Bunny Knutson Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Verizon was forced yesterday, by a U.S. District Court judge, to divulge the identity of one of its customers who had made hundreds of copyrighted music files available online. This is probably bad news for internet music consumers, whose privacy may no longer be protected. If you ever downloaded any copyrighted songs from a P2P, watch out! They're out to get ya! Your ISP may be forced to identify you. [url=http://www.billboard.com/billboard/daily/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1801298]Click here for the story in Billboard.[/url] https://bunny.bandcamp.com/ https://theystolemycrayon.bandcamp.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Hey bunny, if you notice it's not people who download they're going after it's people who upload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintagevibe Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 If someone stole my music and was disibuting it on the internet without my permission they should go to jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Knutson Posted January 22, 2003 Author Share Posted January 22, 2003 Wewus, yeah, I noticed, but who do you think is next? I probably should've worded my alarmist statement differently, but I was trying to get a reaction. ;) Anyway, I just wanted to inform everybody that THEY'RE COMING FOR YOU!!! RUN FOR THE HILLS!!! :D I don't d/l from P2Ps, so I got nothing to worry about. You can't trace burned CDs! ;) https://bunny.bandcamp.com/ https://theystolemycrayon.bandcamp.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Knutson Posted January 22, 2003 Author Share Posted January 22, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by dino321: [b]If someone stole my music and was disibuting it on the internet without my permission they should go to jail.[/b][/quote]"Go to jail," huh? Don't you think that's a little harsh? How 'bout a big fine? Is your music really worth sending someone to jail for? https://bunny.bandcamp.com/ https://theystolemycrayon.bandcamp.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franknputer Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Sheesh - how dumb can they be?!? Someone should sue the majors for all of the programmed crap they've been pushing, calling it 'music'. That's false advertising! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintagevibe Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by dBunny: [b] [quote]Originally posted by dino321: [b]If someone stole my music and was disibuting it on the internet without my permission they should go to jail.[/b][/quote]"Go to jail," huh? Don't you think that's a little harsh? How 'bout a big fine? Is your music really worth sending someone to jail for?[/b][/quote]Ok maybe that is harsh. A fat fine would be in order though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Well we've been all up and down, inside and out of this issue. Personally I use the internet like I used to use radio, to find and sample new music. I think their main motivation behind stopping downloading of MP3's is to kill independents. They don't want you to have too many choices, they want you to buy what they got. On a side note, evil robots are taking over the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Knutson Posted January 22, 2003 Author Share Posted January 22, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]Well we've been all up and down, inside and out of this issue.[/b][/quote]So, should we just ignore further developments as they occur? ;) < [i]Am I gonna have to kick yer ass, Wewus?[/i] :evil: > Hey, you're right about the evil robots, though. HEAD FOR THE HILLS!!! THE WEWUSBOTS ARE COMING!!! :freak: :p https://bunny.bandcamp.com/ https://theystolemycrayon.bandcamp.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 This is utterly ridiculous. The ISP was not hosting the files, and is not responsible or obligated to identify a file sharer. Once again, [b]The Man[/b] is bending the rules as he sees fit. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by trip-hop Jeebus: [b]This is utterly ridiculous. The ISP was not hosting the files, and is not responsible or obligated to identify a file sharer. Once again, [b]The Man[/b] is bending the rules as he sees fit. :mad: [/b][/quote]I'm not saying I like this precedent, but I believe you're incorrect. If a crime is commited using a rental car, the government can subpoena information regarding who rented the vehicle at the time it was used to break the law. The subscriber used Verizon's connectivity product to commit these alleged crimes. In essence, they've rented time on Verizon's servers to login. I am not a lawyer and I haven't read the opinion, but I suspect the law that allows the gov't to subpoena the rental car company is the same one the judge used to decide this case. We'll see what happens on appeal. Should be v-e-r-y i-n-t-e-r-e-s-t-i-n-g...... It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 posted by dbunny: [quote] So, should we just ignore further developments as they occur? [/quote]No, thanks for the update. What I meant was I don't want to get into that debate about, yes it's stealing, no it's not, you're a scumbag, no I'm not you're a repressed, old fart, right wing psycho. Gotta go, robots are trying to get in the house through my heating vents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrides Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]posted by dbunny: [QUOTE]Gotta go, robots are trying to get in the house through my heating vents.[/b][/quote]I saw that espisode of the Twilight Zone.....a classic for sure..... In the near future a stoned college student will realize that "Soy Milk" in Spanish means "I am milk" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotown Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 One thing I have been saying all along, regrdless of where you stand on file sharing. In the end, if people do not police themselves, the man will step in and do it for you. This is just the beginning, and it is going to spread into other areas, like freedom of speech. Folks push the limits, and push the limits, eventually the government will steps in. Especially the current regime. Hold onto your DSL cables people. Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathtoallwhoopposeme Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 This is Very very very bad news and i can't see how it's legal....Hopefully it's overturned upon appeal........ Sean Michael Mormelo www.seanmmormelo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogfur Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]I think their main motivation behind stopping downloading of MP3's is to kill independents. [/b][/quote]Ahh, give that man a cigar! The control of the distribution is the prize here, and has been for quite some time in the music biz... Woof! