Synthesis Pointers Needed (again)

[Andre Lower]

Hi there,

 

We've been adding some new material to our setlist and I've managed to nail almost all the sounds we need, but for three songs. As usual, once I got stuck on these, I'm trying to get some starter tips from the old hands in here.

 

The bottom line remains the same: I have no plans of getting someone else to actually do the programming for me. What I am asking for is those basic frames which most experienced synthesists are capable of telling straight away (and which still evade my perception, though I am getting better at it over time). If someone can tell me something along the lines "well, that one sounds like a couple of 1 octave detuned oscillators through a Jupiter-like Filter at high cutoff freq and almost zero resonance" I'll be a happy camper, for the hardest part for me is to pick up the basic structure from just listening to the original recorded sound.

 

I am building these sounds on an Alesis Micron. If anyone wants to contribute, all you have to do is click on the links below, which will lead you to Rapid Share page (a German free hosting website), where you scroll to the bottom of the page, choose the Free Download option and get the short MP3 snippets of the originals I posted there.

 

Here are the links and comments:

 

1) ELP's "From The Beginning" synth solo patch, most likely done on a Moog with lots of Resonance on the LP filter, but with a superposition of high and bottom frequencies that I can't seem to nail. the link for the MP3 is

 

http://rapidshare.de/files/9468695/ELP.mp3.html

 

2) Police's Synchronicity II opening filter sweep, which seems deceptively easy. Sounds a lot like guitar feedback, but I think it is a synth sound with lots of Resonance. The link is

 

http://rapidshare.de/files/9468782/Synchronicity_II_Part_1.mp3.html

 

3) Same song, in the part featuring a swelling pad that starts as a rumble and ends up in a beautiful A chord. The link is

 

http://rapidshare.de/files/9468891/Synchronicity_II_Part_2.mp3.html

 

4) "Is There Something I Should Know" by Duran Duran, featuring a certain FM-ish EP/horn sound which I have no clue about. The link is

 

http://rapidshare.de/files/9468976/Duran_Duran.mp3.html

 

Any help will be much appreciated

[mate stubb]

From the beginning - 2 square waves, tuned 2 or 3 octaves apart. Add a touch of glide, filter to suit.

[Tusker]

Andre, I'll take a shot at the Police bits, though I don't have a synth in front of me to try these out. I'll go fool around with one later.

 

Synchronicity 1 - It's a rapid pitch sweep downward. (Pitch envelope modulating the oscillator downward from a high pitch to a low pitch) I also think the same envelope is modulating a high pass filter, whose final cutoff is below the fundamental or near it. The blap part of the sound seems to be a pretty resonant HPF to me.

 

Synchronicity 2 - I dunno that this is one instrument. I hear distinct bits, crossrfaded during mixdown, perhaps. During the upward sweep I hear white noise creating the rumble, which gets brighter as the LPF opens up. After the sound opens up, I hear a pad and a high string line. If you wanted to do this live, I would turn the rumble into the pad with a controller, rather than turning it into the string line which is rather high. That way any oddities will be masked by the mid-range instruments.

 

If you had a synth that can do morphs, you want to end up with a couple of detuned saws into a fairly warm LPF filter. You want to start with white noise into a closed LPF and open it up for the rumble. You would be fading out the white noise as the filter is opening and the saws are coming into the mix. Easily done on a synth with two morph scenes, a little more involved, if you have to set up each mod routing ... but not impossible. The issue is that it's non-linear. So I would have one knob/slider controlling the cutoff, and another crossfading the saws and noise.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Jerry

[Andre Lower]

Originally posted by mate_stubb:

From the beginning - 2 square waves, tuned 2 or 3 octaves apart. Add a touch of glide, filter to suit.

Well as usual you guys are solid rock when it comes to helping. God bless your generosity.

 

Mate, I'll try your approach to "From the Beginning' right away and get back to you.

 

Jerry, some comments on your pointers:

 

1) Synchronicity 1 - If I got you right, you mean I should apply the pitch envelope to this oscillator itself, and then apply the same envelope "shape" to modulate the Cutoff frequency of an HP filter which is applied to this very same oscillator. Am I missing anything or is that what you had in mind? Furthermore, what you call the "blap" part of the sound are those occasional short bursts of noise that sound like a half-muted guitar strum and can be heard along the path of the synth sweep, right?

