

I'll run a line from the mike output on the back of the Pro3 to a channel, and the lows in stereo to one of the stereo pairs.

 

When I ran the Korg N364 as my organ source, I configured output 3 for the organ sounds and ran it into the Pro3 input. I'm not sure if the Nord has more than the stereo outputs, but if it does and you can configure them like that, that's a good way to go. That will get your organ sounds to the Pro3, while the other sounds bypass it.

[Chris Link]

Thanks, Mr. Nightime.

 

The Electro has a pair of 1/4 stereo outs and also a 1/4 stereo headphone output. Some of the Electro folks use the headphone out to their amp for the hotter signal, so that would be one option, I suppose. I use the Lelsie sim on the Electro for Rhodes and Wurli on occasion, so it's not strictly necessary to isolate the organ output.

 

So, would the Electro go into the Pro 3Tm and then to the mixer and then to the KS 200 and/or PA? Am I picturing this correctly?

[Mr. Nightime]

Sounds right to me.

[Chris Link]

Thanks.

[Jon May]

I have an older Pro3T into which I mounted a microphone(cheap Bheringer...forgive me). The low rotor sim goes into one channel of a Peavey KB100 amp. Horn(mike) goes straight to a channel on PA, low rotor goes to seperate PA channel via the line out from the back of the Peavey. I have to trust Mr Mixer to balance the levels. It took a while to school him up on the function of Leslie's in general and the desirability of handling highs and lows seperately.

 

A complication is that my piano sounds go direct into a different channel on the Peavey (by passing the Pro3T) but end up going to the same PA channel as the low sim, via the line out. So Mr Mixer had to actively ride the level on that PA channel so as to compromise between pianos and low sim, whichever was prevalent. I suspect that as the night wore on such active mixing fell by the wayside

[Steve Nathan]

There is little you can do that is meaningful beyond asking to be miked in whatever way will most likely duplicate to the house, what you create on stage. From that point on, you are at the mercy of the sound person. Don't waste energy on something you can't control. Just play! (and have a good time).

[eric]

Originally posted by misterdregs:

Thanks, Mr. Nightime.

 

The Electro has a pair of 1/4 stereo outs and also a 1/4 stereo headphone output. Some of the Electro folks use the headphone out to their amp for the hotter signal, so that would be one option, I suppose. I use the Lelsie sim on the Electro for Rhodes and Wurli on occasion, so it's not strictly necessary to isolate the organ output.

 

So, would the Electro go into the Pro 3Tm and then to the mixer and then to the KS 200 and/or PA? Am I picturing this correctly?

Actually, you need to do this a little bit differently and you will have to forgo true stereo on the Electro, unfortunately. You want to run the Electro in "hard pan" mode (a toggle done in the Electro's software - I think it is shift + 8 and then find the H0 setting and move it to H1). This sends the Electro organ sounds to one of the outputs and the EP/clav/etc. to the other output. You would then pump the organ output into the Pro3T and send the other line into the mixer going to the KP200s. The Pro3T's lower rotor sim channels could go to your mixer and then to the KP200s. If you want to mike the Pro3T, then send that line into your mixer as well.

 

But the Pro3T is simulating a Leslie speaker with actual moving air (decent compromise) and you probably want to separate your organ sounds from your EP/clav/etc. sounds on the Electro. I use my Electro in a similar duty running through a Speakeasy Roadbox and I use the hard pan feature.

 

Regards,

Eric

[Chris Link]

Thanks, Eric.

 

I use some Leslie sim on some of the Rhodes and wurli patches on the Electro. Would it work to run both organ and piano through the Pro 3Tm and then into the amp? Are there stereo inputs on the Pro 3Tm? The owner's manual is not really clear and doesn't have a diagram of the input panel and controls.

 

"A typical setting for mono (right/mono out only) operation is 6-8. This is another personal taste adjustment and will depend on whether you play bass and the type of amplification equipment that is used. In stereo (both left and right outputs), left-right channel separation is controlled. The Amplitude Modulation controlled effect is predominately on the right channel only.

 

Pseudo stereo tip: If you are using a mono PA, feed the right/mono out to a mono PA system and the left out to your keyboard amp. This provides an interesting spacial effect for the low rotor simulator. (The microphone output is also fed to the PA.)"

 

http://www.motion-sound.com/Owner%20Manuals/PRO-3Tm%20owners%20manual.pdf#search=%22PRO-3Tm%22

 

Also, I know the Leslie sim on the NE in the "brake" position is not the same as "off", but is a nice effect in and of itself. (I presume this is similar to a real Leslie- never had one myself.) Am I right that I would not be able to get a "plain" Rhodes or Wurli sound if the signal went through the Pro3Tm? If this is the case, would I be better off using the hard pan split you describe and adding the Leslie sim effect for the EPs from the NE?

 

Sorry for all the lengthy questions, but I'd like to be sure this will work for me before pluging on ahead.

 

Thanks.

[Mr. Nightime]

Originally posted by misterdregs:

Thanks, Eric.

 

I use some Leslie sim on some of the Rhodes and wurli patches on the Electro. Would it work to run both organ and piano through the Pro 3Tm and then into the amp? Are there stereo inputs on the Pro 3Tm? The owner's manual is not really clear and doesn't have a diagram of the input panel and controls.

 

"A typical setting for mono (right/mono out only) operation is 6-8. This is another personal taste adjustment and will depend on whether you play bass and the type of amplification equipment that is used. In stereo (both left and right outputs), left-right channel separation is controlled. The Amplitude Modulation controlled effect is predominately on the right channel only.

 

Pseudo stereo tip: If you are using a mono PA, feed the right/mono out to a mono PA system and the left out to your keyboard amp. This provides an interesting spacial effect for the low rotor simulator. (The microphone output is also fed to the PA.)"

