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Seems the new Rhodes is Coming...


Cliffk

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Please, don't take me wrong, I would luuuuuuv :love: to have one. Older ,new , you name it. And I still want one for my studio . I recently just missed one on ebay that was a beauty and less than a 100 miles away. I just don't really absolutly need one or want to carry one to gigs. And when I mean people who can't tell the difference, I mean the non musician type attending the dance. I believe he will survive just fine ,I just happen to think there are a lot of musicians like me who have to look and say. Is it worth spending these dollars for this when I need that . Or maybe I'm just jealous of the guy who can get one :P:P:P

 

 

Hey wow, I made a sig line :D

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Originally posted by burningbusch:

Keith Jarrett or a monkey could press a key on a Korg Triton combi and it would sound the same.

Not so sure about that. If they were both singing along with the note they were playing, the monkey would probably sound better.
A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable.
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I'm TOTALY with Burningbusch here!!!!

 

i did a thread here a couple of days ago called "keyboard players take pride"... asking about why people try emulate stuff all the time! i'm a 26 year old pro keyboard player from copenhagen, denmark and i own both new and vintage gear... i must say that none of my digital gear (triton classic, nordlead2, k2000rs, jv-1080 and micron) comes close to having the personality of my vintage gear (suitcase rhodes, clav d6, wurlizer 200a, yamaha cp80, minimoog, prophet5, roland vp330+ ect.).

 

in my usual live setup i use the rhodes, triton, clav, minimoog, nordlead and micron! and i couldn't do without a single one of them...

 

ask a saxplayer how many hours he spent trying to get that tone... going through different mouth pieces, reeds! that's proper musicianship to me! ask yourself how you'd like the saxplayer in your band to play a midisax with a selmer sample!!!

 

go ahead and show some support for a guy trying to keep a historic instrument going! if it wasn't for rhodes, hammond, clav, wurly, moog ect. we wouldn't have any of theese wonderful toys that are avaiable now and that we all love!!! all of theese instruments diserve some respect and some use in making good music!

 

Daniel

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All our drummers should change to lighter, easier to transport electronic drum kits...

 

If people had the attitude of 'it's lighter and more practical and sounds pretty good' etc. back around the time of the rhodes, wurly, clav etc. we wouldn't have those instruments emulated in our boards. So I ask, what are our boards in 15 years time going to be emulating...

 

Probably nothing new...

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Originally posted by StillFightingIt:

All our drummers should change to lighter, easier to transport electronic drum kits...

 

If people had the attitude of 'it's lighter and more practical and sounds pretty good' etc. back around the time of the rhodes, wurly, clav etc. we wouldn't have those instruments emulated in our boards. So I ask, what are our boards in 15 years time going to be emulating...

 

Probably nothing new...

Gee... Didn't I state I would love to have one new or old, more than once, and that I thought the guy would make it. Your 21,I'm 46 with two herniated disk. Two college bills to pay .I don't know why I should be made to feel like I am detrimental to the future of musical tone. I already carry a P 200 which wieghs 73 pounds ,Why because of the quality of the pianos. Well according to your argument , I should get a Stienway or a Bosendorf or is it okay for piano samples. Okay lets go fellows... lets put the Baby grand here ,the B3 and the leslie there,the Rhodes there . the hohner D6 there. Oh man we are out of room on the stage , and I still have the synth and ..well I don't know where you guys can stand. I'll be back to hook up and mike everthing up after I go park the truck and trailer ;):D
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Trill,

My comments were not directed specifically at you and I'm sorry if they have offended you in any way. That was by no means the intent.

 

I feel like many of the comments had a general subtext of 'Why would he bother bringing out a new rhodes, our boards are good enough'.

Although I do think for most musicians it probably isn't practical to purchase a new rhodes. I think this kind of musical development should be applauded and encouraged, whether you personally would buy one or not. (I would be in no financial situation to purchase one).

 

My argument isn't that you should carry around a baby grand with you. What if all the piano manufacturers said 'okay, we're not making real piano's anymore, there's no market for them because digital emulations are pretty good and they're lighter and easier to transport.' That would be a disaster for the music world.

