Wewus432 Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 I keep seeing these things all over the place, like the the Roland VM 3100 Pro, it started out at about $900.00 or more and now they're discounted to $400.00 or less and the bigger mixers are discounted even more. I saw the 7100 at Sweetwater's site and the original price is three grand and it's marked down to $899.00. So what gives here? Unpopular item? Major flaws?
Alndln Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 Theyv'e been out a while and are very nice,but like a lot of Roland stuff,was overpriced.Unlike other Roland products,they have more competition in this area.I'd say there making room for newer stuff. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows"
Wewus432 Posted January 22, 2003 Author Posted January 22, 2003 Hey Alndln: I know techristian owns one of these Roland mixers, maybe he'll check in. I'm just wondering if you can get 96 Khz from the digital outputs. It seems like one of the limitations on those mixers was you could only get a 44.1 Khz output. I was thinking about putting together a cheap Pro-Tools system using and AudioMedia III card and the 5.3.1 software. The analog ins and out are only 18 bit on that card BUT the digital in and out are 24 bit, so I was hoping you could do 24bit- 96Khz recording on a system like that with a mixer that had digital outs. Digidesign is releasing Asio drivers for that card and it's other products so I could still use that set up with my other software.
Alndln Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]BUT the digital in and out are 24 bit[/b][/quote]That's commonly misunderstood.Older and even newer consumer stereo Rca and optical SPDIF are limited to 20 bit,the extra 4 bits are reserved for data.Although hearing those extra 4 bits is another story,as is the ASIO driver quality on an older card such as this.Tread with caution,visit the DUC and see what other Audiomedia users are saying. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows"
Wewus432 Posted January 22, 2003 Author Posted January 22, 2003 Thanks Alndln, I thought it was kind of weird when I noticed the digital I/O on that card was 24 bit, a little too good to be true, but I'll check out the DUC. Those Roland mixers have the cheapest prices I've seen for a digital mixer, if they're any good at all it's a great deal.
Albert Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 The Roland 3100's only do 44.1k. There are some on-the-fly converters out there that will bump that to 48k, but I forget the name of them. We're talking buying used as well with those. I had a 3100PRO for a while and it really was not a bad little mixer at all. Very small footprint, sounded nice, lots of routing and features. They really should have included 48k on them, the lack of that makes no sense. I think the bigger 7100/7200 mixers will do 48k as well as 44.1. My understanding is that they will *not* do 96k. That is probably one reason among several why these mixers didn't take off. They were indeed over priced when they were released, in my opinion. If people were going to spend that much they were going for the Yamaha O2R. There are also issues with the screen updating slowly, but Roland may have streamlined that by now. The other issue is that the operating system/user interface is the typical convoluted Roland architecture. I found operation of the mixer to be less than intuitive when I checked them out. And I certainly was seriously considering them for a while. However, the 3100PRO is a really nice little small format mixer, and a great monitoring mixer for a DAW I would think. Other than the fact it won't do 48k. That's a perfect example of "what the heck were they thinking?".
not Cereal Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 i have an am3 running pt, and i can say its a pretty nice sounding card. in its day it was one of the best cards. these cards still pull 400-500 on ebay which i find bizarre i think the spdif input does NOT have 96k compatibility. 44.1/48 only i think. the analog inputs sound great, very smooth, not anywhere as crunchy as an 001 sounds.
Wewus432 Posted January 22, 2003 Author Posted January 22, 2003 Just reading around on the internet it appears that these mixers are limited to 44.1 Khz output, although everything else in the system supports 96K, and the box itself says 24/96 recording. That's one reason why they are so heavily discounted. There's some other limitations but it still seems like a lot of mixer for the money and very useable. If anyone's interested, here's a [url=http://emusician.com/ar/emusic_roland_vmpro/]review[/url] from Electronic Musician.
Felix_dup1 Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 I think the prices dropped because the product didn't sell at the old prices.
