Athlon 64 PC?

[Odyssian]

Hi all,

Well, I'm building a PC. I got the case and motherboard for free, and have added an Athlon 64 3000+ processor to it.

 

I was wondering if anyone had any comments on which OS I should go with - the XP pro 64 bit version, or just the regular 32 bit home version?

 

The reason I ask is because I was reading some things on the net and I couldn't find much info on current music softtware for the 64 bit version. I also read that there may be a lot of manufacturers' drivers haven't been updated to work with the 64 bit XP OS, since it is still new.

 

Is anyone running XP Pro x64? Is it worth it to go this route at this time? Also, what recording package and softsynths would you recommend for either OS (XP pro x64 or home edition?).

 

I don't know much about the lastest PC technology, so any info would be appreciated. Thanks!

[DanS]

No idea about the 64 peripheral availability, but I run Cubase VST32, Gigastudio, Acid Pro5 all linked together via Rewire on an Athlon64 XP home edition, and they all play nice, most of the time.

You'll do better than fine starting out with 32bit.

[Odyssian]

Wow, that was quick! Thanks, I'll check out the software you mentioned. I think I have lots of reading up to do.

[SilverDragonSoun]

No idea about the 64 peripheral availability, but I run Cubase VST32, Gigastudio, Acid Pro5 all linked together via Rewire on an Athlon64 XP home edition, and they all place nice, most of the time.

 

I agree. I also have an Athlon64 XP home edition and run several programs on it without any issues. My machine is a music only machine and only one gig but it still does everything fine and very little issues.

[Odyssian]

Thanks, Silver. I only have a 512MB memory module in there now, but will add more once I figure the whole thing out. Are you running any softsynths?

[JMcS]

Scotty, I need more power

 

Jim, I'm give'n you all I got

 

 

If those companies start taking advantage of the 64 bit capabilities you will wish you had it. Then you will be spending more money to upgrade the OS instead of on the new music software. Besides, it will extend the time before that computer becomes obsolete.

[d.r.e.a.m.i.s.t]

I think I've read somewhere that Sonar 5 now supports 64-bit Windows. The others might follow soon in time.

[EmptinesOf Youth]

I built mine, athlon 3000+ with XP home, a couple months ago. The reason i went with home was mainly cause i was tryin to save money (kinda sounds like your doin if your only startin with 512 ram) and like they mentioned about, not many people have taken advantage of the 64 bit version yet. Honestly the only thing that gives me problems on my machine is my shitty graphics card, and thats cause i use it to play a couple games. But when im recording with cubase i have never had a problem. So i guess it depends on what you plan to use or how often your gonna upgrade. But honestly, there comin out with a new windows pretty soon (by soon i mean years) and i dont think using XP home will make your computer any more obsolete, and it will run good. I would go with Home and spend the extra money on more memory...

 

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustRatingReview.asp?Item=N82E16837102034

 

theres the link to newegg.com customer reviews on the 64bit pro...not tryin to discourage you but i saw some of them sayin lack or drivers, support...etc...

now there are a lot of stupid people so they may not all be right but its something worth checkin out..

Ryan

[EmptinesOf Youth]

oh and make sure to buy your memory in pairs and put them in the two slots next to each other and not in the middle...if that makes sense

[DanS]

Originally posted by Odyssian:

Thanks, Silver. I only have a 512MB memory module in there now, but will add more once I figure the whole thing out. Are you running any softsynths?

B4

Pro-53

Absynth2

Kompakt

Legacy Collection

[Odyssian]

Thanks everyone, for the replies. I really appreciate it!

 

Scatterbrain, this (from the newegg review page) has made my decision to stay with the home edition:

 

Cons: Older hardware and alot of new stuff has no driver support. Far too many 32bit programs just will not work.

 

Other Thoughts: If you need this for some 64bit program by all means get it, if not get a 32bit XP. I'm going to replace mine.

 

 

The problem I'm having now, is that I cleared CMOS because my new hard drive's software wouldn't load completely. Now the computer isn't booting!

 

Grrrr.... I hate learning things the hard way.

[Pat Azzarello]

Originally posted by d.r.e.a.m.i.s.t:

I think I've read somewhere that Sonar 5 now supports 64-bit Windows. The others might follow soon in time.