 

Even if the market for the new rhodes is only elite recording studios and leading musicians. It is still worthwhile making.

 

But of course trill you are in no way detrimental to the future of musical tone.

Sorry for upsetting you.

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Its cool ,I'm not upset,just wish I had a rhodes and roadies :thu: I just wanted to try to humor you with the fact thats almost impossible to gig as a small time pro and remain a purist.Purist in heart yes ,Purist on stage ,not so practical all the time. I think its cool to see young guns like yourself. Still lovin the rhodes like it should be. And on a similar note, they still make tube amps for a reason.
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Originally posted by StillFightingIt:

What if all the piano manufacturers said 'okay, we're not making real piano's anymore, there's no market for them because digital emulations are pretty good and they're lighter and easier to transport.' That would be a disaster for the music world.

 

That's not going to happen anytime soon.

 

I don't think the market is big enough to make it worthwhile to produce five(5) new models of Rhodes electro-mechanical instruments, and sell them in enough quantity to break even.

 

:idea: Hmmmmmmm... What would you pay for a new Rhodes today? One with say MIDI output, Dyna-My-Piano type technology, balanced stereo line-outs, etc. :)

 

Or would you want it just like the original? :cool:

"Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo
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Hmmm,

what would I pay for a new rhodes (if I had the money to spend) I think I would pay up to $4000

 

Whether it could be manufactured for the much I don't know, but so far we haven't been given a ballpark figure as far as I'm aware.

Original's are good, but some fresh features would be good, like midi, balanced..., flat top, better tuning stability.

I don't want the rhodes to be compromised in order to make it lighter so the weight thing doesn't bother me too much.

 

I'm using a CP80! (when there's no grand available) poor band mates... I have a digi but I find the CP much more inspirational, but I'm in the process of building a piano shell to house my digi in for smaller gigs.

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Originally posted by kevank:

Originally posted by burningbusch:

Keith Jarrett or a monkey could press a key on a Korg Triton combi and it would sound the same.

Not so sure about that. If they were both singing along with the note they were playing, the monkey would probably sound better.
:thu::thu::thu::thu:

Haha good one! Hey does Keith Jarrett actualy MIKE his voice intentionally??!!

 

To add my thoughts on the thread, I think that there is a comparison to make between the "New B3" and that new Rhodes. (I know the new B3 isn't electro-mechanical, but...) Who buys the New B3? I'm guessing very rich people who read somewhere that this is the "best keyboard ever", and who can't play a note, but want to show it to their friends. A small market, but I'm pretty sure it's there.

 

I don't think it would be a very profitable business, but I'll be glad if it happens. At least this would be a "real" instrument, as opposed to the new B3.

 

As for the weight, I'm guessing they could bring it down to 80-90 lbs without too much compromise... The Mark V weighs 100 lbs, compared to about 130 for the older stage models, and it took many years of research for that. If they start taking out wood and such that would affect the sound...

 

anyway just my 2c

 

martin

"Show me all the blueprints. I'm serious now, show me all the blueprints."

My homemade instruments

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Originally posted by bourniplus:

If they start taking out wood and such that would affect the sound...

Wood it? :D Sorry. :rolleyes:

 

Seriously, it one were to remove the harp assembly from a Rhodes and put it in a plastic case with suitable internal bracing to keep it from flexing, why wouldn't it sound the same? It's not as if the wooden case adds to the sustain of the tines, is it?

"Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo
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This might have worked until 5-6 years ago, the new samples and plugs sound so good there's really no point in getting a real Rhodes. I have a Rhodes, and I guess I'll never get rid of it, but if i didnt have one today, I sure wouldn't go out and buy a new one...
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Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?:

 

Seriously, it one were to remove the harp assembly from a Rhodes and put it in a plastic case with suitable internal bracing to keep it from flexing, why wouldn't it sound the same? It's not as if the wooden case adds to the sustain of the tines, is it? [/QB]

I agree with you. Actually, that's what they did with the Mark V. The case is all plastic. I'm guessing that if the harp assembly was made of something else than wood, it would sound different. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wood. :rolleyes:

"Show me all the blueprints. I'm serious now, show me all the blueprints."