 

2) Synchronicity 2 - I understood what you meant, and will try it out. The Micron does not have morphs, but I can easily stack more than one patch together, like patch one being the rumble fading out, patch two being the pad fading in and patch three being the string chord fading in. It's all a matter of synchronizing the volume envelopes properly, and I've done something similar before for my "Tom Sawyer" opening sweep.

 

Anyway, I'll work on it and let you guys know how I fared.

 

Now let's see if anyone has a clue on the Duran Duran FM-ish EP/horn sound. I am afraid this is the hardest one to nail, and if it is really an FM thing I'll be as lost as I can get ...

[Tusker]

Originally posted by Andre Lower:

Am I missing anything or is that what you had in mind? Furthermore, what you call the "blap" part of the sound are those occasional short bursts of noise that sound like a half-muted guitar strum and can be heard along the path of the synth sweep, right?

No you got it. I'd use a saw wave through a resonant HPF with the same envelope as the pitch. The blap (or tweoo) caused by the envelope can be heard in second 1 and second 6 of the audio file. There also appears to be a slow lfo modulating pitch ... or you can use the pitch wheel.

 

Originally posted by Andre Lower:

Now let's see if anyone has a clue on the Duran Duran FM-ish EP/horn sound. I am afraid this is the hardest one to nail, and if it is really an FM thing I'll be as lost as I can get ...

I don't think it's an fm thing. I should think it's one of those hybrid synths like the poly 800. If I was doing it on the Ion, I would start with a couple of detuned pulse waves, through a fairly open filter (maybe 12db/octave LPF?) ... not resonant. I would modulate the pulse widths of the oscillators slightly with the same fast-decay envelope used for the filter. Hopefully that would give the blippy quality but retain the open sound, as the filter is remaining pretty open. The blip can be enhanced by having a similar decay response on the amp envelope.

 

I'm hearing only the harmonic partials, so I would leave Fm and Sync techniques out of it. At least that's where I would start. All the best,

 

Jerry

[Synthguy]

Andre, Mate covered the ELP Moog lead so I'll discuss the other two.

 

The first Synchronicity track is probably done by Andy Summers doing a sustained note on guitar, and starting the multitrack recorder off with the tape paused against the heads. You get that wild "snap to pitch" sound which was used several times by different bands back when we recorded to tape.

 

You can do the same thing with a synth easily enough. Like Jerry says, create an envelope with instantaneous attack and quick decay, and send it to all the oscillators that sound. Send the patch through a distortion effect. Tune the oscillators to unison or they will have a weird beat effect in the distortion. The best way to do this authentically is have the guitar player swell in a sustained lead in pitch with the synth and do some subtle bending and adding in harmonics. If you want to do this yourself, then see if you can program a patch that has a silent oscillator at zero volume tuned an octave and a half up from the others, 17 semitones. Set up a modulation with either a wheel, pedal or something to increase the volume, and add this in a bit for some guitar-like feedback. The basic patch sounds like a saw-squarish mix, square-pulse set between 40-50%, 50 being a square wave. I'd do no modulation on the filter, make it lowpass, maybe 12db, set the cutoff and resonance to taste.

 

The second Synchronicity patch is a basic string synth type of sound, with lightly filtered detuned sawtooth waves sent through a chorus. I'd try a 12db filter again with little or no resonance. Sting does a massive pitch bend from a few octaves down. Oscillators set to the same pitch.

 

The Duran Duran "fm horn" patch is much more like a Jupiter piano patch. Sawtooth or saw/rectangle, pulse width set somewhere between 20-40%. Two oscillators at the same pitch, slightly detuned and chorused. Filter set fairly low and modulated by the envelope till you get a brighter percussive attack that mellows out fairly quickly. Zero attack, perhaps 1 second or less decay, sustain set to taste, very quick release, 0.25 secs or less.

 

And sorry Jerry, didn't notice the above post's second half, don't want tostep on your toes or anything.

[Andre Lower]

Thanks Sir Basil, Jerry and Mate. I'm preparing to go on a two week long holiday in which I'm taking my rig along. Plenty of time to reach for these ...Right now I only have the ELP one in a yet-to-be-polished state. Your pointers are sure to help a lot, as usual. As soon as I have the others I'll get back to you.

 

You guys are wonderful!