[Disclosure: I work on Windows, so this is somewhat biased.]

 

Cakewalk has a 64-bit version of Sonar available. They've done some cool things to support 32-bit plug-ins as well (you can't run 32-bit plug-ins in a 64-bit app without an adapter). Their user forum has a number of threads on this topic (Scott Reams, a Cakewalk forum member, has lots of experience here).

 

As for audio hardware, a number of companies have 64-bit drivers available. The audio hardware doesn't change, but 64-bit drivers are needed to make things work; You can't use a 32-bit driver on an 64 bit operating system. Check out the web sites to be sure.

 

If your app is 32-bit, you can run it on the 64 bit OS, and you will (in general - your mileage may vary) see some performance improvements as the underlying OS has access to more memory, etc. The same is true for running the 32-bit OS on x64 hardware (in compatibility mode). However, you won't see great improvements until you get the 64-bit OS and the 64-bit apps and plug-ins.

 

As we saw with 16 and 32 bit 10+ years ago, 64-bit is the future. What it all comes down to is whether your current apps will run on X64, or whether you want to invest the time and effort to learn and test a new set of apps. I'm willing to bet that not too long from now these kinds of decisions will be moot (64-bit will be the default for serious audio production)

 

My suggestion... Go dual boot (x64 and x86), keeping your audio data on a separate hard drive so you can get to it from both OS's, then decide for yourself and migrate over as you can.

[Odyssian]

I like the dual boot idea, Pat.

 

I have a 160GB hard drive. Do you suppose that each OS (32 bit and 64 bit) and the audio files would be okay on this one drive if I keep them on separate partitions?

[Loufrance]

*Loufrance strolls into a cool cat jazz club and takes cape and hat off*

 

>I was wondering if anyone had any comments on which OS I should go with - the XP pro 64 bit version, or just the regular 32 bit home version?<

 

IMHO-XP pro 64bit is for early adopters. Stick with XP home and buy the next version of windows a month or two after the first service pack version of it comes out.

 

 

>I only have a 512MB memory module in there now, but will add more once I figure the whole thing out<

 

Tell me what motherboard make and model your using. When going for the best price/performance you have to pay attention to ram timings and latency.

This may sound rough but you might be better off replacing the ram you have in your computer now. If you need more tech details just let me know and I'll post here for all to see.

 

Scatterbrain wrote:

>oh and make sure to buy your memory in pairs and put them in the two slots next to each other and not in the middle...if that makes sense

 

Somewhat true, It's mainly depends on the motherboard your using, In my dual channel motherboard putting the ram in like Scatterbrain said would not allow the memory to run in dual channel.

 

>JMcS wrote: If those companies start taking advantage of the 64 bit capabilities you will wish you had it.<

 

I disagree by the time they all decide to make 64 bit versions of their software you'll be ready to updrage your system/windows. 64 bit isn't that much better then 32 bit right now the pros outweigh the cons.

For example one of the main things 64 bit can do is address more then 4GB of ram, I'm pretty sure your motherboard can't take more then 4GB's anyway. Also not all 32 bit programs work in winXP 64, if a 32 bit program uses a 16 bit installer the program won't install.

 

>Pat Azzarello wrote:

My suggestion... Go dual boot (x64 and x86), keeping your audio data on a separate hard drive so you can get to it from both OS's, then decide for yourself and migrate<

 

Great idea, I wouldn't bother though I'd spend the money on more ram/music software. And yes the Os's would be fine on different partitions.

 

If you need any clarifications and/or advice feel free to ask me. I think there are other ways to get a better performance boost rather then going to 64bit to early.

[SilverDragonSoun]

Thanks, Silver. I only have a 512MB memory module in there now, but will add more once I figure the whole thing out. Are you running any softsynths?

 

Colossus - My bread and Butter

Atmosphere

Symphonic Choirs

Vokator

EWQLSO Silver

 

I run these without any issues. All these serve my purposes. I'm considering adding a piano only softsynth. At this time though, $ is an issue.

[Pat Azzarello]

Originally posted by Odyssian:

I like the dual boot idea, Pat.

 

I have a 160GB hard drive. Do you suppose that each OS (32 bit and 64 bit) and the audio files would be okay on this one drive if I keep them on separate partitions?

