piano headaches

[Napster]

Hi everyone,

I am new to this or any other forum so I don't know if this topic has been discussed before but my problem is after more than 25 years of playing piano keyboards, I have had to take several months off from playing gigs or even practicing because of physical problems. I have developed horrible headaches as a result of neck and shoulder problems that resulted from poor posture playing piano. I have seen a couple of doctors, but haven't seen much progress. I decided to quit playing altogether, and see what happens. I sold all of my professional equipment, but really miss it and am thinking of getting a new keyboard (Kawai ES4) to at least practice at home for short periods of time. I was wondering if anybody else out there has had any similar problems, and what you did about it. Any ideas would be appreciated because I still have a passion for playing just as I know you all do.

Thanks,

Napster

[gangsu]

If you wear glasses (and are getting on in years ) have a pair made up specifically for that 2' distance to the score. Poor posture could be the result of trying to see....?

[Dreamer]

...also check the distance between keys and shoulders and keys and floor. Ideally you should sit on an adjustable stool (or chair) with a good support for your back, and the keyboard should rest on an adjustable stand. The chair, to me, is the most important factor, just like when you are typing at a computer.

[Napster]

Good points, Gangsu and Dreamer.

I did see an eye specialist and got the glasses since I was working with a singer I hadn't worked with before and was trying to read her charts with bifocals. Using different glasses did help to some extent. I think the problem is that when playing I lapse into old poor posture habits even when I am not reading charts. I played solo gigs where I wasn't reading

 

Dreamer,

I have been usually using my portable keyboard bench which is adjustable but no support for the back. Is there something out there that you know of that would work both at home and if I ever can start gigging again?

 

Thank you for your help. My first keyboard was a Kurzweil K1000 which tells you how long I have been at this. BTW, I loved that board, but it broke down after a number of years, JUST LIKE ME!

[CraigT]

When I was in my mid-twenties I started having severe problems with my hands to the point where I was in constant pain and it was difficult to do simple things like turn a door handle. The major culprit was my piano/keyboard playing. I did take some extended time off and also addressed other issues that contribute to the problem. Posture can be helped with exercise such as weights or yoga. A doctor or physical therapist might help you start a regimine that addresses your particular needs. What you eat or certain foods can affect you in ways you're not aware - this can get into psuedo-medicine but it was very helpful for me to explore diet. If conventional medicine is at a loss do as much research as you can on your own and also consider alternative medicine. Ultimately we all have some physical limitations and sometimes they prevent us from doing things we love. This sucks. But in many cases with perserveranve and patience these limitations can be overcome.

[K K]

I suggest you go see a doctor specialized in ergonomics, which has already treated musicians. It could be a orthotherapist, kinesiologist, etc.

 

Headaches can be linked to numerous factors. If your headaches are accompanied by eye pain beginning on only one side, it's generally linked to an eye problem : at some point, your dominant eye gets too tired and sends an alarm signal to your brain by means of a strong headache. To find your dominant eye, look at a text covering one eye and looking with the other. The text that's clearer is given by your dominant eye.

 

Otherwise, it could be linked to muscle fatigue (as you say, shoulders and neck). One good treatment for this that most orthotherapists would suggest is to do a series of exercises for contrary motion against your bad posture. You have to do those exercises a number of times a day, especially when pain occurs.

 

That's how I could win against a terrible shoulder problem a couple of years ago (which was not linked to piano playing though, but to computer use).

 

Other factors to verify : your position at the piano. Are your elbows the same height as the keys, higher or lower, etc. I suppose you already know those simple rules, but they are very important when you work manny hours a day on a piano.

[acctjm]

For jams and rock gigs I usually play standing up. If I play a lot of organ (blues gigs), I'm spending most of my time balanced on my left leg, using my right foot on the volume pedal. I wake up with a headache the next day. It always runs up the back of my neck on the right side. I'm thinking of moving the volume pedal to my left foot to see what difference it makes.

 

acctjm

[ITGITC]

OK, this settles it... We're all a bunch of old farts, aren't we?

 

That's OK. I've got a lot of great memories.

 

...Now, if only I could REMEMBER THEM!