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Ratte Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 The new issue of Wired has a good series of articles on this stuff. I agree with what they're saying, the old label model is on its way out. Music doesn't cost anything to record these days, you can find somebody who'll do it for a pizza or you do it yourself. The numbers are all wrong anyways for the major label stuff. There's no money for you. Britney Spears and N'Sync carry the whole industry on their shoulders. And everybody else dreams about catching their little bitty crumbs. Hoping the new Timberlake solo CD sells to fund our little money-losing vanity project. And make us famous and rich. Pay attention to meeeeeeeeee. So much fear. A buncha you guys on here clutching at whatever dreams you've carried since your teen years. Dude, it's OVER. Gotta come up with some new ideas. CMDN is doing it. I like reading his travelogues, presenting his music firsthand to a passionate audience. That's some really awesome human communication right there, which is what it's supposed to be about anyways. I think this will only help music. With the big-money motive gone, maybe we'll hear fewer puerile tunes that exist only as a cynical money crapshoot. However, the impending robots-of-doom scenario is a much bigger problem. G. Ratte' http://www.cultdeadcow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]it's not people who download they're going after it's people who upload.[/b][/quote]As soon as you download something,and someone starts downloading that same file from you that's now in your shared folder,that's what P-to-P considers uploading.But seriously,if they try and go after everyone they'll be spending eternity in court.They might try and make an example of a few,but the only way they can stop anything is to go after the P-to-P's themselves.However though,once your indentified they might try and restrict IP accsess which will force everyone into sattelite hacking for free IP access like the Germans are now doing,and Verizons reward for helping out is a loss of at least 40-60% of it's paid customer base.Realistically though,people will get MP3's through ftp's like theyr'e already doing and the old IRC.Actually those last 2 options are actually seeing way more action than P-to-P these days,and the people trying to put a stop to illeagle downloads are way off track and behind the ball again as usual. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmix Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by gratte: [b] Music doesn't cost anything to record these days, you can find somebody who'll do it for a pizza or you do it yourself. I think this will only help music. With the big-money motive gone, maybe we'll hear fewer puerile tunes that exist only as a cynical money crapshoot. .[/b][/quote]Music doesn't cost anything to make ? What pipe dream are you living in ? There's no question that it is now possible to make great music in your bedroom but the reality is things like orchestra's still cost money. Great sounding drum rooms still cost money. Great guitars, vintage mics, guest musicians, maybe a producer, an engineer who knows what the hell is going on, etc, etc. I'm all for independents but let's not lose sight of the fact that music will still suffer. Rob Rob Hoffman http://www.robmixmusic.com Los Angeles, CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Knutson Posted January 23, 2003 Author Share Posted January 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by robmix: [b] I'm all for independents but let's not lose sight of the fact that music will still suffer. [/b][/quote]Ouch! I was with you up until that statement. "Suffer"? Don't you agree that a lot of really good music would never have been released if it weren't for independent record labels? I'll go back to this old favorite: "I'd rather listen to a bad recording of a good song than a good recording of a bad song." ;) The above quote represents an extreme example. OF COURSE, I would rather listen to a good recording of a good song. DUH!!! Who wouldn't?!! I think people are REALLY missing the point. NOW, watch this thread go south... :rolleyes: https://bunny.bandcamp.com/ https://theystolemycrayon.bandcamp.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by dBunny: [b]Don't you agree that a lot of really good music would never have been released if it weren't for independent record labels? [/b][/quote]Of course,but a lot of talented people who put out stuff independently can't really afford to spend the time doing so anymore,because their too busy trying to make ends meet,but of course that won't stop the flood of wanna be independent releases. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Grace Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 ([i]Please note:[/i] Most of you know me as [b]soapbox[/b], but this post is under my real name.) How about if we put it this way then? Until equipment is free, until labor is free, and until real estate is free, music will always cost something to record. If that's true, then it follows that until top of the line equipment costs next to nothing, until great musicians, producers, engineers, arrangers, and songwriters work for next to nothing, and until superbly designed and crafted recording spaces rent for next to nothing, music recorded this way will always cost a fair amount to record. While some hobbyists can create truly great music, do we really want a world in which only hobbyists can afford to make music? While independent labels often create great music, how do the people who work on these releases feel about their income levels? Do many musicians, producers, engineers, arrangers, and songwriters make a good living this way? Personally, I know I'm lucky to be a professional musician; but I'm also qualified to be a professional musician. As such, I feel that I deserve to be paid, just as any professional deserves to be paid. Just because I love music, does that mean I should have to do it for free or next to nothing? Do we really want a society in which people are only paid a decent wage to do jobs that they hate? I hope that people who discuss this issue here remember that a sizable minority of forum members are recording professionals whose incomes may have already been diminished due to record industry cutbacks. At the very least, there are few of us who don't feel threatened by current trends. The attitude that music costs nothing to record, turns a blind eye to our plight. Best, Geoff My Blue Someday appears on Apple Music | Spotify | YouTube | Amazon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by dBunny: [quote]Originally posted by robmix: I'm all for independents but let's not lose sight of