Software synths Vs. Hardware synths

[geeclef28_dup1]

I'm a fan of Roland and Korg harware synths. I've been using them for years. I've tried a couple of soft synths and haven't been impressed by them (Native Audio's Dynamo to name one). I do have the Korg's oasys card, but that's something more harware than software. I wanted to know if there are soft synths out there that perform or outperform harware synths. It's time to get new sounds and I wanna try new synths. Thanx.

[joegerardi]

Depends on what you're looking for. Native Instruments makes some great softsynths, but they're primarily known re-dos of classics stuff. The Pro-53 is a Prophet-5, The B4 is an amazing Hammond clone. In the "It's-their-own" dept. look at Absynth and Reaktor, though Reaktor is an all-in-one piece of software with synth, sampler, groovebox, etc. They have free demos to try everything on their website. http://www.nativeinstruments.de/index.php?home_us Waldorf makes the PPG Wave 2.V, which is a PPG Wave 2.3 spftsynth, but again, that emulative of the hardware version. http://www.waldorf-music.com/products/ I've only scratched the surface. (that explains this rash! Momma always said: "Don't scratch at it!") There's lots out there, and they can sound good if you have the computer and soundcard to run them. ..Joe ..Joe

[Magpel]

Don't judge the softies by Dynamo. I have it. It's underwhelming and unstable. Some of the other NI stuff is great. Check out the rgc:audio Z3Ta+, and also their somewhat simpler Pentagon I. There's no accounting for taste, but I love the basic sound character of the rgc synths. They compare favorably to the meagre amount of hardware synths I've owened. Reality was a cool softsynth that combined VA with sample playback and excellent soundfont support, and a little taste of physical modeling.. I had heard that it might be coming back. It would be badly in need of an update, but it's one to watch.

[JES]

Hi, If I can piggyback. I'm wondering whether to go the hardware or software route myself. I'm mainly a stringed-instrument musician who'd like some nice sounding pads, basses, and drum sounds here and there. Is there a simple, very easy to use softsynth that will be easy to set up and play nice with digital performer on a mac? And will I be able to use a Oxygen 8 or something to play in parts? I'd rather not completely program them ('cept for the drums). Or am I better off with a Microkorg and a drum machine? Thanks. --JES

[RandyH]

You can't go too far wrong with Reason and the Oxygen 8 keyboard. M-Audio, the US distributor for both of these, even sells a custom backpack that holds the Oxygen 8 and your laptop! Reason behaves just like real hardware, so learning is easier if you have studio experience. Reason also comes with a very nice orchestral sound library, and is capable of far more than electronic dance music. Combining Reason with Ableton Live's realtime remixing technology makes for intriguing possibilities, which I wish I had more time to explore. There's a new keyboard controller from M-Audio called the Ozone which includes a USB audio interface - including an XLR mic input with phantom power. A truly all in one solution. Upping the number of controller knobs to, I think, 13, from 8 on the Oxygen is just gravy. Take a look at [url=http://www.m-audio.com,]www.m-audio.com,[/url] [url=http://www.propellerheads.se,]www.propellerheads.se,[/url] and [url=http://www.reasonstation.net]www.reasonstation.net[/url] for more information. Reason has another fringe benefit - I just read a bunch of the NAMM announcements, and I don't need to run out and buy any of it...

[Alndln]

[quote]Originally posted by Magpel: [b] Check out the rgc:audio Z3Ta+[/b][/quote]Yes,by all means it is a wonderfull synth.I still use a Korg X3 myself for most stuff,but NI FM7/Absynth and Z3Ta+ are sonically on the same level now and are starting to appear more and more on my stuff which is wonderfull.This means any time I want a new synth it'll only cost me around $300.00 tops,if not a lot less,no cables and no rackspace to deal with and the quality has arrived.I don't play keys as my first instrument(guitar)so I won't be using this stuff live so I won't comment on sound quality and stability issues there,but some are doing it via a powerbook(Herbie Hancock/Howard Jones)and some have succsess with PC laptops as well.