You really want your audio drive to be a separate physical drive. You'll get rotten performance if it's on the same drive as the OS because that hard drive head will be tracking all over the place. If it's on a separate drive, the audio drive head will (pretty much) move contiguously through the disk.

 

I'd create three partitions on the primary drive.

1. 32-bit OS

2. 64-bit OS

3. Data you want to share between them (upgrades, patches, libraries, etc.).

 

I also had a debate with a film composer here in Seattle, and I like his idea for his audio drive.

 

He partitions his audio drive into 10 gigabyte partitions. That way he can easily reformat when he's done with a project, and have a "clean" partition to work with (no disk fragmentation). Also, you can then copy your audio to another partition and back to defragment the files

 

Hope this helps...

[Odyssian]

Originally posted by Loufrance:

Tell me what motherboard make and model your using. When going for the best price/performance you have to pay attention to ram timings and latency.

This may sound rough but you might be better off replacing the ram you have in your computer now. If you need more tech details just let me know and I'll post here for all to see.

Hi,

I have a MSI K8T Neo-V motherboard. The memory module that I have in there now is a KByte 512MB DDR 2700/2100 PC333/266 184pin DIMM. I actually plan to return it to Best Buy today (I paid $120) and buy from a local dealer since the prices seem to be MUCH cheaper there. Same with my video card (paid $124 @ B-Buy), which is a PNY Ge-Force 6200 AGP 8x 128MB.

 

At the local independent store, they have:

DDR 512MB PC3200 400MHz $43.37

and:

ME1D4 DDR 1GB PC3200 400MHz $88.78

 

and a comparable video card is

VD4000P PCI 128MG DDR MX4000 $50.75

VD9250 AGP 128MG DDR RADEON 9250 $44.33

VD5200 AGP 128MG DDR FX 5200 $46.09

VD5500 AGP 256MG DDR FX 5500 $74.67

 

This is the first computer that I've ever put together from scratch, so I'm learning all this the hard way. Any other info/tips from anyone would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks to all for the advice so far.

 

Oh, and are there any problems with me using this computer for the internet once I get it all up and running?

[Odyssian]

Originally posted by Pat Azzarello:

You really want your audio drive to be a separate physical drive.

I have another hard drive from my old computer (used as a second drive) that I was hoping to move to the new computer as a second drive.

 

My old computer is a Pent3, with Win98SE. Would I be able to transfer this drive to my XP computer directly, while leaving all of the files on it?

 

If I can, I hope to copy the files from this slave drive to the master HD (on the new XP computer), and then format the slave and use it for audio. It's an 80MB drive.

 

He partitions his audio drive into 10 gigabyte partitions. That way he can easily reformat when he's done with a project, and have a "clean" partition to work with (no disk fragmentation). Also, you can then copy your audio to another partition and back to defragment the files

 

Hope this helps...

Sounds like great idea!

[Loufrance]

Originally posted by Odyssian:

Originally posted by Loufrance:

Tell me what motherboard make and model your using. When going for the best price/performance you have to pay attention to ram timings and latency.

This may sound rough but you might be better off replacing the ram you have in your computer now. If you need more tech details just let me know and I'll post here for all to see.

Hi,

I have a MSI K8T Neo-V motherboard. The memory module that I have in there now is a KByte 512MB DDR 2700/2100 PC333/266 184pin DIMM. I actually plan to return it to Best Buy today (I paid $120) and buy from a local dealer since the prices seem to be MUCH cheaper there. Same with my video card (paid $124 @ B-Buy), which is a PNY Ge-Force 6200 AGP 8x 128MB.

 

At the local independent store, they have:

DDR 512MB PC3200 400MHz $43.37

and:

ME1D4 DDR 1GB PC3200 400MHz $88.78

 

and a comparable video card is

VD4000P PCI 128MG DDR MX4000 $50.75

VD9250 AGP 128MG DDR RADEON 9250 $44.33

VD5200 AGP 128MG DDR FX 5200 $46.09

VD5500 AGP 256MG DDR FX 5500 $74.67

 

This is the first computer that I've ever put together from scratch, so I'm learning all this the hard way. Any other info/tips from anyone would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks to all for the advice so far.

 

Oh, and are there any problems with me using this computer for the internet once I get it all up and running?