 

 

Tom

[Garrafon]

I find that all my headaches are caused by the drummer

[Dreamer]

Originally posted by Napster:

Dreamer,

I have been usually using my portable keyboard bench which is adjustable but no support for the back. Is there something out there that you know of that would work both at home and if I ever can start gigging again?

Napster,

I have find that what works for computers works for keyboards as well; so, since music shops have just your ordinary (wooden) piano bench or stool, I suggest that you go in a shop that sells office furniture and choose a chair/armchair with wheels, adjustable in height and with the most comfortable back you can find (but not too soft).

This might be umpractical for gigging, but should solve the problem of playing at home.

AFAIK, giggins musicians tend to use stools or thrones (just like drummers); they are good for a couple of hours of playing, but would do nothing for your actual problem (they could even exacerbate it).

[Dreamer]

I have done a search and came up with a few links that can be of interest:

 

Office depot chairs

 

Quiklock stools for gigging musicians

 

Tama Sumo Drum Throne

 

Gas lift seat with back

 

Soundseat.com

[Napster]

Hey Gas,

You're right, I definitely qualify for old fartdom. If I get this new keyboard, it may kill me but I will be HAPPY playing the FINAL chord. Anyway I'm not quite ready to go yet, so I appreciate all of the posts and will take the advice. Although I am a low tech kind of guy, I hope I will be able to add something to this forum to help someone else in the future.

Thanks,

Napster

[Clavinovaguyusa]

I spent the big bucks on an adjustable padded concert bench for my grand and love it. Ergonomics have been mentioned. Also, you should consider lighting: is the music lit properly? Is there glare on your glasses if you wear them?

Is the instrument too loud for sustained playing?

Is the instrument emitting high frequency noise or distortion that could be bothering you? (very good analyzer is needed to find that out)

Are you getting enough sleep?

Is your day job causing stress on you that is just aggrevated when you sit down to play?

Is their mold on a nearby window or in a nearby bathroom?

[David Loving]

Play different music. Maybe the stuff you were playing was giving you headaches! Seriously all this advice is good - get checked out by a doctor - sinuses, light sensitivity, hearing, eyesight, allergies. Take better care of yourself; get in shape. Sit up straight, get your playing position and technique looked at, get the right bench...etc etc. Get back to work!

[Napster]

Daviel,

You're right, especially your last sentence about getting back to work. I think recently I have been focusing more on the problem, and less on the solution. You all have inspired me to get moving and quit feeling sorry for myself. I sold my keyboard because someone was interested in it and I was frustrated. I have started looking again in the last few days and will be playing the Kawai ES4 when it comes in to a local music store. We'll see, but it sounds promising since it has speakers for home use, but also I think it could be used for gigs if I can go back to that.

I'm really glad I joined this forum and got up the nerve to post about this problem. I wasn't sure if this was an appropriate topic for discussion on a keyboard forum.

Thanks,

Napster

[BluesKeys]

Welcome, Napster we need more old farts around here. As one who just joined up this year I've found a great group of folks.

 

I had a similar problem brought on by a car accident. I have a Chiropractor/kinesiologist who worked wonders with my neck and sholders. The fixed me up with a tool to straighten out things on my own. It is a piece of styrofoam 12"long by 6" wide and is half moon shaped. When I lay in bed with it under my spine it reverses the posture I have been in while playing. It's about balancing your body and has worked wonders for me.

 

You have gotten some great advice here from others I hope you find a solution.

[humannoyed]

Definitely get an adjustable chair with a backrest. I got a used office desk chair that works great for me.

 

Also back limbering exercises have helped me more than I can tell you and I highly recommend them for anyone with back tension. I do windmills in both directions every night before bed time.

Takes only 5 minutes - just try it and see if it helps.

[David Loving]

Waytago, Napster. Your topic is most appropriate and I am glad you are here. Welcome. I laid off about 5-6 years once because of school and a new 'career' that I thought were more important. Boy, was I wrong. Almost drove me insane and I didn't even know what was wrong. It's like swimming upstream constantly. Stupidest thing I ever did. Self-pity always makes it worse for me. Try to think of all the good things you have to be grateful for like your good musical background, your talent, the new instrument, and on and on. Bst thing I ever did was get back to practicing and playing. You know what I mean!