Wewus432 Posted January 22, 2003 Author Posted January 22, 2003 I'm really waiting to see what people say about the new Asio drivers for the AudioMedia and other Pro-Tools interfaces. If I could use that card with Pro Tools AND my other software it would be worth putting a little money into a system like that.
techristian Posted January 23, 2003 Posted January 23, 2003 As I said once before, I have already recorded 96 khz with this ONE TIME, using Cool Edit. There is also a 96 khz RADIO BUTTON in the RSP control panel. It is made for 96 khz but it is tricky to set up. Everything must be set correctly to do this though. You must remember that I'm using the Roland Studio Pack which is bundled with the VM-3100 PRO (not to be confused with the RSP PRO) The PRO may be the key here. Maybe the VM3100 alone won't cut it. Now that I have upgraded to WinXP pro I have noticed that the Roland driver has a new name and that the control panel has a few new options. (but I had the 96khz button in WinME also) The major reason that this package is discounted, is because it ISN'T EASY TO USE. There is a steep learning curve on both the Logic RPC software and the VM3100 PRO. The newer RSP PRO is easier to operate with better software, but may have things such as built in hardware effects missing. And I wouldn't pay $400 for the VM3100 alone. If I want another I could get a whole used RSP for the same price or even less. Dan http://musicinit.com/roland_index.html TEACHMEDRUMS.COM My Music Videos RED PILL
Wewus432 Posted January 23, 2003 Author Posted January 23, 2003 Thanks for the input Dan. I see there are a lot of issues with the VM-3100 but the price sure is attractive.
techristian Posted January 23, 2003 Posted January 23, 2003 In fact you will be able to see a picture of the RPC control panel at the link below which will show the [b]96 khz sample rate[/b] selector. (for those of you that don't believe it) Dan http://www.jesuspop.com/rolandq&a.html TEACHMEDRUMS.COM My Music Videos RED PILL
Super 8 Posted February 7, 2003 Posted February 7, 2003 Okay, now I'm getting curious about these things too. [url=http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VMBasic71/]CHECK OUT THIS LINK[/url] In particualar I like the small footprint and that breakout hub that can be rackmounted -which seems like an idea whose time has really come. With digital technology you have the freedom to focus on ergonomics rather than conventional design methods. I'm looking for a digital mixer. You guys cured me of my interest in the 01V. Valky got me thinking seriously about the Panasonic. I was really giving some serious thought to the Tascam too. The problem with them is the versatility I require. This won't be a mixer that sits in one place all of the time. It HAS to be portable. It needs to be able to hold up in environments that are typicial of live gigging/recording (read: smoke... :rolleyes: ). It also needs to sound reasonably good. Honestly though, I'm not as conserned over sound quality as many of you would be. This isn't audiophile stuff I'm doing, and if it ever gets to that point I would want a separate console that would stay in the studio. Just the same though, I need BANG for the BUCK. If it offers great functionality, but poor sound quality, then I'm really limiting myself in terms of recording. If it has good sound but poor functionality (i.e. Not very portable, poor automation/MIDI control/FX,EQ, ect) then it's limiting what I am able to use it for in a live situation. Also, I don't mind saving a grand or so I on purchase. As a musician, I have found it's best not to ever make much money. When I'm wealthy I tend to lose my 'edge' as opposed to when I'm 'down on my luck'. Poor musicians always sound better than rich ones. It's a scientific FACT! But I digress... I hate depending on one thing to do it all, because you generally end up with something that does a little of everything very badly. But, I'm simply not in a postition to hand pick a seperate device for each point on the signal path, and my business (thankfully) doesn't require that kind of perfection yet. Let's hear some thoughts on this. It really seems like a great deal to me. What am I missing??? Super 8 Hear my stuff here
Philip OKeefe Posted February 7, 2003 Posted February 7, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]I was thinking about putting together a cheap Pro-Tools system using and AudioMedia III card and the 5.3.1 software. The analog ins and out are only 18 bit on that card BUT the digital in and out are 24 bit, so I was hoping you could do 24bit- 96Khz recording on a system like that with a mixer that had digital outs. Digidesign is releasing Asio drivers for that card and it's other products so I could still use that set up with my other software.[/b][/quote]Sorry, nope. The 5.3.1 software only supports sample rates of 44.1 / 48 KHz. Yes, the AM III card does support 24 bits (via S/PDIF), but only at 44.1 / 48 KHz, so it wouldn't matter if the digital mixer supported 88.2 / 96 KHz - the software doesn't. The least expensive 24 bit / 96 KHz capable Pro Tools system currently available is the Digi 002 running PT LE 5.3.2.