[gtrmac]

Spectrasonics' "Atmospheres" and Propellerhads' "Reason" are the most interesting and sophisticated VST instruments I've seen. I have PPG Wave, Halion, and ModelE and I love them. Check out the demo songs for Atmospheres though it's the first softsynth capable of producing the complex sounds of the best hardware synths. [url=http://www.spectrasonics.net]www.spectrasonics.net[/url]

[Alndln]

[quote]Originally posted by gtrmac: [b]Spectrasonics' "Atmospheres" and Propellerhads' "Reason" are the most interesting and sophisticated VST instruments I've seen. [/b][/quote]Great choices both,but I don't consider Atmosphere an instrument,but more of a sample CD with an included rompler(playback sampler) as a front end.But it does sound great though,and brings the Triton competition in a sense(sound quality/patches),unless you want to create your own patches.I also view Reason more as a program based around a tracking sequencer with included sound modules.I suppose you could call them both instruments in a sense,and the issue does get a bit cloudy.

[jeffbayson]

Just wanted to throw in the [url=http://www.vintagesynth.org/misc/mtron.shtml]M-Tron VST plugin[/url] . It's a VST mellotron emulator. It's a bit of a memory hog, but it's cheap, and if you like the old mellotron sound, I highly recommend it. The patches are warm, and they have been working their way into more and more of my mixes.

[RABid]

I have settled into the following. One good workstation is necessary. It should be a keyboard you enjoy playing and have some knobs or sliders to control parameters of soft synths. Currently I use a Roland Fantom. To that maybe ad a good rhythm box. I use the E-mu XL-7 because I like the sound and it has an abundance of knobs and an octave of touch sensitive pads. Using those two hardware units I can put together any song of any style. Both are loaded up with ROM expansions. Then comes the software. I don’t really use software to improve my sounds, but rather to gives me sounds I cannot afford in hardware form. ABSynth, z3ta+, Reaktor, Vaz Modular, Tassman. They all provide something I cannot get out of my hardware setup. My computer has become my rack. GigaStudio is better than any hardware sampler and SonicSynth is my high end Rompler with the bargain price. Battery is a great source of drums and Kontakt can mangle anything. I hardly turn on my XV-5080, P2K or Nord Modular anymore. My collection of beat boxes sit in the closet. They have been replaced with FruityLoops and Reason. After 25 years of using hardware keyboards and a year of buying most every VSTi in site I suggest a mix. Nothing beats the variety of sounds you can get from VSTi’s. For the price of a single expansion ROM you can get a great VSTi. On the other hand, nothing beats the intimately of a single piece of hardware you know inside and out when writing. No distractions with crashes, searching through 5000 patches, or fighting latency when playing a part. Robert

[vintagevibe]

I have: FXpansion dr008 drum sampler - awesome Live Synth Pro - Soundfont playback - totally solid, usable FX no muss-no-fuss way to play back my 1.5 gig of Soundfonts. (Ignore people who diss Soundfonts. They don't understand the SF2 standard and are thinking of 32mb SoundBlaster cards. Live Synth Pro and sound fonts are toally professional sounding and the samples are everywhere.) Triangle II - fat analog w/FX and FREE Edirol (Roland) VSC (virtual Sound Canvas) - I'm really suprised at how much I use this. It sounds cleaner and has more Sounds than the hardware version and I can load bunches of them at a time. VSampler - piece of crap! Also some other Free stuff that came with Sonar that I never use. I'm over dumping synth sounds to tracks in real time. Whenever possible I use Softsynths. I don't have to dump anyting into the PC anymore to do a digital mixdown. I work much quicker now and the software versions of synths are way more versitle than the hardware version. Have you ever seen a drum machine that can load a 200mb multi layered drum set? I've got one now.

