soapbox Posted October 6, 2001 Share Posted October 6, 2001 Reason sure got a lot of rave reviews and hype when it came out, but no one seems to talk about it now. At the same time, there's still plenty of discussion going on about SONAR, Logic Audio, Cubase VST, Digital Performer, ProTools, etc. Was Reason a cool concept, or was it all flash and no substance? Users weigh in here! Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoughtintruder Posted October 6, 2001 Share Posted October 6, 2001 I have a feeling that the majority of the people here are not into making electronica so there probably isn't going to be much talk about reason and programs similar to it(but then again I'm usually wrong). I'm a newbie to the whole computer music thing so I can't weigh in as much as you probably would like but I have been using reason for the past 2 months and love using it. If anything reason is a great learning tool for someone who wants to learn how to use electronic intsruments. All the hype might have been about it being so cheap and that its a pretty good system. Anyways I love reason and coupled with the programs you mention and with other soft synths it makes for a great studio. By the way I'm a jazz musician turned into a Techno head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven dunston Posted October 6, 2001 Share Posted October 6, 2001 I think Reason is very slick, but SONAR can do everything Reason can (minus the pattern sequencing)and SONAR has a whole lot of features Reason doesn't. But Reason would be my choice for traveling with a notebook computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted October 7, 2001 Share Posted October 7, 2001 <> Like digital audio recording! But the DXi soft synths are currently not as good, or as well integrated. << But Reason would be my choice for traveling with a notebook computer.>> Reason makes my PowerBook G3 rock. Reason should not be thought of as a do-all program a la SONAR, Cubase, Pro Tools, etc. It should be thought of as a musical instrument. In that context, it has limitations compared to traditional DAWs. But as a musical instrument, it's phenomenal. It's also virtually impossible not to have fun with Reason. But the biggest thing about Reason is that I truly feel no one has mastered it yet. I just finished writing a Quick Start book on Reason for Wizoo/Music Sales, and in the process, learned a bunch of tricks -- even though I thought I was pretty in tune with Reason. Bottom line: Reason is brilliant. No one else has put a studio for a particular genre of music in one program, let alone do it so reliably or inexpensively. I still get a smile everytime I boot the thing up. In a way, it's like Acid -- special purpose, but it sure does what it's supposed to do fabulously well. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted October 7, 2001 Share Posted October 7, 2001 And while I'm in self-promotional mode -- I'm doing an article for EQ on using Reason as a multitimbral expander module. Load up one of your older computers, make a rack with 16 instruments, and drive it with SONAR or whatever. You will become a believer -- those soft synths are killer. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven dunston Posted October 7, 2001 Share Posted October 7, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by Anderton: Reason makes my PowerBook G3 rock. Reason should not be thought of as a do-all program a la SONAR, Cubase, Pro Tools, etc. It should be thought of as a musical instrument. In that context, it has limitations compared to traditional DAWs. But as a musical instrument, it's phenomenal. [/B][/quote] Good point. Reason is really a software groove box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeon Posted October 7, 2001 Share Posted October 7, 2001 Reason is far, far more than a software groovebox. Here is how I tend to use it...I like to germinate ideas in Reason - using it to do a proof-of-concept is a great way to work, and with some external processing it can be used for final mix work. The environment is so fluid that things start happening very quickly. [i]For getting ideas beyond the embryonic stage without getting lost in other technical issues, Reason excels![/i] Reason is also great fun when it comes to collaboration by e-mail because the song files can be so small. In particular, I love the sequencer implementation in terms of editing and display. Dr. REX is amazing...I would buy that for $99 as a stand-alone VSTi sofysynth. Pairing Dr. REX with Recycle2 and some good processing is [i]very[/i] musical. Also, pairing a knob-box with Reason is a must...I use my Nord Modular and a Peavey PC1600x as MIDI controllers for it. I also use ASIO in Reason with a Korg OASYS for my I/O, sending 8 channels of Reason audio into the effects processing modules on the OASYS, where I typically get 18-24 inserts for the 8 channels. I also hang a t.c. electronics FireworX + M3000 and Lexicon PCM-81 off of the OASYS I/O for further fx processing. The final output gets spit out via S/PDIF @ 24-bit to another Mac running ProTools. Needless to say, I do not rely solely on the Reason fx for processing! [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Here are some things I would like to see in Reason 2.0: [*]Allow the address of external MIDI devices with the sequencer. I think this is particularly important because when using Reason my hardware synths go to waste. I am not particularly happy with the sound of the Subtractor synth in Reason, but when put against a Nord Mod, Q, Virus, SY99, Pulse, and JD-990, how could I be? [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] [*]Allow the app to host VST plugs in a rack unit. [*]Allow the app to host VSTi instruments in a rack unit. [*]Allow tempo and time-sig changes in a Reason conductor track. [*]Allow horizontal resizing of the window so I am not forced to use ResEdit to hack the application in order to do so. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] [*]Allow LFO sync in the modules. [*]Allow recording and playback of multitrack audio...perhaps 8 tracks worth? [quote]Originally posted by Craig Anderton: [b]It's also virtually impossible not to have fun with Reason...Bottom line: Reason is brilliant.[/b][/quote] Craig really hit it square on the head here...its [b][i]fun![/i][/b] Comparing and contrasting Reason with other DAW software or hardware misses the point entirely. This message has been edited by aeon@mediaone.net on 10-07-2001 at 04:19 AM Go tell someone you love that you love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricknbokker Posted October 7, 2001 Share Posted October 7, 2001 I'm glad this topic has come up. Perhaps you guys can answer a question for me. Me and my cousin are going to be collaborating on an as yet undefined project. The plan is for each of us to purchase Reason, with him providing the electronic portions of the songs via a controller, while I will provide things like guitar, bass, and vocals, etc via Midiman's Omnistudio. We will be sharing files regularly. Does this sound like it will work... that is, do you think Reason is up to the task? Is there another option near this price point that will be more suitable, or is it just a matter of taste? Any input on this would be appreciated. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven dunston Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by aeon@mediaone.net: [b]Reason is far, far more than a software groovebox... Craig really hit it square on the head here...its [b][i]fun![/i][/b] Comparing and contrasting Reason with other DAW software or hardware misses the point entirely. This message has been edited by aeon@mediaone.net on 10-07-2001 at 04:19 AM [/B][/quote] Well, I think you've gone a bit overboard. Are you saying one can't have fun with DAW software or hardware? I stand by the Reason-as-a-groovebox statement. It serves the same market, with the same types of features. Reason is a powerful piece of software, but grooveboxes can also be powerful tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 It's funny this topic should come up right now. As I was playing with Reason a couple days ago, I thought it very sad that unlike a "real" musical instrument, probably no one will be able to use it 20 years from now, because computers and operating systems will have changed so much. Now think back to Roland TB-303/808/909. Even though they flopped (more or less) when originally introduced, because they were hardware they were able to have a second life well over a decade later, thanks to techno/rap/dance music. Reason will probably not get that second chance, unless someone is able to keep a creaky old Apple G4 or Windows 98 machine running sometime in 2020...when CD-ROMs will be as playable as 8-track cartridges are now. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcwave Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 I use reason alot. I am a rock guitarist. I come up with a midi sequence for drums in Nuendo and rewire to Reason. I use it like a VSTi adding ambiance, as a sample to tweak a guitar riff etcc.. Have yet to do an electronica style beat or groove with it... Although Reason may not be usable in 20 years, won't midi sequences? If so would it really matter is Reason can't be used like hardware can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by Anderton: [b]As I was playing with Reason a couple days ago, I thought it very sad that unlike a "real" musical instrument, probably no one will be able to use it 20 years from now, because computers and operating systems will have changed so much.[/b][/quote] I don't necessarily agree... If you consider the popularity of [url=http://www.emulation.net/]emulators[/url] and how there are a lot of folks out there who are playing 20+ year old games, using old apps, and even writing new programs for old systems... Yeah, a lot of us will have moved on to the latest and greatest things, but I think there will be a significant chunk of techno heads who will dig the "vintage" sounds and the "primitive" user interfaces available from late-20th-century music apps. As much as it doesn't always seem so, the present time is always going to be someone's "golden era" for something, someday. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] This message has been edited by popmusic on 10-07-2001 at 11:45 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 Reason sounds great! It also does much more than I ever expected. I like the sequencer; very easy to use, kind of like a Logic Light. SubTractor is a brilliantly designed analog modeling synth. The drum computer is fabulous. Reason is a steal at the price. My main complaint is Reason's dependence on OMS for communication to the outside world (i.e. integration with sequencers). I used to use Vision, and I'm just sick and tired of OMS. I'm hoping that something slicker is in the works for use with OS-X. At that point, I'm going to jump much more heavily into Reason. Except for the OMS dependency, it's a remarkable product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeon Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by steven dunston: [b]Well, I think you've gone a bit overboard. Are you saying one can't have fun with DAW software or hardware?