My homemade instruments

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I'm pretty excited to see the 'real' Rhodes come back, but I have to agree with others' opinions: five new models seems a bit ambitious.

 

Unless there will be a couple of "consumer" level models available. I imagine that they'd want to diversify enough to hit more than the professional or "prosumer" markets, offering lighter versions for home use.

 

As far as the real-Rhodes-vs-clone debate, I think there's plent of room for everyone, and one isn't necessarily better than the other. Different players have different needs ... and there are far more players out there than this Forum's regulars represent (an issue highly worthy of another thread).

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the technique to make carbon fibre durable has taken leaps forward since the mark v so maybe that would be a route? It certainly would scale down the weight a hell of a lot.. but maybe not the price LOL although, it has become cheaper these days too....

 

if they can make bikes that is feather light compared to what I used to ride as a kid.. I am sure the weight can be compated....

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If people had the attitude of 'it's lighter and more practical and sounds pretty good' etc. back around the time of the rhodes, wurly, clav etc. we wouldn't have those instruments emulated in our boards. So I ask, what are our boards in 15 years time going to be emulating...
No, it's exactly the attitude of accepting a compromise for cost and portability that created the Rhodes and Hammond organ. Along with a gazillion other attempts we never heard of or don't bother to dwell on now, because they didn't (unexpectedly) create a whole new thing.

 

Well, there are folks all over who manage to make a few bucks selling boutique guitar amps for over $2000. So maybe this guy can stay afloat selling Rhodes, and I hope he is and wish him all the luck in the world. But like Tom and Garrafon, I'm skeptical. I'd be skeptical even if he were only offering a single model -- the stage 73 being the obvious candidate.

 

I'll be interested to hear how many folks on this forum buy one.

 

I'll also be interested to hear how many vintage Rhodes afficionados find that it doesn't sound as good as an $800 Mark I. (Personally, I bet it sounds great. I've always liked playing an instrument -- provided it's a good instrument -- and finding what it does well, rather than comparing it against some ideal and dwelling on the gap. So, I'm no purist.)

 

BTW, saying how much you'd pay "if you had the money" is meaningless from a marketing perspective. It only matters how much folks would pay who DO have the money and are willing to spend it.

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FWIW - I didn't see in the original post that this was going to be an original Rhodes - i.e. mechanical. Without considering the marketability factor, what if the plan is to build the new Rhodes like the *new* B3? And, what if it were light like an Electro, had the Rhodes feel and sound, and perhaps priced at $1000?

 

Just a thought.

Hammond B3, Leslie 122 - is there anything else?
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Studio Electronics has stayed alive for decades (I believe) essentially making analog synths to order. If you buy an Omega 8 from them, depending on their workload, it will be ready in 3-5 days. Some people build musicial instruments for the love of it, not with the idea of becoming a billionaire. The guitar world is filled with with small boutique electric and acoustic guitar makers--go to NAMM sometime, they're everywhere.

 

Maybe the five models are really things like a 73 key version, 73 key with MIDI, MIDI and active electronics vs. five distinct models. In the end, Rhodes discovered that the 73 stage was the one people really wanted--the Mark V was only available in that configuration.

 

Everyone discounts the Rhodes action. Have you ever played a Rhodes with back check? I have. It makes a huge improvement to the playability as key bounce is eliminated. What if the keys were slightly weighted to give it a more balanced feel? The Rhodes action, hammers, etc were designed to mimic a grand piano action. It would not take a lot to improve the action considerably. Having the wood keys is a real plus.

 

The new Rhodes would need to have significant improvements over the original and MIDI would be key. Pick up development where they stopped with the Mark V. Much like what Bob Moog did with the Voyager--keep what's essential for the original, but then build on it.

 

Think of it in terms of a hybrid instrument. It could be purely electromechanical, but with MIDI it could control an external module for more sounds. I think it just needs some basic MIDI zone functionality. Layer the real Rhodes with the digital synth.

 

I think it could be very cool and exciting.

 

Busch.