[DJDM]

I would feel like I dropped the ball if I did not reply to this thread! :) But since almost everything has been covered I will just say geeclef28 that I too went from mostly Roland gear to a fully soft synth studio and I have never looked back! I am a big proponent of Reason for its amazing flexibility and overall user friendly GUI. But I would bet you would not, as I have, be able to find a single good reason to go back to hardware 100% of the time once you have sunk your teeth into some of the NI or Propellerheads stuff! There are great demos out there for the asking so check that out and make up your own mind about what you are looking for. Best of luck, - DJDM

[RABid]

You HAVE to try B4 and Lounge Lizard. They are not synths, but they can save you a bundle compared to hardware versions. Robert

[Raymar]

Magpel quote: ------------------------------------ [b]Reality was a cool softsynth that combined VA with sample playback and excellent soundfont support, and a little taste of physical modeling.. I had heard that it might be coming back. It would be badly in need of an update, but it's one to watch.[/b] Reality is being updated, read all about it here: http://www.s-music.biz/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi Steve

[RABid]

The web page for Reality is up again. New owners who were at one time users and want to see the program revived. They seem to get upset with all the people asking for a VST version. Robert

[geeclef28_dup1]

Thank you guys for the replys. It's very much appreciated. I just bought a pc so I can put gigastudio in it. I'm gonna get a few of those synths in there and make the pc my sound "module" if you will. Hopefully I can get a few new sounds and a bunch of inspiration.

[Joachim P. Dyndale]

All three Spectrasonics VSTi's! Doesn't come any better...

[JES]

Um, this is so basic as to be embarassing, but if you're not entirely composing with softsynths (if they're just part of a larger project that involves acoustic instruments, vocals, drums, etc), are they playable with a keyboard like the Oxygen8, or is latency an issue? Can you improvise with them, or do you just program in lines? I'm totally clueless as I've only ever recorded audio into the computer and mixed it, and messed around a bit with loops. Thanks. --JES

[Wewus432]

God, you're so stupid. :D If your soundcard has good drivers that work well with the host you are using then you can play soft synths live, with low latency, with an Oxygen 8 or any MIDI keyboard. Got to have a good soundcard like an M-Audio Audiophile or an Echo Mia and a host like Cubase or Sonar. There are some third party drivers available for SoundBlaster cards that I've used with varying degrees of success. Check my recent thread called Super Cool Soft Synth Set-Up For Free for a way to play soft synths with low latencty using a SoundBlaster.

[JES]

Thanks Wewus. I feel so small. I mean so much better. I mean. . . . I run a Mac with DP and Motu 2408 (original), so altency shouldn't be a problem. But I'm a rock/audio guy, so I'm just learning the softsynth stuff. Best, --JES

[M Peasley]

I've always found the easiest way to get new sounds is to revisit the old sounds and keep tweaking, like - if you have a synth that does DSP on samples, load in some new samples and run them through the filters, etc. - dig thru the sounds you already have but neglect. Like with the Korg Oasys - you have a HUGE set of samples and patches all begging to be re-programmed. - learn how to manipulate waveforms with a good waveform editor like Sound Forge. The simplest waveform sample, like a single snare hit, can yield an infinite variety of sounds if you learn how to manipulate the waveforms. - small changes to existing sounds can make a huge difference. Like changing the effects, or adding a layer of sound to the patch, etc. - make more use of your controllers...set up your patches to use as many controllers as you've got...CC pedal, pitch and mod wheel, key note triggers, sustain pedal, etc. All good music is good only because the subtleties are good...you don't always need a totally new piece of gear or software to find totally fresh sounds.... the cheapskate's view, I admit... M Peasley

[Alon]

Hardware synths are definitely a dying breed. i'm surprised that the mega synth makers like roland, korg, yamaha, etc. don't really have anything impressive out on the software side. If theyre smart, theyll get their act together, perhaps. One thing i like about software synths - no more midi/crap/loose timing etc. - good riddance alon

[Anderton]

I've been using the synths in PowerPulsar, which blow me away (no latency is soooooooo nice), along with the other cool stuff -- NI etc. Dittoes on the rgc stuff, it's awesome. BTW for all you soft synth fans -- the March 2003 issue of EQ has a special focus on soft synths. 10 pages in the mag and I wrote most of 'em . Talk about a fun issue to research!!!!!!!!!!