I'll check out your motherboard, but for now

save yourself some trouble and DON'T BUY GENERIC RAM from best buy of your local shop. If they have it buy one of these brands, Crucial,OCZ,Corsair, or if you have to Kingston. I've used Crucial and OCZ with great results, I've also used cheap/generic PNY memory that didn't work and I had to return it. ALWAYS spend more money on quality ram because when your done your system will be much less crash prone.

 

One thing you really want to pay attention to are memory timings which I'll get back to you on, ram with good memory timings runs faster with less latency.

 

Next part, the video card, If you don't play a lot of 3D games then any one of those cards will be fine for you EXCEPT the pci card do not buy a pci card when you have an AGP or PCI-Express slot in your motherboard. Also whether to buy a card with an ATI chipset or an Nvidia chipset is personal prefrence, I my self don't mind Ati but prefer Nvidia for their driver flexibility.

 

And you should be able to use that second drive if it's an IDE drive then you'll have to set the jumpers on the new drive for master and the jumpers on the old drive for slave, to be on the safe side though DO NOT connect the second(old drive) until you've set up the new drive(formatted and installed Windows(are you going to use Service pack 2,I would). Just keep in mind that the native file system for WinXp is NTFS and for Win98 it's fat32 I don't think that will cause you a problem though.

 

And as far as you going online with this system is fine as long as you install Zonealarm or another firewall and install an Antivirus package(otherwise your new sytem is "French Toast" ) believe it or not but worms will wiggle through an unguarded system.

 

P.S I'm not "shouting" I'm just emphasizing my "point".

[Loufrance]

Ok.. what ram you get will be determined by how much you can spend on it, what we need to figure out is how much ram you want to have in your system. I suggest having more then 512MB but that much will work, If you can afford it go with DDR400 and your motherboards manual says that if you put dual sided memory in both slots you will get lesser performance, you only have two slots so knowing which slots to use should be simple (your not using version 2 of your motherboard are you?).

 

As far as RAM timings go here are some suggestions, keep in mind though that ram always runs at the speed of the slowest module. You should be able to find ram with a CAS latency of around 2.5(this has been simplifed) or the more technical reading of CL 2-3-2-5, as stated on some memory modules. Keep in mind that lower numbers are faster, I would explain all of the numbers but I don't want to confuse anyone.

 

Also did you know you could also use Serial ATA drives? on a SATA drive there are no jumpers to set and in stead of using those huge ribbon cables you use very thin cables.

 

 

And just to state my some of my computer history, I have done a partial rebuild on a Pentium 2 system, and I have built a brand new system recently here are the spec's.

 

Processor: Amd Athlon64 3700+(San Diego)

Motherboard: Asus A8N-Sli Premium(with the Nvidia Nforce4 chipset)

Ram: 2 Gigabytes of OCZ Platinum DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual channel.

Power supply: Seasonic S-12 600 watt power supply.

Video Card: Geforce 7800Gt 256MB DDR3 (no not Danc e Dance Revoloution 3

Hard disks: Seagate 7200.7 160GB Sata, and One 7200.8 250 GB Sata drive.

Case: All stuffed into one Antec P180 quiet case.

[Odyssian]

Welp, I just got back from taking my memory module and video card back to Best Buy. I went to the local PC store and decided to have them install everything. Based on your previous post, I bought 1 Gig of Kinston memory for about $100. I also bought an ATI 256MB Radeon 9600 for $88.

 

I don't know anything about Serial ATA drives...are those beneficial for a PC used for recording?

 

Thanks for all the help...

[Odyssian]

Oops, forgot -

 

I didn't see anything about my motherboard being a version 2, so I guess it's a version 1...

[Loufrance]

SATA drives are usually faster,but they might not be on your motherboard due to bandwith constraints...But yes with a faster system they are beneficial to recording, they can also be hotswapped which is a big plus if you want to use them for external drives and reap the benefits of storage and speed.

[Odyssian]

I got the computer, and it's running now (bad hard drive cable).

 

Now, I need to start looking into DSL and transferring my other drive from my old computer to this one. All I can do right now is play solitare. heheh...

 

Thanks again everyone for your helpful replies. I'm looking forward to getting it setup for music. My pocketbook will have to recoupe though first...