[/b][/quote] How did I go overboard? No, I did not say one cannot have fun with DAW software or hardware...I said comparing and contrasting Reason with other DAW software or hardware misses the point entirely. Thanks for quoting me out of context and without an indication you had edited what I originally said. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] [quote]Originally posted by steven dunston: [b]I stand by the Reason-as-a-groovebox statement. It serves the same market, with the same types of features. Reason is a powerful piece of software, but grooveboxes can also be powerful tools.[/b][/quote] Reason [i]can[/i] serve the same market that hardware grooveboxes do, but it is not limited to that market. That is a significant difference between the two. I do agree with your statement that both approaches can be quite powerful. Go tell someone you love that you love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadMozart Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 I think Reason rocks also - even though I don't do electronica - I like it for the ease of getting that kind of a groove put together simply and fairly authentically. Why I hate it? Because it requires OMS and after switiching everything from Opcode SVP earlier this year I also went with an entire free midi setup since that seems to work better for me with Digital Performer than OMS. Now all of these soft synths, native instruments and things like reason require OMS and frankly I hate having to maintain two different set-ups inside my machine - just one more cause for failure - complexity. Cheers, Mark ------------------ http://www.broadjam.com/artistprofile/artistindex.asp?artistID=936 or listen at... http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/294/mark_coming_project.html http://www.broadjam.com/artistprofile/artistindex.asp?artistID=936 or listen at... http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/294/mark_coming_project.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jomag2000yahoo.com Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Craig, do you use Reason on your PBG3 in real time or step sequencing?, Maybe I'm lame but I cant get the step thing down. I was wondering what the majority of Reason players use. BTW whats the latency on a PBG3? SBLive users- The new drivers(dont know if they are available yet [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] have 2ms ASIO latency.I got a hold of the beta Audigy/Live drivers and for Reason they ROCK!!, I did this on a clean install of Win98se and I was blown away at how it felt like I was playing a "hardware" sound module. If you look around, I've seen some SBLiveOEMs for about $35.This would work great for an old "Reason" machine as Craig described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alon Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Reason rocks, if used in a creative way. I'm tired of hearing amatuerish stuff obviously done %100 in reason, where people don't even bother to use original sounds, and rely soley on the default presets (loops). The ability to import your own original rex files is awesome. I wouldn't use reason exclusively on a project, but in conjunction with other software/hardware it's a valuable creative tool. alon . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 <> I use real time only. Latency is not an issue with my PB, it all works just fine. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh dri Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 im a big REASON fan my live setup consists of an MC-307 sequencer running an akai S2000 and various other machines (TR-707, minidisc etc etc) reason is SO important for me because i can load up custom sounds in the drum machine, throw it into 32 res beats and go nuts. too much fun. i can load up samples, mess them around, save them as .wav and then convert them for my sampler (no i dont have MESA, i have a SCSI card but no cable :P) i have a great little app that writes .wav as S2000 format anyway i also sequence just in reason, both step and realtime, using controller lane maps (creating a mixer track in sequencer lane) i NEED propellorheads to make a Line Connect tool or something, so my Fade In or Fade Out style maps dont have to be wonky hand drawn.... or is that just lazy? plus the tear of sequencer would be nice (i have a matrox g400 card so two monitors....) to Craig, when is that book out? i am into a lot of reason tricks, but im not sure wether they are too flash. simple stuff like the 8&9 drum exclusive channel usage, using filters and matrix controlled CV gates to gate stuff, the usual as for people getting REALLY good in the program... well i think PEFF has the highest profile as REASON KING.... just for the record an act on the same label as me plays a live Tribal set with two computers running, you guessed it, Reason! they map everything to various keys and trigger live. we also started to build a midi controller hardware unit (Phatboy is a rip off!!!) the prototype should be assembled in a few weeks. reason is great. HATES: people sticking to the lame synth patches with little editting... the cheesy fx sounds (that phaser is very obvious in tracks), the poor distortion (did they change it from Rebirth??).. etc etc but better yet! these are just opinions! subjective ones! reason is great. i use reason AND sonar (well, once they get an .ini file for the Roland MC-307!!!!) HINT HINT CRAIG! please help me in my quest to get the mc-307 .ini files released >:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoughtintruder Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by DRiLoad: [b] just for the record an act on the same label as me plays a live Tribal set with two computers running, you guessed it, Reason! they