[Geoff Grace]

([i]Please note:[/i] Most of you know me as [b]soapbox[/b], but this post is under my real name.) Most of this subject has been covered very well above. I'd like to add that I find it helpful to own both a semi-weighted keyboard with a damper pedal to use for piano sounds and an unweighted keyboard for almost everything else. Also, while the [url=http://www.midiman.net/products/midiman/oxygen8.php]M-Audio Oxygen8[/url] is very cool for those on the go, there's a new controller in town. Check out the [url=http://www.novationonline.co.uk/nov_route/docs/front/remote_front.htm]Novation ReMOTE 25[/url] . BTW, [b]Craig[/b], I'm looking forward to that March issue of EQ. :) It's nice to be a subscriber! :thu: Best, Geoff

[Gus Lozada]

ALERT: A little SPAM... Wanna hear a 100% Softh Synth Production? Try my [url=http://artists.iuma.com/site-bin/streammp3.m3u?336373]new tune ![/url] Done entirely in REASON (Music) and the voval recording was made in LIVE 2.0. The controller was an Oxy8.

[DJDM]

[quote]Originally posted by GusTraX: [b]ALERT: A little SPAM... Wanna hear a 100% Softh Synth Production? Try my [url=http://artists.iuma.com/site-bin/streammp3.m3u?336373]new tune ![/url] Done entirely in REASON (Music) and the voval recording was made in LIVE 2.0. The controller was an Oxy8.[/b][/quote]Nice track Gus! What are you/he singing about? More spam alerts!! If you want to hear a 100% softsynth track go to my link below. I am about 100% Reason too for the record. ;) - DJDM

[aeon]

[quote][i]Alon said:[/i] [b]Hardware synths are definitely a dying breed.[/b][/quote]So that explains why [url=http://www.moogmusic.com/]someone[/url] would release a $3000 analog monosynth, and then nearly not be able to build them fast enough to keep up with demand, right? :rolleyes: The hardware synth market is certainly changing, no question there, but to say hardware synths are a dying breed is off-the-mark IMHO. Just as those who work with graphics often buy a video card that provides a degree of acceleration for various functions and eases strain on the CPU, so too do some musicians and writers buy hardware synths that do the same, extending their possibilities and CPU resources.

[gtrmac]

[quote]Originally posted by aeon: [b] [quote][i]Alon said:[/i] [b]Hardware synths are definitely a dying breed.[/b][/quote]So that explains why [url=http://www.moogmusic.com/]someone[/url] would release a $3000 analog monosynth, and then nearly not be able to build them fast enough to keep up with demand, right? :rolleyes: The hardware synth market is certainly changing, no question there, but to say hardware synths are a dying breed is off-the-mark IMHO. Just as those who work with graphics often buy a video card that provides a degree of acceleration for various functions and eases strain on the CPU, so too do some musicians and writers buy hardware synths that do the same, extending their possibilities and CPU resources.[/b][/quote][b]It sure looks cool but it is after all a recreation of a 30+ year old instrument. And it seems like Moog is in the "boutique" synth category.[/b] I think that the hardware synth makers like Roland, Yamaha, and Korg are feeling the effect of the soft synth revolution. I love using them and the way my studio is streamlined is great to me. I shudder to remember my early experiences with MIDI production. Remember Opcode Studio 64 and OMF setups or whatever it was called? I used to tech at a studio with a mid sized MIDI studio and I had to straighten everything out after every session. Most people didn't know how to operate the software and they would start hard patching all the MIDI cables to make it work. What a nightmare!

[Alon]

[quote]Originally posted by aeon: So that explains why [url=http://www.moogmusic.com/]someone[/url] would release a $3000 analog monosynth, and then nearly not be able to build them fast enough to keep up with demand, right? :rolleyes: [/quote]Well, that one is a special case, it's a moog. It's hardly surpising that the first new synth released by Bob Moog in ages, would be met with enthusiasm. I love moogs, ive even owned a few myself throughout the years. I'm talking about all the mass market synths. I don't know of any sales data available, but judging by blowout prices at many retailers, I'd say it's pretty safe to say that hardware synth makers are selling fewer hardware synths than in previous years. And the trend will most likely continue, in my opinion. alon

[G. Ratte]

Yo- go to kvr-vst.com if you're not a regular. There are hella free VSTi's out there, and plenty of them are great. Well over a hundred. As for commercial ones, I'm recently liking Steinberg's Plex a whole lot. Really rich sounds. Works really well when you're thinking "I want a pointy clavi sound... but not." Or, "This should be a round Rhodes... but not." It blends different aspects of sounds together easily, so you can get something vaguely familiar as a reference but not tired.