[delirium]

it strange but headaches are among those things playing piano always helped me to get rid off...

 

But if you sit in bad position, that might be a reason. I suggest lay down or hang yourself over

to enforce proper position )))

[JeffLearman]

My understanding is that you're better off without a backrest, from the point of view of spinal health and posture. But don't remind me of that when you see me slouching at my computer.

 

Also, consider seeing a good piano teacher. Not instead of medical expertise, of course. But proper playing posture is the kind of thing a good teacher should teach. Now, how to find a good piano teacher -- I can't help you there.

[shakeyeraz]

I see that we're been talking about pianos and keyboards but... My B3 gives me severe neck problems when I play for 1.5-2 hours straight. I use the B3 bench and have tried it with and without the pedals in place; better without but still not good. Anyone have a thought or experience on this to share?

 

BTW - For gigs, I just use a high stool and set stands depending upon whether I have one or two 'boards with me - never is a problem. (My B/122 always stay home)

[delirium]

I found some article that can be of some help here:

http://www.musicandhealth.co.uk/stress.html

 

lots about stress in playing piano etc.

[Napster]

delirium,

I read that article and that certainly was helpful, especially the parts about technique and a practice regimen. I think this article may also be helpful for pianists who don't have any physical problems right now since it spells out how not to get yourself in this situation that I find myself.

Learjeff,

Finding a piano teacher who could give me some pointers on proper technique would also be helpful. It's been a long time since I had lessons, and I don't remember much about my teachers saying too much about posture.

Shakeyeraz,

I did give some thought about playing standing up or using a high stool, but never tried it. Maybe it's time I did!

You folks are THE BEST!

Napster

[Clavinovaguyusa]

Shakeyeraz, I have followed some organists forums. I have heard some things about getting balance at the organ bench. One of the recommendations was to tie your legs together above the knees. You can use a loose fitting belt to keep them together. Practice your balance and pedalling technique like that. Just don't fall off the bench.

 

Has anyone heard of that before?

[JeffLearman]

Back in high school, I dated some girls who used that technique, although they didn't play hammond.

[BluesKeys]

learjeff, I bet they never even touched the organ. hehehe

[JeffLearman]

...

[Napster]

Well, with all of your help, I now have the proper mindset and a definite plan on how to get back to playing again. The only problem is, as I mentioned earlier, is that I sold both by keyboard as well as my sound system. I am fired up now to find a new keyboard. I think you all call that GAS. To an oldtimer like me, that had an entirely different meaning. So I think I am ready to start a new thread concerning opinions about portable digital pianos. I can hear the collective cringing out there about yet another one of this type of question, but I am looking for something very definite concerning acoustic piano sounds.

Thanks to all,

Napster

[BluesKeys]

Napster, I suggest you go play them. Everyone here will have a different opinion of each board. You need to know first hand. For a list of which boards just do a search of the forum.

 

post386?

[Napster]

Dream,

I know that the ultimate decision concerning sounds and action will be mine after playing the keyboard, but the problem is I am an old Kurzweil guy (K1000) and might be looking for a keyboard that is really not manufactured these days. By that I mean that I am looking for more of a less bright acoustic piano sound as well as a really good acoustic bass sound for splitting the keyboard, which I may be forced to do if I can gig again. I've tried some of the usual cast of characters (Yamaha, Roland, Korg) Maybe it's just me, put I have had problems with the newer triple strike, triple velocity layered samples for the type of quiet dinner music I usually play (standards and jazz) I was wondering if there was an alternative by looking into harder to find brands (Kawai and GEM) to see if anyone could give me advice once my needs and taste are known to others on this forum. I might be on the right track with some new Kawai boards, and actually have found a couple of dealers fairly close to me. I still have an open mind about others though, and thought maybe someone who has played these newer boards could give me their opinion. Since I am new to being a part of this or any other forum, if you think I would just be giving everyone another headache with this kind of post, I'll try a different direction. I don't mean this in a snide or sarcastic way, but just an honest question.

Thanks,

Napster