map everything to various keys and trigger live. we also started to build a midi controller hardware unit (Phatboy is a rip off!!!) the prototype should be assembled in a few weeks. [/b][/quote] Keep us posted ... I'd be really interested to see what type of midicontroller you come up with(will it be for sale?). Also how are your friends liking reason for live use? Are they having any problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 Craig & Reason users... My main man DJ Lorne is thinking of getting Reason for his new G4. Do y'all think this is a good program to start with for a DJ/keyboardist (Triton) who is new to DAWs? Any links where he could get more info? Any help appreciated. E [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbox Posted November 28, 2001 Author Share Posted November 28, 2001 Any answers to the questions in the last two posts? Also, has [b]Craig[/b]'s Reason Book hit the stores yet? Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted November 28, 2001 Share Posted November 28, 2001 <> YES! It's a very familiar environment if you're into synthesis, and runs great on a Mac. As to whether the book is in stores, I got copies, so either they're at stores or on the way. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankieP Posted November 28, 2001 Share Posted November 28, 2001 I bought Reason when it first came out and I do all my sequencing with it. Sometimes i'll export the whole arrangement into a midi file and use my samplers, synths and keyboards instead. It so easy to use and just plain FUN!!! The only complaint I can think of right now, and hopefully the Props would implement in version 2, is that the sequencer/arrangement window is unexpandable and small in size! I wish the Props would make the Reason sequencer/arrangement window more bigger, maybe optimized for dual monitors. Imagine the sequencer on one monitor and a whole bunch of Reason racks/instruments on another. Now that would be cool!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R. Posted November 28, 2001 Share Posted November 28, 2001 I love Reason. Funny, I have been messing around with it the last few days, just read Craig's article on using it as a stand alone module, and the article in Remix on Rex files. Cucumbers and asparagas/cumbersome aparatus - more than a coincedence? (a pint to whomever gets that reference) Reason is fun, and more than a toy. Very powerful. I wish I could split the sequencer from the synths on the screen. It's a small area to work with, and I have two monitors, would like to be able to use them in Reason. Never eat anything bigger than your head. -David R. -David R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh dri Posted November 29, 2001 Share Posted November 29, 2001 [quote][b] Keep us posted ... I'd be really interested to see what type of midicontroller you come up with(will it be for sale?). Also how are your friends liking reason for live use? Are they having any problems? [/b][/quote] we aim to have a prototype of the unit our by january. check http://analogik.com for more details. the guy in charge is Dejan. him and i started that collective and we have (too many) many members now... site needs an update, but dont they all? anyway they have only ever had one problem with reason live, when windows hung once, luckily they use two pc's so it didnt matter. as you can imagine the sound just stalled, luckily on a hihat of all things so it wasnt TOO blatantly stuffed im just about to experiment with using reason midi files in sonar... fingers crossed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nawledge Posted November 29, 2001 Share Posted November 29, 2001 ok craig now that i know where you're hangin out, what did you decide on for your pc laptop? if I can't figure this out i'll end up getting one of those white ibooks, are they good for music, i'll only be running reason, and recycle, anyway does anybody have one of those, hows the performance? is there a way to share my reason/ recycle files with Sonar on my desktop Athlon? peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted November 29, 2001 Share Posted November 29, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by dxr@iname.com: [b] Cucumbers and asparagas/cumbersome aparatus - more than a coincedence? (a pint to whomever gets that reference) Never eat anything bigger than your head. -David R.[/b][/quote] B. Kliban, eh? :p -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix_dup1 Posted November 29, 2001 Share Posted November 29, 2001 I wouldn't say Reason is a flash in the pan any more than ReBirth or ReCycle (both of which remain popular programs to this day). In fact, I wouldn't underestimate any Propellerheads software. Reason is brilliantly designed and works like a charm. Future software enhancements will probably only make it better. Reminds me of the recent BT interview in Keyboard, when he said, "I also get kids asking me how they can get started making dance music: 'I want to buy my first keyboard. What should I get?' I always tell them to go out, get a copy of Reason, a Mac, a USB MIDI interface, and a keyboard controller, and start writing music." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R. Posted November 29, 2001 Share Posted November 29, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by DC: [b] B. Kliban, eh? :p [/b][/quote] Yup. You got it. I'll be at Zietgiest tomorow, about 5:30. Forget the pint, we always buy pitchers. Ummm, I hope San Francisco is not too far to travel for a beer... :p Come on out, DC! Cheers, -David R. -David R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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