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I'd buy one if

 

1. The action was improved

2. The weight was as light as something like the Promega 3 (unlikely!)

3. It had MIDI.

 

I'd pay around £2000 and that would feel a stretch.

 

I don't own a rhodes anymore, and to tell you the truth I don't find the rhodes that adaptable to a wide variety of music.. its great for jazz, fusion, dance music, 1970s nostalgia but not a lot else.. I much prefer piano these days..

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It would be cool if it had solenoids like a Disclavier so you could control it from an Oxygen 8 :) or a sequencer.

 

But even the MIDI Out functions would be more useful on a Rhodes than an acoutstic piano since you can, for all intents and purposes, mute the Rhodes sound.

 

I'm guessing these will start out at $3800.00

"For instance" is not proof.

 

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Originally posted by burningbusch:

It is mind boggling to me that so many "musicians" can be so completely satisified with "musical instruments" that are 100% fake. You press a key and it emits the exact same sound every f%#$ing time. Keith Jarrett or a monkey could press a key on a Korg Triton combi and it would sound the same.

 

The biggest thing anybody seems to care about is how much does it weigh? Why bother with anything else? The $299 Radio Shack piano will fool 95% of the people, doesn't weigh much at all, is cheap as hell. End of discussion. It's obviously the perfect instrument for today's lazy-ass, don't care what it sounds like keyboardist.

 

Busch.

There is such a thing as editing sounds and or samples. It doesn't HAVE to sound the same if one takes a little initiative and becomes creative.

 

As to the weight issue be honest Bill, if they made a portable B3 that produced the exact same sound as the 400 lb. real deal and it only weighed 30 lbs., tell me you wouldn't be the first one in line to snap one up? By the way; Yamaha, Korg, Roland, and others are getting closer to that ideal and it may be sooner than you think before they nail it. Of course a couple of Leslie's to run it through doesn't hurt either. ;)

 

I think the general concensus among most keyboardists is lighter is better when all things are considered. Composites ARE getting lighter and interestingly enough stronger, so as long as a keyboard or digital piano or whatever is rugged and solidly built with quality parts then just because it is light shouldn't be a reason to show angst against keyboardists who are looking for a quality keyboard product in a portable solution.

 

Parody:

 

Here's Bill showing off to the camera just before loading his truck with his vintage Rhodes Mark V Stage 73 Piano..

 

http://keybplayer.tripod.com/4.jpg:D:D:D:D

 

 

Not all of us are spring chickens anymore neither do most of us have the physiques of Charles Atlas. So as long as any keyboard product that I'm interested in buying has convincingly real sounds in it, then I for one would go for the lighter more portable solution almost every time. Unless of course I have some Roadies to do the dirty work for me. :thu: Either that or you were my neighbor Bill. :D

 

Peace Bro..

Mike
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[grumpy old guy mode] Having grown up with the Rhodes, I have no fond memory of lugging a one trick pony and a heavy one at that, up the steps. I now just use one stage piano and consider the trade off more in my favor.

 

If you can't tell the difference between the real thing and a sample, what's the advantage to buying a one trick pony. My memories are of always making very minor adjustments and always at the last minute before a job or a concert.

 

If this new company is a public company, I won't be investing in it.

No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message.

 

In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments.

 

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Caution, thick sarcasm ahead!

 

I am starting a company that produces ten different models of pipe organ. I promise you it will sound awesome on stage. It would be great at gigs...just like the classic pipe organs you find in churches. Any takers?

 

I didn't think so.

 

Hey, how many of you bought the Mellotron Mk VI when they tried that out several years ago?

 

I didn't think so.

 

And while we are at it, why no start making clavs again? Or Model A Fords?

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Dave, our memories are the same.

:thu: +1

 

I hope this guy makes it and if boutique guitar amps are any indication he will. I just heard recently about a guy building $50,000 guitar amps. He builds two a year, (not bad income)and has a five year waiting list. I would like to find out who his marketing manager is.

Jimmy

 

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. Groucho

NEW BAND CHECK THEM OUT

www.steveowensandsummertime.com

www.jimmyweaver.com

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