 

http://www.motion-sound.com/Owner%20Manuals/PRO-3Tm%20owners%20manual.pdf#search=%22PRO-3Tm%22

 

Also, I know the Leslie sim on the NE in the "brake" position is not the same as "off", but is a nice effect in and of itself. (I presume this is similar to a real Leslie- never had one myself.) Am I right that I would not be able to get a "plain" Rhodes or Wurli sound if the signal went through the Pro3Tm? If this is the case, would I be better off using the hard pan split you describe and adding the Leslie sim effect for the EPs from the NE?

 

Sorry for all the lengthy questions, but I'd like to be sure this will work for me before pluging on ahead.

 

Thanks.

The Pro3TM has one input. It is strictly mono with the input. What is was referring to for the pseudo-stereo was the outputs for the lows sim.

 

The Pro3TM HAS a brake setting. the footswitch has 2 switches, Fast/slow & Stop. That woould allow you to run the Rhodes/Whurly sound without the Leslie effect.

 

The spacial control it was talking about is the seperation of the two outputs for the lows. You can adjust just how far apart they seem to be in the stereo effect. If you run out of just the mono side, it acts like a depth control, adjusting how pronounced the effect is.

[eric]

Originally posted by misterdregs:

Thanks, Eric.

 

I use some Leslie sim on some of the Rhodes and wurli patches on the Electro. Would it work to run both organ and piano through the Pro 3Tm and then into the amp? Are there stereo inputs on the Pro 3Tm? The owner's manual is not really clear and doesn't have a diagram of the input panel and controls.

 

"A typical setting for mono (right/mono out only) operation is 6-8. This is another personal taste adjustment and will depend on whether you play bass and the type of amplification equipment that is used. In stereo (both left and right outputs), left-right channel separation is controlled. The Amplitude Modulation controlled effect is predominately on the right channel only.

 

Pseudo stereo tip: If you are using a mono PA, feed the right/mono out to a mono PA system and the left out to your keyboard amp. This provides an interesting spacial effect for the low rotor simulator. (The microphone output is also fed to the PA.)"

 

http://www.motion-sound.com/Owner%20Manuals/PRO-3Tm%20owners%20manual.pdf#search=%22PRO-3Tm%22

 

Also, I know the Leslie sim on the NE in the "brake" position is not the same as "off", but is a nice effect in and of itself. (I presume this is similar to a real Leslie- never had one myself.) Am I right that I would not be able to get a "plain" Rhodes or Wurli sound if the signal went through the Pro3Tm? If this is the case, would I be better off using the hard pan split you describe and adding the Leslie sim effect for the EPs from the NE?

 

Sorry for all the lengthy questions, but I'd like to be sure this will work for me before pluging on ahead.

 

Thanks.

You are on the right track. The reason for doing the hard pan is so you CAN get a clean, un-Leslified Rhodes or clav sound. In hard pan mode, you can still use the Electro's braked Leslie sim on the Rhodes sounds and it works fine. You would, however, want to turn the Leslie sim OFF altogether for all the organ sounds going through the Pro3T. Leslie sim stacked upon real rotary is not desirable.

 

Like Mr. Nightime said, you CAN brake the Pro3T, so if you really wanted to, you could simply run everything through it and not do the hard pan. However, you won't be able to achieve a clean Rhodes sound even with the brake engaged on the Pro3T. Since you have the gear to handle the multiple outs, I see no reason why you should not use the hard pan feature on the Electro. Send organ to the Pro3T - mono in, with stereo out from the Pro3T lower simulator circuit into your mixer. Send Rhodes/etc. to your mixer. Works like a charm.

 

Regards,

Eric

[Chris Link]

Thanks for clearing up everything.

 

(Well, maybe not everything... I mean, what do you think about the promotion of democratic reform in the Middle East as a means of lessening the appeal of Islamic radicalism?)

 

Just kidding, please start a new thread to discuss geopolitics.

 

Thanks, guys. I think I'll plunge on in to the world of honest-to-God real air-moving rotary sound. The Pro 3T would be a good match with the MS KP200-S, no?

[Chris Link]

The Pro 3Tm arrived yesterday afternoon, but I didn't have much time until today to mess around with it. We rehearsed last night and I didn't want to spend the whole evening screwing around with a new piece of gear.

 

Opened the box and got a big whiff of whatever plastic bed-liner stuff they cover their amps with. I guess it's the equivalent of "new car smell".

 

I've got it set up using the hard pan to seperate the organ and piano sounds from the Electro, as suggested earlier. I suppose the EPs probably lose a little not running in stereo (the Leslie sim, for sure), but it's more than adequate. Right now, it is set up with the Pro 3Tm running directly into the MS KP200S. I had some 3' speaker cables made with right angle connectors so that the Pro3Tm can sit on top without the cables getting in the way. (The footprint is larger than the KP200S.) I also picked up some right angle cables to connect the other (piano) channel from the Electro as well as the S90.

 

Playing gigs, I can see where a mixer would be advantageous since all the controls for the KP200S are on the back upper edge and are covered up by the Pro 3Tm. Ah well, it's a work in progress.

 

I ended up getting mine direct from Motion Sound as a close out. It is listed with their "demo" gear, but was made new when ordered. Full warranty. The MS people are nice as anything on the phone, but don't answer emails and instead of the 3-4 weeks promised, it was six weeks (and one day).

 

Here's the link. It looks like they have parts available to make three more.

 

http://www.motion-sound.com/demo_gear2.htm

 

Edit: As I am sitting here typing, I can hear a faint sound of the rotor swirling around. That's much cooler than a Leslie sim.