the fact that music will still suffer. [/quote]Ouch! I was with you up until that statement. "Suffer"? Don't you agree that a lot of really good music would never have been released if it weren't for independent record labels? I'll go back to this old favorite: [b]"I'd rather listen to a bad recording of a good song than a good recording of a bad song." ;) [/b][/quote]You seem to be implying that you can only have one or the other. Personally, I'd rather listen to a great recording of a great song than either of your alternatives. I'm all for independents sharing their music, but not if it means, as Geoff described, that gifted professionals lose their livelyhood while I'm inundated with half-assed recordings of every wanna-be band. There has to be some middle ground, between the over-blown budgets for major label recordings, videos, and promotion, and the made-it-in-my-basement recordings that seem to be the bulk of MP3.com and the like. A friend of mine is what I would call an incredible success as a semi-pro sound engineer. I wish that most others with access to that level of gear had the common sense and ears to use it. My experience is, most don't. Great for making personal recordings, but I don't want to buy much of it. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmix Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by dBunny: [b] [quote]Originally posted by robmix: [b] I'm all for independents but let's not lose sight of the fact that music will still suffer. [/b][/quote]Ouch! I was with you up until that statement. "Suffer"? Don't you agree that a lot of really good music would never have been released if it weren't for independent record labels? I'll go back to this old favorite: "I'd rather listen to a bad recording of a good song than a good recording of a bad song." ;) [/b][/quote]Of course, maybe my post was misleading. What I'm saying is right in line with Geoff's post above. While some music sounds great when recorded in the bedroom on a 4-track, there's a whole world of music that requires big rooms with orchestras, session musicians, arrangers, good engineers, etc. If music becomes free who's going to pay for all that. Are we willing to say the end is here for big productions ? That there will never be another Pink Floyd or Beatles ? I work with indie's and majors; as a matter of fact, the record I'm starting next week is for a new indie label. I love the music and we're doing it at my house. But my budget is small, and while the recording will be great (I hope :) ), there's no question that we will be limited with regard to time and extra musicians. Everyone says that downloading will be the great equalizer and labels will be forced to put out better music. I disagree, with less money to be made labels are going to put out more Britney Spears records - the obvious pop swill that generates hundreds of millions of dollars. They're not going to take a chance on the next Train or Coldplay. Rob Rob Hoffman http://www.robmixmusic.com Los Angeles, CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathtoallwhoopposeme Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 I posted this on another thread however it seems relevant here too and i want people to see it so here it is: I agree but let me expound on this a bit. the Big labels have NEVER been about promoting art and talent. They are very very good at marketing shit, and making the most money from it possible. Now, the artists that are actually out there, of whom I do feel are for real, RARELY ever see a dime of Record company royalties anyway. Call it creative accounting, call it what you will but this is the truth. Most artists have to make their cash from other sources such as Live preformance, publishing to an extent and licnexing. Ok, so if the "Industry" collapses, i see if have very little impact on the true talent anyway. As far as Music Video's go, Artists can make their own, even if it's live performance stuff edited in Final Cut pro, Shot on DV cam, Embellished with After Effects, for a few grand.....And you would be suprised at how close to the technical wizardry level of todays Million dollar videos these kids on a budget can get on a MAC with the right tools and talent...Todays Video bugdets are overblown and unneeded and ultimately take away from the artists bottom line. The same thing can be for very little cash. So, the artist can easily stil have their stuff on VH1 or MTV without the big labels...As far as airplay, the big Media corporations will simply have to just stop charging hundreds of thousands of dollars to artists to play their songs because in the post bloated record industry era, the artists will not stand for the raping. With no music, the radio stations can't sell their advertizing as there will be no listeners. We'll all get XM and be done with the bastards....In this scenerio, more diversity on the airwaves is possible because the radio stations know they need the artist's music to attract the listeners and therebye sell them their crap via advertizing, therebye staying in business..Win, Win, Win..Finally....And Downloading will be a beatifull thing for the artists unencumbered by Big label pressurem because it's just great advertizing for their live shows..and KAZAA or any other downloading arean can NEVER match the energy or the magic that happens at a Live show. People will come in droves to see their favorite artists..They always have and always will but now the artists are free to actually make more money touring because they are not beholden to the record companies anymore and dont forget merchandising.....Artists will do Very very very well touring...They will probably be touring more steadily after the fall then before to keep maximum revenue coming in. I think ticket prices will fall as a result too and everyone will still make money....less greed...So, you can see that the real artists who are thinking creatively about the situation in the record industry, are not really worried about it's collapse......There will be rampant downloading, Music video's and radio will be even more accessable then before for more artists, and touring and merchandising will never go away. The only thing gone will be the ingnorant, greedy, no-ear-for-real-talent, bottom line monger, no creative talent accountant type record exec. weilding all the power to shape the musical landscape and influnce popular culture....I say it will be a good day for MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And if Hollywood isn't carefull, the same thing can happen to them..Hopefully they will see the writing on the wall by watchin the music industry implode and start putting out real meaningfull pictures..... Sean Michael Mormelo www.seanmmormelo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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