Philip OKeefe Posted February 7, 2003 Posted February 7, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Super 8: [b] The problem with them is the versatility I require. This won't be a mixer that sits in one place all of the time. It HAS to be portable. It needs to be able to hold up in environments that are typicial of live gigging/recording (read: smoke... :rolleyes: ). It also needs to sound reasonably good. Honestly though, I'm not as conserned over sound quality as many of you would be. This isn't audiophile stuff I'm doing, and if it ever gets to that point I would want a separate console that would stay in the studio. Just the same though, I need BANG for the BUCK. If it offers great functionality, but poor sound quality, then I'm really limiting myself in terms of recording. If it has good sound but poor functionality (i.e. Not very portable, poor automation/MIDI control/FX,EQ, ect) then it's limiting what I am able to use it for in a live situation. [/b][/quote]Have you seen anything on the NEW 01V96? It's much closer to the new 02R96 than to the original 01V. 40 channels (even at the high sample rates - yes, it supports 96 KHz with no channel reduction "hit"), better converters, four onboard effects processors (two at 88.2 / 96 KHz), 100 mm faders, RACKMOUNTABLE, better user interface and display, etc. etc. $2,500 list, due to ship in April or early May. http://www.yamaha.com/cgi-win/webcgi.exe/DsplyModel/?gRMC0000801V96
Groovepusher Sly Posted February 7, 2003 Posted February 7, 2003 Usually, when prices start dropping like this, it is because the item has been discontinued. Sly :cool: Whasineva ehaiz, ehissgot ta be Funky!
Super 8 Posted February 7, 2003 Posted February 7, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe: [b] Have you seen anything on the NEW 01V96? $2,500 list, due to ship in April or early May.[/b][/quote]Yeah but Phil, we're talking about over a thousand dollars difference in price! I *AM* intrigued by the 01v96, and I can always conjure up a little more saliva to drool for some shiny new buttons and flashy things. But I still have to ask; does this mean that the Roland couldn't offer me much of the same for substantially less??? Yes, 96 KHz with no channel reduction is great, and I expect that professionals will hear the difference -but will anyone else? I think this is important because I suspect that a lot of studios fail because they 'SPEC' themselves to death. If I can't get anymore to book studio time at $40/hr with a full ProTools rig, but I could have people lined up for $15/hr with an ADAT and a Mackie, I'm WAY ahead of the game... I really try NOT to get too excited over the latest and the greatest, because I first have to justify the expense [i](Am I buying this for me, or do I actually expect to make money after I recover the cost)[/i], and then I have to come to terms with the fact that something like the 01V96 will NEVER again cost as much as it does now. That means that in a few years I'll be hearing people say; "Oh, you're STILL using one of THOSE.?.?". It's a given that the new thing will do everything the old thing did, plus soooo much more, and do it better. But does that mean that the old thing can no longer do a respectable job? Because that's what it comes down to for me. I need what is going to work well. I want to stay above the [i]'it'll get you by'[/i] level. I'd rather aim for the [i]'there's newer stuff out, but this will still yield good results'[/i] level. Not cutting edge. Not obsolete. Is this making any sense? Super 8 Hear my stuff here
Philip OKeefe Posted February 7, 2003 Posted February 7, 2003 Makes complete sense to me. You always have to do a cost / benefit analysis when buying gear, and that needs to be done with consideration to what your market expects to see in your studio, the increased capabilities the device adds (does it make your workload easier or more efficient?) and what your market is willing to PAY for. I am not suggesting the 01V96 would be the perfect product, I just wanted to make you aware of it if you weren't already. I'd definitely say it's a MAJOR step up from the Rolands or original 01V in terms of user interface, feature set and sound quality, but only you can decide if the price is worthwhile / justifiable for what you're getting.
Gtoledo3 Posted February 7, 2003 Posted February 7, 2003 Phil is right about the yamaha being a big step up. Iv'e used the roland mixers before. I think they're good as far as pushing around levels and panning/summing goes... but the eq is a no go. It's not too bad when subtracting frequencies, but it just doesn't have a really good sound. I think that for anyone doing techno, rap, etc... this might be a good buy. Even if you get a new mixer later, you could still use the roland as a keyboard/drum machine, sub mixer. Want mix/tracking feedback? Checkout "The Fade"- www.grand-designs.cc/mmforum/index.php The soon-to-be home of the "12 Bar-Blues Project"
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